Age of Wonders Mod
 

I - Introduction
II - An overview of the mod
III - Goals of each release
IV - Current plans for next release
V - Problems that need to be solved

All comments are welcome. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

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I - Introduction

I think that it's considered bad form to post a thread on multiple forums, but because this concerns players of multiple games, I at least hope it is appropriate to post on each of the two games� respective forums.

I am about to start making an Age of Wonders mod for the Dominions 3 engine. Age of Wonders, for those who don't already know, is a fairly low-budget turn-based strategy game made by Triumph Studios (www.triumphstudios.com). The world of Age of Wonders is based in a pseudo-Tolkien-style world, with an atmosphere (especially in the first game) that causes many of its fans to like it for this reason. Because this is a mod that will be played with Dominions, I intend to do most of the thread discussion here, but a similar thread is on the Age of Wonders Heaven forum (aow2.heavengames.com)

Of note: I am known as Beren V over there (just as Dominions took much of its inspiration from the works of H.P. Lovecraft and I created a Lovecraft-inspired name for my avatar, I created a Tolkien-inspired name for the forum whose game took Tolkien for inspiration).

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II - Overview of the Mod

This mod will be focused primarily on making Age of Wonders-inspired nations, units, and heroes playable for Dominions. There are only eighty nation slots in the game and not enough empty slots for all of the nations I plan to use, so I will have to overwrite some existing nations, but this will be done as little as I can get away with. I will be adding spells and pretenders here and there also, but it will be mainly about races and nations. This mod will be a single-age mod, with all AoW nations available in the Early Age, since I feel that most closely approximates the fantastical, wildernessy feel of the the AoW series (making everything a later age is an easy adjustment that anybody can do). This mod will also cover material from all three games of the AoW series, but whether you are playing an AoWI or AoWSM style game, or a composite of all three, can be set by allowing or disallowing whatever nations in your Dominions game.

It should be noted that in Dominions, unlike in AoW, there is no such thing as allied victory. The principal conflict of the game centers around a number of nation-ruling semi-divine beings each competing to become the one true deity, and only one of them can succeed. In order to have victorious alliances of different races such as exist in AoW, I will be creating what I call "composite nations", that is nations made up of several AoW races, as well as separate nations for each of the AoW races themselves. Heroes will be duplicated for each nation and race they belong to, which means that there can be several instances of a given hero in a single game, but only one per nation (except for spells - see below).

For example, the Keepers are an AoW faction that is composed of five different races: Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, Azracs, and Lizardmen. There will be a nation in this mod for each of these five races each standing on its own, but there will be a sixth nation that will combine elements of all of them to make the Keepers. Julia, the primary heroine of the AoW series, is an elf and is certainly loyal to her race, and will be available as a hero to the Elves. She will also be a hero of the Keepers (and some other factions as well). Each of these factions can potentially have Julia as a commander simultaneously. The same goes for Meandor, Elric, Talic, and many other AoW characters.

I would also like to make some new summoning spells that allow nations to actively summon heroes, and the Elven Keeper heroes would be available for a unique summon as well - if I can arrange that.

When I make nations, each one will be modified after an existing nation in Dominions, but with the unit descriptions re-done and some things added and rarely things taken away. I will first put them in empty nation slots so as to overwrite nothing. When I run out of these, I will put nations in slots that are reserved but still empty as of the time of the 3.10 release of Dominions (e.g. slots reserved for Gath). I will then begin overwriting existing nations that I have already based nations off of, begininning with late age nations and the proceeding backwards in age. This way, as few existing nations in Dominions will be overwritten, and those that are will have replacements present already.

Other general additions:
1. All nations will be made into functional underwater nations, even if they do not possess aquatic or amphibious units from the start. This means that they will be able to recruit underwater province defense, build underwater forts, and produce underwater troops. What they will produce will depend on the race, but it will include ships (see below).
2. I would like to include artillery. Dominions includes the option of having artillery, but it�s off-stage (it�s what the siege strength of an army represents). In AoW, artillery is also effective against troops, however, so I would like to make some artillery units that can fight on battlefields.
3. If possible, I would like to include ships. Ships are large, expensive, amphibious units and can be built in coastal/underwater forts. Flagships (ship commanders) will also have sailing and the ability to bring land-based troops into the sea. Ships require much more resources than gold, are vulnerable to lightning and fire, have superb protection, and numerous ranged and melee attacks, but suck at combat on land (they are meant for the sea). All races will have ships, some will be better at sailing than others, and a few races will have airships.

