WinSPPWW2 Large caliber Anti Aircarft
 

I need someone to help me. When I choose large caliber Anti aircraft guns (88MM Flak for the Germans or 85MM for the Soviets) the will not shoot at the enemy aircraft-only enemy tanks. What is wrong? I even checked the configuration and it is the same as the small caliber (37MM and 20MM Flak guns). The small caliber weapons work fine and fire at both armoured fighting vehicles as well as the aircraft.

Re: WinSPPWW2 Large caliber Anti Aircarft
 

All large caliber AA Guns were changed to AT Roles only. The Large AAA doesn't fit the scale of the game.
This question should be in the general SPWWII Forum.

Prosit!

Re: WinSPPWW2 Large caliber Anti Aircarft
 

Even the dual-purpose guns weren't so easy to change stance from AA to AT fire at moment's notice - all large-caliber DP guns are in game as direct-fire only, ie no AAA (in some cases they were used also for indirect, for example at Anzio there was unusually high number of deployed 88's, many of them as field guns for indirect fire).

Re: WinSPPWW2 Large caliber Anti Aircarft
 

so to everyones knowledge there is no way to, for example, to buy German 88's or Soviet 85MM which serve strictly as AAA guns?

Re: WinSPPWW2 Large caliber Anti Aircarft
 

correct. Had too slow traverse to catch those tree-hugging jabos http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: WinSPPWW2 Large caliber Anti Aircarft
 

Peeps were flying aircraft in the earlier designs to cause the 88s AA guns to fire so they could destroy them with their arty fire. This was making the 88s virtually useless. At least, that is the way I remember it.

Re: WinSPPWW2 Large caliber Anti Aircarft
 

Hi Marek
Actually they can catch the tree hugging Jabbos. If the jabbo is travelling perpendicular to the 88 at say a kilometer distance then the guns traverse is quite fast enough to keep up. There is certainly plenty of footage of 88s shooting down sturmovics.
Also AAA 88s do fit the scale of the game. If they were given AAA they would be the antidote for 'level' bombers.
Best Regards Chuck.

Re: WinSPPWW2 Large caliber Anti Aircarft
 

No doubt 88 can at favorable circumstances plink at Jabo's... But it has to be ready for them. And it would hardly be ready for Jabos if it's in ambush position against tanks. And vice versa.

Re: WinSPPWW2 Large caliber Anti Aircarft
 

Maybe I'm a bit thick, but is there anything new in this thread that hasn't been discussed to death before?

EDIT

Yup - here it is:
See Mobhack's post at the end.
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...mp;Main=452430

Re: WinSPPWW2 Large caliber Anti Aircarft
 

Fraid there isn't http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Disappearing from the thread http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: WinSPPWW2 Large caliber Anti Aircarft
 

Hi Marek
If by vice a versa you mean that jabbos wont be ready for an 88 in a tank ambush position then your wrong, in the game jabbos can hit 88s in rough or wooded hexes, ie "ambush" positions.
If vice versa means 88s in AAA role anrnt ready for tanks then obviously this also is wrong.
Best regards Chuck.

Re: WinSPPWW2 Large caliber Anti Aircarft
 

Hi Starmyth
This has been fixed recently the AA range used to be uneffected by the range setting I believe it now is. So setting range to say 1 hex will give you AA that will ignore aircraft but be ready to engage ground targets (under you control not the AIs). The AA range can be reset at any time if you wish for the AA to engage planes. If 88s were given AA ability this sort of range stting would protect them to some extent. But then people would probably want the UK 3.7 and US 90mm in game in the AA role also. You then have the problem that they would used for direct fire which they wernt (Im sure there is one exception somewhere). The allies had plenty of much cheaper low profile AT and tank destroyers available. 3.7 and 90 could be included in the game in the AA role if they -wernt- given direct fire ability. Everyone (The big players anyway) would then be have some weapons that could take on level bombers. The maps are getting quite big after all. If the change suggested in my thread "Artillery Plotting" were put in place then it would also take much longer to silence rear area (not in view) AA such as the 88 with artillery. encourageing there deployment as such.
Best Regards Chuck.

