Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too easy!
 

So, I took my best hero (39 HP) gave him the Obsidian Armor, Black Plate Helmet, a ring of regeneration, anti-magic amulet, the multi-spectral sword, and the Druid Boots that keep you from getting tired. I sent him off to wipe out a small group of lizard dudes (I think there were 30 of them and a priest). He got killed! From the description of the Obsidian armor and the ring of regen, it seem to me he should have been getting HP back every turn, but this did not seem to happen. What am I doing wrong? Note: The Sword was highly effective and I was not taking damage from using it.

Re: Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too easy!
 

My standard SC in singleplayer is a Wraith Lord with:

Spirit Helm
Boots of Quickness
Luck item (Faithful or Pendant of Luck)
An AE sword like a Fire Brand helps too.

Script Soul Vortex -> Attack Rear. The cold aura and the soul vortex wipes out most everything in single player. From there you can develop your own guy. Examples:

Air 4 unit with ring of tamed lightning and some air gems.
Script Wrathful Skies -> Eat Sandwich.

An earth magic SC can wear a ring of regeneration and some defense gear and spam earthquake.

From my brief experience it sounds like your defense keeps going down every time you get attacked in the same combat round, so if you get swarmed you can still die. AE damage is the key. And of course none of this stuff by itself works in MP, but I'm sure that's not an issue for you at this point.

Re: Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too easy!
 

Check out the 'Looking for SC pointers' thread. Should be helpful.

Re: Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too ea
 

It does indeed. -2 DEF for every previous melee attack in the same round, I believe. Beware Mandragora...

In addition, most die rolls -- including most damage rolls -- are open-ended, meaning it's theoretically possible for any one hit to do tremendous amounts of damage. In addition, afflictions can quickly reduce your survival odds; blindness, in particular, drops att/def/prec to 0 on most units.

Prot is useful against many attacks (again, beware sleep vines!). Damage shields are handy... The Aegis is -very- nasty, because it can kill enemies before they even make a hit roll against you.

Re: Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too ea
 

Sounds like
1) Obsidian Armor gives very very low defence (but great protection)
2) you attacked independants that get extra attacks, meaning that basically every attack hit.

my advise: Add a pendent of luck, lucky coin sheild, or lucky (the sword). and most importantly, get rid of that mudane helmet and give him a wraith crown. The combination of ethereal and lucky should not be underestimated.


Also synergize your hero's magic with his equipment. If you have earth 2 you don't need heavy armor, have him cast summon earth power > invonerablilty >then attack. If you have astral you can cast body ethereal and personal luck so you can use those extra item slots for other stuff. almost every path has some spell good for buffing SCs. even mossbody is fun.

The ideal SC for me would be a seraph with the mage bane, aegis, crown of Amon Hotep,bone armor, boots of driud guy, the Ark , and Krupps bracers.

That would be impossible to do in am MP game, and if you managed you have already won.

Re: Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too ea
 

Just to suggest a few tweaks to that build.

In SP, mr isn't really needed. Replace the amulet with the luck pendant. That cuts the attacks that hit in half.

Otherwise he doesn't look to bad. 39 hps is low to solo. You don't get a lot of regen and and a few lucky hits can take you out or at least cripple you.
Check the fight more closely. Did he get fatigued? Was he cursed? (Up against indy lizards he probably was. Avoid SCs versus lizards) Did he get crippling afflictions.

In addition to the damage shield suggestion, fear is really good. Replace that helmet with a Horror Helmet, watch the lizards run away.

Re: Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too ea
 

You need to tell us the chassis of your hero.

If lifeless, then regen will not work, I believe. On the other hand, the undead have melee encumberance capped at zero, so reinvig is not necessary except in certain situations.

Re: Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too ea
 

He was a Marvari Canute Leader (not sure about the spelling, the druid dudes), the most expensive one you can buy (travels on foot.) I would like to point out that you can't carry a shield when using the multi-color sword because it's a two-handed weapon. Also, do magic items stack their abilities? Would two lucky items make someone luckier than one? Or two regenerating items?

Re: Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too ea
 

Luck doesn't stack. You are either lucky or not.

Two different regen items should stack. (Or native regeneration, bless regen, or a spell)
Two of the same item do not stack. (Except, due to code weirdness, if they are not next to each other, which needs 3+ slots of the same type.)