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III - Goals of each release

Version 1.0:
Nations:
Humans (from Man, the Towers of Chelms)
Azracs (from Tien'Chi, Barbarian Kings)
Lizardmen (from C'tis, Miasma)
Frostlings (from Jotonheim, Iron Woods)
Elves (from Man, Tower of Avalon)
Halflings (from Mictlan, Reign of the Lawgiver)
Dwarves (from Vanheim, arrival of Men)
High Men (from Marignon, Fiery Justice)
Dark Elves (from Machaka, Reign of Sorcerers)
Orcs (from Agartha, Ktonian Dead)
Goblins (from Shinuyama, Land of the Bakemono)
Undead (from Ermor, Ashen Empire)
Tigrans (from ???)
Draconians (from Vaettiheim, Exiled Tribes)
Syrons (from Atlantis, Frozen Sea)
Shadow Demons (from R'lyeh, Time of Aboleths)
Spells and Heroes:
All AoW1 heroes, including Julia, Elric, Meandor, Talic, Bormac, etc.
Pretenders:
Nature elemental, Yaka

Version 2.0
Nations:
Fire (from Abyssia, Children of Flame)
Water (from Oceana, Triton Kings)
Life (from Tir' na n'Og, Land of the Ever-Young)
Air (from Caelum, Eagle Kings)
Earth (from Agartha, Pale Ones)
Death (from Helheim, Dusk and Death)
Cosmos (from Tien'Chi, Spring and Autumn)
Secret (from R'lyeh, Dreamlands)
Keepers (from Kailasa, Rise of the Ape Kings)
Cult of Storms (from Lanka, Land of Demons)
Dragons (from ???)
Spells and Heroes:
Misc. heroes for respective elements
Pretenders:
The AoW2 and AoWSM Wizards

Version 3.0
Nations:
Children of Order (from Tien'Chi, Celestial Beaurocracy)
Children of War (from Ulm, Forges of Ulm)
Children of Nature (from Pangaea, Age of Bronze)
Children of Magic (from Arcocephale, Old Kingdom)
Order of the High Priests (from Arcocephale, Sibyline Guidance)
Order of the Monks (from Jomon, Human Daimyos)
Order of the Black Priests (from Ulm, Black Forest)
The Wizards' Circle (from Pythium, Emerald Empire)
The Wizards� Throne (from ??? maybe early Arcocephale?)
The Rogue Wizards (from Ermor, Broken Empire)
The Userper�s Throne (from Fomoria, Cursed Ones)
The Phobian Empire (from Marignon, Conquerers of the Sea)
Spells and Heroes:
Addition of the AoW2 and AoWSM heroes; misc, heroes
Pretenders:
Addition of the spirits of Order, War, Nature, Magic

--
IV - Current plans for next release (v.1.0)

Humans:
Prototype: Man, Towers of Chelms
Units: musketeer (musket is a ranged weapon with long range, a precision penalty, armor piercing, 20 damage, 2 rounds to reload).
Ships: destroyers, cruisers, battleships, battleship flagships, and powerful airships
Magic: paths shifted to more fire and earth, but generally similar, but some death.
Heroes: Sirdanc, Trilius, Joseph; others available through spells.
Pretenders: Access to Mother of Tuathas, possibly some others, removed.

Azracs:
Prototype: Tien�Chi, Barbrian Kings
Race: Heat preference, probably 2-3
Units: Largely unchanged, but more cavalry would be good.
Ships: cruisers, discounted destroyers
Magic: More fire, less water
Heroes: Emperor Saddac, others available through spells, one of the brothers
Pretenders: More Egyptian/Middle-Eastern pretenders; a stand-in for Yaka

Lizardmen:
Prototype: C�tis, Miasma
Units: needs an archer
Ships: giant turtles instead of ships
Magic: to the extent that it is not already present, needs water, nature, and earth
Heroes: Saal, one of the brothers,(Elric, Talic?)

Frostlings:
Prototype: Jotonheim, Iron Woods
Units: needs more Vaetti units, especially an archer and wolfrider. Yeti will replace (some) giants.
Ships: frost queens and war rafts
Magic: more air, more water. Gygjas will stay, though!
Heroes: Baibalar, Lord Thalkor, one of the brothers

Elves:
Prototype: Man, Tower of Avalon
Race: strong militias with lots of female units.
Units: longbowman will be replaced with a female equivalent. A number of Tir na n�og units will be lifted wholesale. Knight of Aldor (renamed K. of Avalon) will be female. Crone will be replaced with Tuatha Sorceress. All units will have better skills and cost more.
Ships: destroyers, cruisers; flagship dreadnaughts and carriers, very small and weak airships
Magic: more water, some astral
Heroes: Elric, Julia, Khelan, Elwyn

Halflings:
Prototype: Mictlan, Reign of the Lawgiver
Race: numerous militias, but weak
Units: largely as-is but with several Hoborg units added, plus probably a centaur or two.
Ships: large flagships that hold lots (high command), but weak combat ability
Magic: largely unchanged.
Heroes: Devon, Nyssia, Elric (?)