Re: WinSPPWW2 Large caliber Anti Aircarft
 

I've replied to his post there, but I'll reproduce them here.

3.7 HAA guns SHOULD be in the British Staff Tables (TO&E for those using Yank Military speak). They were a standard unit of the British AGRAS and were placed at the Corps level. If the 5.5 and 4.5 BL type guns are included, so should the 3.7 HAA gun.

Direct fire sights WERE fitted a as a standard component on SOME mounts. There are photos of 3.7 HAA gun crews firing the guns at practice targets at Malta. The Fittings are clearly purpose built. You'll note that the 88 has the Traverse and Elevation crewman facing the gun mount to the side of the gun mount (facing the trunnion side from the left). Under director control they did this and under direct fire control they did this, that's where the controls were. Adjustments MUST be commanded by the Gun Captain. The 3.7 has the T and E crewman sitting in seats facing the Directer dials with their backs to the target. BUT, when under direct fire control they move around to the other side of the director dial and can still reach their T and E controls (not wheels, but two handles fitted like a sort of bicycle pedal arrangement (look at a 40mm Bofors).

Direct fire shoots were RARE early on in the war. The Tobruk example is one. In one case a Tiger unit was able to penetrate british lines back to the area of where a 3.7 HAA unit was still setup, they did NOT survive the encounter. The 3.7 Vickers gun outranged the Tigers and the battery was able to dispatch them completely.

Later on, prepatory to D-Day, various units conducted direct fire shoots AND the mounts along the coast of England also had Direct fire sites fitted for both AA defense AND for surface defense.

The final MK VI mounting WAS too big for mobile use however mobile mounts were used in mobile form earlier on. There were multiple types of mounts for mobile and fixed use with inland fixed mounts not having the direct fire sights (or left in units stores).

The next interesting thing that's missing is that the 3.7 guns that DID go to Normandy were in fact MORE used for indirect fire roles than direct or AAA roles. Why? They could fire under director control, had a VERY good time fuze system that could be set preceisely and FAST allowing airbursts with a more substantial rate of fire than other artillery could effect (fixed ammunition, automatic fuze setting on the gun mount, a higher rate of fire as designed and in some mounts, a power rammer).

The reason we don't hear about very many 3.7 HAA engagements against german ground forces is because the size of the 3.7 mandated that it was treated as a weapon for the AGRAs and NOT to be pushed down to the lower front line battalions. The range that they had also meant (They're guns of course) that to engage indirect targets, they're NOT going to be near the front line. Since they were to the rear, they didn't see themselves confronted by local german heavy counter attacks AND the germans never had any breakthroughs into British rears in teh later part of the war, more or less being on the defensive most of the time. We don't see them in North Africa much, because in the early part of the war, North Africa was the red headed stepchild to British forces deployments, defense of the home front had priority.

Re: WinSPPWW2 Large caliber Anti Aircarft
 

[quote=chuckfourth;571175]Hi Starmyth
This has been fixed recently the AA range used to be uneffected by the range setting I believe it now is. So setting range to say 1 hex will give you AA that will ignore aircraft but be ready to engage ground targets (under you control not the AIs). The AA range can be reset at any time if you wish for the AA to engage planes. If 88s were given AA ability this sort of range stting would protect them to some extent. But then people would probably want the UK 3.7 and US 90mm in game in the AA role also. You then have the problem that they would used for direct fire which they wernt (Im sure there is one exception somewhere).[quote]

See above, they were capable, but as a corps asset, it didnt' happen very often. There were more than a few batteies in Egypt over towards Cairo, had the germans gotten that far, they'd have met them. One example a freind researched saw the Canadians doing their HAA drills, on ice, in northen Canada on their training ranges, some of their shoots were direct fire. There's a spectacular night shot of a 3.7 firing at a very low depression with the gun illuminated by the muzzel flash and you can just see the stakes used to anchor the gun on the ice/snow.

As a corps level asset (or higer), they should be expensive and unexpected to see on the actual battle map. Just like putting 5.5 inch and 4.5 inch BL guns, 155mm gun, 7.2 inch howitzer, 8 inch gun and the 240mm gun.