Re: Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too ea
 

He got fatigued and die. Now, take those same items and summon up a Golem and give to it. The golem wont get tired. Take away the regenerating ring and the helmet and give it Starshine helmet and amulet of reinvigoration. Take away the boots and give it boots of quickness. Script etherealness/luck/hold/hold attack. Casting those 2 spells will put you at about 50 fatigue but once you its fighting its fatigue will go down due to the amulet of reinvigoration.

Re: Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too ea
 

Something to note. Almost all thugs and SCs are built out of summoned creatures, not recruitables. One notable exception is the EA frost giant's 500 gp neifehelm dude. I can't remember his name, but they are great thugs/SCs out of the box. They have good magic paths, defense, protection, and hitpoints. They're also sacred, and since this race tends to use a nice bless that's just more "free" gear they get that neither takes up a slot nor requires it to be built.

Jazzepi

Re: Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too ea
 

No you have not http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif. A few life for a life will kill the seraph easily. Or simply infernal prison and he is gone for many turns. When he is out, just throw him in again.

Re: Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too easy!
 

Sending a thug or SC to fight the lizard 'dudes' is a bad idea because the leader of the independents has 1nature and 1astral and usually starts casting CURSE. Stay away from the lizards with SCs unless the SC is already cursed.

Re: Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too ea
 

True enough. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif
What i meant was that if you have the resources to create all those artifacts before all the other players and you have a seraph your gold. Not that teh Seraph would win you the game, though it won't hurt.

Re: Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too ea
 

Fomoria,yomi,abysia and surely several over factions have a SC with minimal equipment(in EA). Someone able to clean the battlefield, whether by magic, or in a more mundane manner, is to be called a SC.Or a Super Mage ?

Re: Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too ea
 

Generally only those who go into hand to hand, or at least can survive it.

An Air mage may be able to destroy an army with Storm and Wrathful Skies, but get a few of them close to him and he's dead. That doesn't qualify in my book.

Now an equipped F9 Titan who does most of his damage with Falling Fires rather than a sword, but is quite comfortable standing in a horde of enemy chaff while doing so, would qualify.

For recruitables, Neifel Jarls, Dai Oni, Fomorian Kings, Mind Lords, Basalt Kings, maybe Eagle Kings? I'm sure there are others. Mostly only with a good bless and some research, though.

Re: Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too ea
 

For my little experience of dominions game, I would suggest you to always give bodyguard to your SC. Choose your bodyguard wisely, they make the perfect wall you need for your SC to don't be target of cursed or any other scary spell.

SC are generally a lot of money, gem and turn invest before they can wage war. Sending them alone for me, is a waste of resources.

I never send a SC without proper priest, spell caster (buffer) and bodyguards. Most of the time, I prefer to back them up with 50-100 indies archer.

Recruiting some bodyguard is not really costly (10-20 nice good protection unit with great shield for arrow) and will give a better time in your fight. It seems to have a bug, whe you got too many unit on guard commander. The commander simply don't move... it look like a freaking lame. I had find that having 7 bodyguard per group is nice. I can put to 3 groups of 7 troops in guard commander mode.

By the way, I am not sure a 39 hit point guy could be named SC. It's more a thug that is used around to express mini-SC. And nobody send their thug alone.

And like a lot of people said: LUCK is really important. To forge some luck item, you need 1 astral minimum for the pendant. You can put luck with either: A Short Sword, a Shield or a pendant. (depends on your construction level and astral path)

To raise survivability:

Fear (Horror Mask) - Luck - Awe (Gleaming Shield) - Petrification (Stone Sword - Aegis) - Etherability (spelling? -> Robe of Shadows - Wraith Crown) - Invulnerability (Robe of invulnerabilities) - Missile shield (depends on circumstance)

prot > 20
defense > 20

Quickness is a key of success... more attack, and speedy on combat map, so a lot more of hit made.

AoE damage to do a lot more hit. Killing 6 chaff on a square, is 6 less chance to be knock down.

Before mid game, I tend to used Bane Lord (Cheaper than wraith lord and conj 7 is long, conj 5 is possible quick) with Frost Brand or Shadow Brand or Fire Brand (depends on mage avail) - Gleaming Shield - Horror Mask - Chainmail of displacement (the best defense/protection ratio I did find on my magic path) - Boot of Quickness - Pendant of Luck - Amulet of Antimagic.

Mid game and more, Wraith Lord are really nice because of their Soul Vortex (drain life/fatigue AOE?), they are simply undestructible.