Dwarves:
Prototype: Vanheim, Arrival of Men
Units: more dwarf-like units, possibly taken from Agartha. Archers!
Ships: cruisers, dreadnaughts, transport airships
Magic: More fire, less blood (though not without blood, just low enough to be random)
Heroes: Bormac, etc. Possibly also Elric.

High Men:
Prototype: Marignon, Fiery Justice
Race: Like it warm (the Garden of Eden is clearly somewhere in Africa, which is tropical)
Ships: destroyers, cruisers, battleships
Units: A shortbowman as well as their crossbowman. Possibly some Pythian legionary units also.
Magic: more astral, teensy-weensy bit of nature
Heroes: Gabriel, etc.

Dark Elves:
Prototype: Machaka, Reign of Sorcerers
Race: heat preference is unnecessary (probably like cold, actually)
Units: more archers, some cavalry, including an executioner
Ships: destroyers, cruisers
Magic: Not a lot of change needed, although a modicum of water might be good.
Heroes: Meandor, Talic, Melenis

Orcs:
Prototype: Agartha, Ktonian Dead
Race: add a little bit of heat
Units: Need a cavalry, not just cave drake riders
Ships: destroyers, dreadnaughts, transport flagships
Magic: more fire�
Heroes: Gadarn, possibly Talic, misc. other leaders.

Goblins:
Prototype: Shinuyama, Land of the Bakemono
Race: likes it cool (cold 1, probably)
Units: steal some Vaettiheim units, especially the wolfrider
Ships: barges
Magic: not a whole lot of difference. Add Gygjas!
Heroes: Satar, possibly Talic

Undead:
Prototype: Ermor, Ashen Empire
Race: cold 3�
Units: add a few sacred demonic units
Ships: ghost ships (ethereal, need commanders, otherwise weak)
Magic: some earth, fire and blood, as well as death
Heroes: Inioch, Melenis, Elwyn

Tigrans:
Prototype: NEED HELP!
Race: heat 2-3
Units: again, need help. Lions!
Ships: destroyers
Magic: fire, some blood and astral
Heroes: to be included later

Draconians:
Prototype: Vaettiheim, Exiled Tribes
Units: add a few C�tissian units, possibly Coatls
Ships: nice airships, but not as strong as humans
Magic: air, fire, plus what the C�tissians have (mainly nature and astral)
Heroes: to be included later

Syrons:
Prototype: Atlantis, Frozen Sea
Units: several more magical units with shocking and magical weapons to be added
Ships: no ocean ships, but very nice airships
Magic: add lots of astral
Heroes: to be included later

Shadow Demons:
Prototype: R�lyeh, Time of Aboleths
Units: add some demonic units to on-land cities
Ships: submarines (aquatic ships with very high defense), airships that are the scourge of the game except that they are prohibitively expensive
Magic: blood and astral for on-land demon mages, but aboleths are fine as-is
Heroes: to be included later

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V � Current challenges

1. Graphics � does anybody know a good way to extract unit graphics for recoloration? I would like to base the Elven archer off of archer of Ulm Enigma of Steel, for example.

2. Ship graphics: anybody know where I can get appropriately sized pictures of ships for size-6 units? Ditto for Ballistas and such.

3. Does anybody know how to make variable unique summons, e.g. the elemental monarchs, treelords, and unique demononic summons? Also, is there any way to mod a spell that will summon both a monster and a commander simultaneously (e.g. summon Elric or Julia as a commander and have the other be a unit under them)?

4. What is a good prototype nation for the Tigrans?

5. Unit Descriptions! I need help writing all of the descriptions for the various units of each nation in-game.

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

Well, look what the wind just blew in the door! Been a long time, Beren, and a little belated welcome to the Dominions 3 forum on my part! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Be interesting to se what happens with this mod.

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

You should probably read up on the description and sprnbr too high bugs, which are the bane of mods using large numbers of units, nations, graphics etc.

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

There is another problem you will have with the graphics...


AOW graphics are tilted because the units move on a hex grid. This is hardly noticeable with the infantry units but it is very noticeable with mounted units, animals, siege engines etc. On the combat map, those units will look strange, tilted downward or upward since the game did not have a graphic set for facing straight left or right.

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

Huge AoW1 fan, also a fan of the others. Sounds like a great project.

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

Great to see a turnout! I will need some HELP for some of this, mainly unit descriptions and some of the graphics. I think it's doable from what you say, though.


I don't plan on including AoW graphics into the game - this would wreck the character of the graphics and make everything look strange. The only graphics I really plan to add will be the ships and siege engines (maybe 15 sprites there), and I will want to re-color some heroes. For instance, if I could get the images in the game to play with, I could create a very good Julia using the Tuatha Sorceress and bitmap, and I could do similar for most of the other wizards.

As an example, I'm looking at the first race right now... that's the Humans, who will be based on late age Man. Most of their units need new unit descriptions, but that's about it. The Tower Knight needs to be renamed and would like the middle age Man's knight graphic (blue coloring instead of green), but that's another in-game addition. The Magister Arcane needs to have his spheres changed to include more fire and less air. So it looks like the only units that the Humans really need are the Musketeer and the Air Galley. The Air Galley will need a new graphic, so that's one sprite (out of a hundred...). I'm not even sure that the Musketeer does; the musket is a new weapon, but the tools to make it look like they're already in the game.

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

Beren (sorry, but I've known you too long to start learning new names for you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif), since you haven't been around here for too long (as a registered member anyway), I have no idea what you already know. So I'll start with from scratch.

The first thing you need is the Dom3 DB, which gives you all the unit numbers, stats, random magic masks and a lot of other stuff. The link is in my sig. Then you're going to need the sprite collection Kristoffer released. That can be found somewhere on the forum here.

The modding manual has a lot of the other stuff you need in some of the more obscure tables (flysprites, sound samples etc) since those have not been independently documented anywhere.

The more experienced modders here (Sombre, Foodstamp, Amos, Endoperez et al) can probably give you a lot of tips on how to optimize some things and get normally unmoddable things done (copystats features prominently in that). Endo is also a pretty good hand at recoloring and modifying the sprites from the game. So you can ask them for tips.

Be sure to check the modding related bug entries in the shortlist thread on the main forum like Sombre said, since that's really going to bite you in the description department. Hard limit is 183 descriptions as of the current situation and it is currently not possible to mod descriptions separately like weapons and then assign them to units. Which means that units with identical descriptions will still use up separate descriptions out of the total available.

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

Thanks for telling me this!

I had the DB, but it was an older version. I'm not sure I understand the 183-description limit: is it possible to activate multiple mods that collectively go over that limit, or is that a truly hard limit in the game?

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

Yes, it's hard limit for descriptions added by mod. You can go over the limit via multiple mods or just one megamod that has that many descriptions. Any more than that and they start getting overwritten. It's a limit that seems to be set in stone, but it was discovered through trial and error and probably has something to do with array sizes reserved for that kind of things.

I have not tested it myself, I've compiled those bug reports just on the basis of what Sombre, Ich and the others have said, since they can generally be trusted to report things in depth and accurately.

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

I really liked AoW 1, shadow magic was frankly a bit of a let down for me, but still very cool, I might be able to help you with some unit graphics, not ships or siege weapons, but for those you should look through a bunch of other mods, I've very sure I've come across 1 or two mods that have some artillery in dom 3 and 1 or 2 in dom 2, Oh! one of them is on the illwinter home page ( http://www.illwinter.com ) it's a two nation orc one.

But anyway, you can give me some tasks with units and I'll do my best, if you wanna see my previous work check out the "Pirate Nation" it may be on the second page by now.

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

It's a very good idea. I tried to make an AoW mod but I don't have skills for graphics and I give up for this reason.

Another problem is the transport unit like the air galley. There isn't any similar system in dominions. The only idea I have to simulate this is to give supply bonus for transport unit.

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

Transport units are hard to pull off. The only transport like ability in the game really is sailing. In my Master of Magic mod I gave the Draconian airship sailing so it had some sort of transport mechanism. The disadvantage of course is that the AI loves to make prophets out of airships. But I just use my imagination and pretend like the captain is the prophet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

Thanks, Juzza - right now I'm feeling around for what is possible, as I did not know about the unit DESCRIPTION limit! For recolored units, I will definitely want a musketeer, a female Elven archer, something to stand in for Julia, possibly some Dwarven units, but most of the other races I think are around. Then there's machines, which as you say should be around. But THANKS for your offer! I will definitely take you up on it once I know what I need (if you want to suggest anything, go ahead)! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Just to clarify on the descriptions: there suppose that you try to load two separate mods each of which have 150 descriptions. Will this overwrite each-other?