Surely construction 4 is a must and even that is not enough. Go to construction 6 and look at those nifty items. Then try to have some mage of every path possible. (indy mage recruit) In late-game, your indie mage should have been empower properly to create the items you need to outfit your SC, in the SC war.

Jourdelune

Re: Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too ea
 

"For my little experience of dominions game, I would suggest you to always give bodyguard to your SC."

IMHO this just slows them down and causes them to rout. If your worried send two SCs

Re: Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too ea
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif It work well with good morale unit (undead - lifeless) or berserk one.

I had should said it of course, but I am biased because I play pangaea a lot. Centaur Warrior make nice bodyguards for their price. And their speed... are better than the Lord of the Wild even with longstride boots.

Even if the Pretender is flying and their bodyguard don't, the bodyguard will rejoin it later.

What can slow down SC is a lot of chaff in their way, so they can't enter combat. But with good starting position, it could be made without a prob.

For Indies, I am sure 1 SC normally fit could win hand down. Give him a 10-20 bodyguards, it will be safely. But in face of a larger force, I am always happy to have my SC back with spell caster and more than 10-20 bodyguard.

Jourdelune

Re: Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too ea
 

I personally like spectral mages for thug chassis, at the very least. Depending on their picks, they can cast different buffs (iron skin is good here), and maybe carry a shield or armor into combat, which makes them very potent with lifedrain, and if they have a passive damage item, such as a charcoal shield, they can take out indefinite amounts of chaff.

Re: Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too ea
 

I think bodyguards for SC's is asking for trouble. If the bodyguards get killed, the SC might rout.

I'm can't say this for sure, but I have sent small quantities of troops with a thug (not as bodyguards)and watched my thug retreat once or twice when these troops were slain. I discontinued the practice.

Re: Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too ea
 

Yep, if you lose 75% of your men on the battlefield, the rest will run away, regardless of morale. So a morale-30 SC alone will never rout, but if he has bodyguards he will once they're slain.

Re: Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too ea
 

Army will rout when it has taken 75% in casualties, or when battle duration ends. See page 80 of the manual.

One thug and bodyguards may cause rout, but some bodyguards with several thugs could work. Say, Jotun Herses and 7 bodyguard giants. Even if all the bodyguards die/rout, it's just 70% casualties and the herses keep fighting until one of them dies.

EDIT: two bodyguards and one thug also works

Re: Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too ea
 

Could someone please define THUG vs. SC (I'm assuming SC means Single Combat)?

Re: Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too ea
 

SC is super combatant.

the simplipied version is SCs can function alone and take out entire armies.

Thugs are like SCs but weaker and they must have the support of an army (or a group of other thugs) to win. They often support armies or groups raid poorly defended provinces.

the line between SCs and thugs is a bit blurry.

Re: Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too ea
 

I played a SP game where Pythium cast Wild Hunt, and I duly got my mage/priests hunted down. The bodyguard tended to be a liability as if (when) they routed the hero also routed and died. The thugs/SCs alone tended to defeat the pack of beasties.

Re: Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too ea
 

OK, I used a Golam as an SC for three reasons: 1. They have good HP. 2. They are strong, so they do a lot of damage in combat. 3. They never run away from a battle.

Equipped with Aegis shield, Obsidian armor, Astral Skullcap, Druid Boots, Antimagic Amulet, Lucky Combat Amulet, and Frost Bane sword. Very effective. He took five provinces out by himself and died trying to storm a city on his own. It was a good experiment. I think the weak spot was his helmet. I guess you need to have some really high levels to build really good helmets.

Re: Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too ea
 

The starshine skullcap is pretty much the premier helm outside of the lightning spamming one for SC's since it gives MR. (very useful for SC's in Multi) You pretty much learned your lesson I think on why you first attempt failed. also I should point out lizard provinces are thug killers. They can also take out SC chassis without luck + ethereal very handily because of their high dmg attacks as well as curse. Lastly you should look into damage shield items such as the every popular charcoal shield and the slightly less effective Breath of winter and bone armor one.

Re: Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too ea
 

Not only do they have high damage attacks, but those lizards have 2 attacks each, which means they almost always hit once they start to swarm.

Jazzepi

Re: Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too ea
 

Sounds like your Golem took damage and you did not take the time to regen it in a lab. so when you attacked the city your hits were low. the one weakness a golem has is that it does not regenerate. You have to be in a province with a lab in it to give it its health back.

Re: Trying to build super-hero, but he dies too ea
 

The helmet was fine... I would switch out the amulet of luck since the golem can cast luck in battle.