Anyhow, yes, I was intending on making flagships and transport ships not only sailing but also give them the ability to allow troops under their "command" to enter the sea. It doesn't matter if the AI wants to make Prophets out of them; after all, if they are the commanders that go into the sea, then ordinary commanders can't go, so there have to be applicable prophets. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

Okay, There are a few hoburg mods around, (hoburgs are practically dwarves) So we can probably modify some of them, theres also the 11 nation mod for the Black Moon armies that has two dwarven nations. The 11 nation mod also have at least two elven nations. In case you wanna source some stuff from them, un, theres also Salvania, or something which is an elven nation with good graphics. Also one of the hoburg mods has some siege equipment so, whenever you have a list of stuff that needs doing I'll be ready!

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

I hadn't considered that there might be other mods already out there that would have done some of the work already. I would like to preserve as many Dominions nations as I can still, so where possible I would like to modify existing Dominions units than replace them wholesale. But I will look in the mod list thread and get back to you tomorrow - thanks!

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

If you want to create a Age of Wonder mod, I think you can't preserve dominions nations easely.

For the Hoburg, they are more closer to the Hobbit.

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

mm, true, and dwarves in age of wonders are tough and short, so they should stay size 2, they should also lose some speed, gain some hp, possibly strength, and lower their encomberance or give them some reinvigoration, remember, they may not be fast but they can endure a lot!

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

I have browsed through the list of mods, and right now I'm too busy to try them and probably will be for a couple of weeks (RL intevenes).

It looks like there is material available to make some of the non-human races, so when we get to them they should not pose too many problems. I would like to add new units more than remove existing ones, though, so I am still thinking with the model that, for example, the Dwarves are Vanheim AoM with a bunch of things added (i.e. the Dwarves still have their demigod or elf-like allies, although the balance of the nation is now clearly Dwarven).

For the moment, I'm taking one race at a time, the first one on my list being the Humans.

Can anybody verify what can and cannot be done, using multiple mods if necessary, concerning unit descriptions?

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

I thought you were already told - last time it was tested (in patch 3.08) it was roughly 183 or so descriptions that you could add.

Multiple mods, single mod, makes no difference. You can't add more descriptions than that. That includes overwriting the descriptions of vanilla units too, I believe. I could be wrong on that last part though.

With 3.10 I would guess there are even fewer description slots available.

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

Just making sure - but if overwriting the vanila descriptions is not part of those 183, then that's an entirely different story.

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

I suggest you test it so you know what's possible before you really get into this mod.

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

If you proceed like this, by create "hybrid" nation, I'm not sure about the "flavor" that will result. The AoW dwarves with glamour seems very strange to me :p.

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

Glamour should only be given to those AoW units with Blur like the Tigeran Mystics and the Iron Maidens.

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

I'll test it when I get time - unlikely to be able to until next week (as I said, RL intervenes)

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

you see, I have a way to avoid this rl stuff, I have no life

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

Yeah, well, I'm going to a conference tomorrow, I had to make sure I was ready for it this past week, so... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

Okay, I can't do what I was originally planning because, indeed, there is a limit of 171 units with descriptions, and even existing units that have been rewritten count against that limit. As a result, the mod will consist of existing nations with a handful of units added instead of an overhaul of the game.

Meanwhile, I will ask Illwinter to increase this limit in the next mod.

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

You can make one Nation by mod no? This limit is a for one mod only, not for an addition of mod?

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

A lot of mod issues are coming home to roost with the addition of so many new nations to the vanilla game via patch (so far Lanka, Eriu, Tir na n'Og, Fomoria, Serpent Cult), while the modding limits seem not to have been changed since Dominions 2, which only had 17 nations instead of 70.

Consequently, a lot of the mod issues are going to be presented to Illwinter as a package as soon as I can write that report up.

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

Okay, so it looks like the bug is going to be fixed at some point, although it might not be soon. I'm going to go ahead with this simple version of the mod.

Now, I will lay out what sort of thing I intend to do with the following example of the first race:


The Humans

The Humans will use late era Man as a template, although a few units will be added. These will include the following:

New units (units I will be making stats and descriptions from scratch):
-A Musketeer
-An Air Galley (maybe)

Added units (units that I will be adding from other nations or independents):
-A Sailing commander, probably the Captain of late Marignon (pretty well everyone is going to have someone with Sailing in this mod)
-A medium-weight cavalry (of which there are many options)
-A higher-powered independent priest (e.g. the High Priest)

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

So you make the human of the first AOW?

The Air Galley is one of the most difficult unit to adapt, because they lost their main capacity: quick troops transport. The more close capacity is to give a supply bonus to all transport unit (Air galley, balloons and dwarwen tank). What do you think of this?

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

Yeah, these are (primarily) based on the AoW1 Humans, although some AoW2 units might be added (the captain is similar enough to the swashbuckler).

Yeah, I'm not sure how to handle the air galley. It's a unit that has both flying and sailing. I don't think it will be produceable; it will probably be available in the Construction school. Probably air as primary and earth as secondary.

I'm also thinking of adding some Human heroes in a similar way.

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

Good idea to make it associate with construction school.

A default with sailing is that only troops with the commander (and in this case, the Air galley must be a commander) benefit from the sailing capacity. So if you have commander without sailing with the air galley, they can't follow the galley. It's frustating ^^'

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

Been busy.

Now, here is a question: I am considering making heroes summonable to the different races and nations, instead of having them sometimes spontaneously appear the way that existing Dominions heroes work. This would mean that they are more reliable, but it also means that you wouldn't get extremely powerful heroes early in the game that would unbalance things. However, here is the question: suppose that the hero is killed. Could you just summon him again (even if he is unique)?

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

If you make them unique, which is doable, you could just resummon them, yes.

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

Heroes are not unique, but only appear once because they have been designated as national heroes by the #hero1-5 command. IF they die, you could wish for them again and get a shiny new one. If you have a summoning spell, e.g. Abysia could summon 15x Ba'al Chozron and Sauromatia as many Circes as it liked and so on. So making them summonable is a bad idea.

By the way, if you haven't been around, there's a new reorganized modding manual out as a result of a project of mine. Thought you could find that useful. You can find it by following the link in my sig.

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

It's relatively easy to make them unique though. The actual units. Then you can offer them as a summon, though of course they can be resummoned if killed then.

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

Thanks Edi!

Here is what I am thinking: Julia will be available for least seven different nations. I could make her a hero for each unit, a unique summon, or both. If she's a hero, the she could appear multiple times (one for each nation), but each nation would get her only once, but it would be unpredictable when and if she would appear. If she's a summon, then I could restrict access to her by requiring research, magic paths, and magic gems, to acquire her, and I could make her unique, but if she dies, she could be summoned (resurrected?) anew, and moreover, another nation could probably swipe her away since she is available to multiple nations. I could of course do both: make a hero Julia and a unique summon Julia with a different unit number. Here, of course, there really could be two of her, if you both get her as a hero and summon her, but if you do get her as a hero, she can't be swiped from under your nose by another player casting the same summon. A final thing I can do, of course, is just add Julia to the list of female names - of course, then there could again be more than one Julia, but that could be explained that they are different people who just happen to have the same name!

Speaking of which, I'm trying to understand how heroes are named. Are the name tables reiterated for each nation, or how do you make sure that a hero has a specific name? I don't see a #heroname command. Are the custom name lists specific to each nation, i.e. if I, say, give the Elves two heroes (say, Julia and Elric), and give the Dark Elves two heroes (Meandor and Melenis), would modding name lists 127 and 128 separately for the Elves and Dark Elves respectively allow me to ensure these names? Certainly the nations in the game have heroes with specific names, many of them more than two such heroes!

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

There's no way to do extensive name modding for individual heroes, because each hero requires a separate nametype with just one entry. There are not nearly enough free nametypes. Existing hero names are hardcoded.

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

Hm - that's a problem. What happens if I give a hero a name from one of the custom name lists, but the list is blank? Could I name the unit the name of a hero?

Also, which do you think would work better for my purposes: seven different nations each with a hero for Julia, or a unique Julia summon available to those seven nations?

Last, I'm curious, but I want to know approximately how powerful to make AoW heroes. What stats/abilities/magic would you give to Julia? How would you represent her armor?

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

The best you can do is just do the description and whenever somebody does get the hero, they can rename it so the name matches.

As for what you want, take a look at the Worthy Heroes mod and how the heroes there have been beefed up. For Julia, I'd probably go for something like

hp 14
prot 0
mor 17
mr 18
str 12
att 14
def 16
prec 16
mapmove 2
ap 13
ldr-n 120 or 160
ldr-u 0
ldr-m 10
forest survival
awe +2
standard +20 or 30
sacred
female (well, duh)
magic A3E3N4H3 (or H4 instead of H3, if you prefer)
Weapon Enchanted Sword
Armor Silver Hauberk, Golden Shield (or Enchanted Shield)

That'd be fairly thematic. At least it comes closest to how I've envisioned Julia, but may be influenced how I played the original Keepers campaign with Earth 3 Life 4.

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

Making a custom name list with every single entry named "Julia" oughto work. I remember poking around with the Avernum mod to produce a similar result.

I'm a bit confused with Julia being a hero rather then a pretender (she's the queen of the elves after all) but personally I would go with the unique summon approach. Would be wierd to have all seven nations sporting a Julia hero unit at the same time.

Believe it or not but I too worked on an AoW mod (even managed to create some silly looking graphics). But that was way back when Dom3 was just released, and the tools are more powerful now. I eventually scrapped the idea because it was fairly difficult for me to 'translate' AoW into Dom3.

All things considered the AoW heroes need to be toned down to the standard set by the Worthy Heroes mod. In AoW the high level heroes where nigh unstoppable, and would make the supercombatants in dom3 seem mewling kittens in comparison.

My take on Julia (assuming mounted AoW1 style hero):

#size 3
#hp 14
#mor 15
#mr 15
#str 10
#att 12
#def 12
#prec 12
#mapmove 3
#ap 36
#maxage 10000
#mounted
#forestsurvival
#incunrest -30
#magicskill 6 3
#weapon "Enchanted Sword"
#armor "Silver Hauberk"
#superiorleader
#expertmagicleader

It might be a bit too powerful though.

Edit: Curse your ninja skills Edi! But atleast our "Julia" had some overlap. Your's even more buffed then mine though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

yours has a maxage though.. his one dies when she's 50 (and is overpowered too)

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

I actually have considered the possibility of Julia being available as a pretender for appropriate nations, seeing how almost deific the Wizards in AoW2+ are (Yaka certainly is a pretender!). I may include that as an option, but I want her to be available as a heroine as well, at least for the more AoW1-style nations in the mod.

Edi's Julia is comparable in power to the default heroes of Tir 'na n'Og, which is only appropriate considering Julia's race: she's a good mage, a good commander, and, properly outfitted, a good thug, but hardly a supercombatant. It would be easy to create a pretender who would be more powerful in any of these areas, and not that difficult to create a pretender who could surpass her in all of them (although said pretender might need to be imprisoned or take negative scales). Julia the pretender of course will have the option of being a bit more powerful.

The seven nations in question represent different aspects of the various factions. So, they are the Elves (as a race), the Keepers, the High Priests, the Spirit of Nature, the element of Life, the altar of Life, and the Wizard's Throne, and possibly the elements of Air and Water as well. It is certainly reasonable that Julia would belong to any one of them. I would like to explore possibilities of her existing in each of these, even being killed in some but not in others (hey, only one of these nations can win - this is Dominions!), which is why I considered the multiple hero approach. Of course, if she's summonable instead, this can happen in a different fashion, with multiple resurrections. The multiple hero approach also keeps one nation's options for her free of what might happen to other nations' options - e.g. if the Keepers' Julia gets horrormarked, the Elves' Julia isn't. This might be preferable or not, depending.

I'm not sure whether or not to make heroes mounted. I may make both, actually, depending on circumstances (nation). For her abilities, I am open to suggestions, but her default spheres in the Valley are 4 Life, 2 Air, 1 Water, so her magic will reflect that. Certainly I do want to give her a long lifespan - even with BoT, she should not be worrying about her age! But should she have Awe (as Edi gives her), or possibly Stealth and Seduce (the designs on her armor certainly look made to draw attention to her figure)?

More immediately, though, is the philosophical question of equipment for heroes: the vast majority of commanders in Dominions, including even most of the pretenders, are armed with common weapons and armor. The obvious implication is that the player is expected to forge magical items for their thugs and SCs. Should AoW heroes have magical equipment, or basic stuff that will be replaced?

*

Meanwhile, here is a transcript from the mod file:

----Humans

--Musketeer and Air Galley to be added here
--Spell to construct Air Galley to be added here
--May also add spells allowing Humans to summon some Bogarus mages

--Select Late Man
#selectnation 51
#name Humans
#era 1
--Flag?
#descr "Banished from their garden for their moral imperfection, the Humans invaded the Blessed Continent and destroyed the magically powerful Elven civilization that preceded them and took their legacy of magic. Ambitious, brash, and independent, the Humans seek to split infinities, do the undoable, and make themselves masters of Nature's laws. Their governments are forever evolving, and each man and woman is his or her own mind. Some desire to invent and build things. Others desire to rule and wield power, while others are content to sit in the shade of the trees and tell stories to children. Some humans are deeply spiritual, while others show a knack for learning powers that were thought forgotten. Every man walks after their own pursuit with brazen disregard for the laws of nature or the order of life.

Though the Humans now control the heart of the former Elven civilization and power, their power has come with a price. Once, Humans harvested Elven magic, but now, magic is draining from the former Elven lands, and from the Humans as well. In response, the Humans have called upon their faiths and their masters of knowledge both truthful and hypocritical, and have created an order of mages who can research even in the draining magic of the Valley of Wonders. Will the Race of Men spread from the Valley and usher the world into a new age of the mundane, or will other races reclaim the Elven Valley and restore the Age of Wonders?"

#summary "Race: Humans
Military: Crossbow-armed heavy infantry, longbows, knights, Wardens of the Elven Court
Magic: Astral, Air, Earth, some Fire, Death, Blood
Priests: Average"

#brief "The Empire of Humanity has taken control of the Valley of Wonders and is building a new Age of steel without fantasy."
#epithet "Children of Chaos"
--Give Humans the Cathedral-temple
#templepic 9

--Underwater province defense needs to be added here

#end

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

I wouldn't worry too much about the specific details of heroes until you've got the basics done.

But since we're on that topic,... what I did for the Skaven Warhammer mod was make the heroes powerful, give them their famed items as best I could and remove the slots that they would have used up to wield them. So Ikkit Claw, who traditionally has Storm Daemon the warp halberd, his mechanical claw and his special mask has no head slot or hand slots. Queek who is armed with a warpstone charm, warpstone armour, dwarf gouger and,.. I forget what the other weapon is called,.. anyway he got no hand slots, no body and 1 less misc than other heroes. Since I can't actually give him equipment representing the charm he wears, I simply mentioned it in the description and upped his base mr. The two weapons he has are comparable with ok melee forgables and he has armour with low enc and prot 22 or so. In this fashion you get heroes who effectively come pre-equipped with magic items but can still be improved.

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

I'll note that my version of Julia should have maxage somewhere around a few thousand too. I intended a non-mounted hero, so that's why the AP. Itemslots head, 2 hands, body, feet, 3 misc.

I can do Meandor, Inioch and Elwyn as well if you like. Don't have much of a handle on Gabriel or the main humans.

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

Not sure, but I think several nations can share a hero. The hero will only appear once. Thus one nation will be lucky http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I've intended to make some heroes shared by nations, such as perhaps a jotun or a vanir, since they intermarried a bit in norse myth.

Arco and Pangaea could easily share some heroes and it is not too difficult to come up with other working combinations.

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

Thanks for letting me know that, Kristoffer! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

This brings up the other question (perhaps I haven't played the game enough to understand how this works): suppose that I do make heroes unique summons potentially available to multiple nations (let's use Julia again since she's the AoW main character). Suppose that the Keepers (Kailasa) summon Julia. Now, later in the game, while Julia is in the Keepers' ranks, the Spirit of Nature (mid Man) also tries to summon Julia. Do the Keepers see Julia disappear in a puff of smoke as she goes to join the Spirit of Nature, or does the Spirit of Nature cast the summons but nobody answers the call?

Now, suppose Julia dies. I know that she can be summoned again, but I assume that means anybody who has access to the spell can summon her, including both the Keepers and the Spirit of Nature. Is this true, i.e. the two nations are in a race to resurrect Julia?

Now, suppose that before she died, the Keepers made Julia the prophetess of their god. Does she still have prophet status when she is resurrected? Even if she is resurrected by a different nation? I assume that this issue has been brought up before, since it could happen with elemental royalty or unique demon princes as well...


Sure - I'd like to see what you think (as I said in the opening post, I am open to suggestions). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

At the moment I am working on the Humans (so, ironically, it will be Joseph, Trilius, and Sirdanc that I will have to make as heroes before I do Julia), however, so I'm currently trying to figure out how to do the two units the Humans have in AoW but aren't in Dominions: the Musketeer and the Air Galley. The Musketeer is easy: just a spearman for a graphic and armed with a new weapon that sounds like a crossbow, has great range and damage, and horrible accuracy. The Air Galley is a bit harder. Do you know of any resources I could use to get a sprite for an Air Galley?

Also, I want to use ships more generally, i.e. have most races with access to naval vessels. Apart from graphics, how would you handle them? I'm trying to balance their being aquatic or amphibious, whether or not they have sailing, where they can be built, etc.

I also may use some ship heroes...

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

I guess ships would be commanders with sailing and,.. mapmove 0 possibly,.. unable to move in a fight and fires ballista bolts.

Personally I'd just leave them out, but I think they could be done that way.

Re: Age of Wonders Mod
 

Thanks for the idea Sombre - I just might use that. I also might include the classic AoW "poor-man's Air Galley" in the Enchantment school of a ship that can also sail on land!

Has anybody done mods using ships that I could use as a start point for making ship icons?


Also, again, what does happen if you try to summon a unique creature that another nation has already summoned?