New SE4 Race: Minbari
 

You can get it here..http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/For...ML/000017.html

This was originally for personal use only, but the AI turned out better than I hoped, so I thought I'd upload it. Make sure to read the readme. Input is of course welcome.

Re: New SE4 Race: Minbari
 

Looks good!
I’ve got some images of AOG ships laying around and I can whip up some mini real (in a week) fast. Would you want to use them in your set? I have images for the Tigara Attack cruiser, Leshath heavy scout, Morshin carrier, Troligan Armored cruiser, Netashan gunship, Torotha assault frigate, the Minbari flyer, and a starbase (no portrait for that though)
Interested?

Re: New SE4 Race: Minbari
 

Nice work Warlord Adamus.
The mini race pictures seem not quite correct to me: it's just a quater of a face. And in the general.txt file you must give race options 2 and 3, otherwise an error message will be generated, if the race is used as random computer empire.

Re: New SE4 Race: Minbari
 

Mr Schizoid- Sure, sounds great. I hated doubling up the pictures to represent different ship types, but there just don't seem to be enough Minbari ships to round out SE4's classes. You can email me at WhattaAzz@hotmail.com.

Q-A few of the pictures need some work, I'll fix it in the next Version. The vast majority of my time was working on and testing the ai. Also about the race options 2 and 3. To my knowledge an error would only be generated if a higher than 2000 point start is used. Since this is all I play in I didn't think to change it. I'll update it also.Thanks.

Re: New SE4 Race: Minbari
 

Ok, sounds good. I'll get to work right away!

Re: New SE4 Race: Minbari
 

Any update on these new Minbari pictures? I have added some pictures of my own. I'll forward them to you if you want them.

Re: New SE4 Race: Minbari
 

Hi Warlord!
I was testing the Minbari AI, and have some observations. Of course that you can agree or not, but here are:

First, the positive ones.
1) They expand very fast.
2) They can amass really big fleets, because their ship designs are cheap to maintain (the DUC cannons are really cheap!).
3)If they can survive the early game, they can research very fast (I think that you have designed this race for big maps and 5 or 10 starting planets).


The negative (of course that in my view).

1) They research very early in the game, Applied Research II and Applied Research III. It mean that in games with small maps and a few starting planets, they will take a loooong time researching these techs... and then, during this time, they are an easy prey for aggressive races (for example, the Rage, the Pyrochette, the Klingon, Romulan and several other TDM races).

2)I think that the DUC cannons are a weak weapon against ships with PPB, Organic Weapons, Temporal Weapons, etc. I saw a fleet of 25 Minbari ships (Destroyers, Light Cruisers and Cruisers), defeated by 4 Romulan Light Cruisers!

Later in the game, I saw Minbari ships with Ripper Beams and Incinirator Beams. These weapons are ok, but have a really short range. It mean that fighting against races with Engine Damaging weapons (like the Pyrochette or the Aquilaeian), they can't do anything.

3) They start to research the Religious tech, after a lot of turns. It mean that they can't take advantage from the cool Shirines, during a long time.

Re: New SE4 Race: Minbari
 

Do they also have the disadvantage of surrendering on the eve of victory when at war against the Earth Alliance? http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Re: New SE4 Race: Minbari
 

It's funny right now I am using Earth Alliance and the Minbari approached me for trade,research, and partnership alliances. They're my buddies. They are at war with the borg.

Re: New SE4 Race: Minbari
 

"Any update on these new Minbari pictures? I have added some pictures of my own. I'll forward them to you if you want them. "

Sure, feel free to send. Iv'e just received some very nice pics from Mr. Schizo, and I should be finished with the latest Version by the end of this week.

"First, the positive ones.
1) They expand very fast.
2) They can amass really big fleets, because their ship designs are cheap to maintain (the DUC cannons are really cheap!).
3)If they can survive the early game, they can research very fast (I think that you have designed this race for big maps and 5 or 10 starting planets).
"

All good observations.

"1) They research very early in the game, Applied Research II and Applied Research III. It mean that in games with small maps and a few starting planets, they will take a loooong time researching these techs... and then, during this time, they are an easy prey for aggressive races (for example, the Rage, the Pyrochette, the Klingon, Romulan and several other TDM races)."

Interesting.. Could you describe the setup that causes them to expand slowly ? Just about all of my test games, (almost 20) were low bonus, 1 planet starts. My findings were that they out-expanded just about everyone with the exception being the EA, and then only because the Minbari produce many more warships - earlier.

"2)I think that the DUC cannons are a weak weapon against ships with PPB, Organic Weapons, Temporal Weapons, etc. I saw a fleet of 25 Minbari ships (Destroyers, Light Cruisers and Cruisers), defeated by 4 Romulan Light Cruisers! "

They are also designed to use High-energy weapons when they have the tech. I chose DUC because they were cheap weapons that could hold their own (somewhat) until the Minbari get High Energy. When they develop a mix of both they are much more effective, though admittedly a bit under-gunned. I wanted them to be fast, and multi-role so they can carry solar sails, minesweepers, sensors..kind of a trade-off.

"Later in the game, I saw Minbari ships with Ripper Beams and Incinirator Beams. These weapons are ok, but have a really short range. It mean that fighting against races with Engine Damaging weapons (like the Pyrochette or the Aquilaeian), they can't do anything."

Both the DUC and WMG have a short range. In theory, since I made research and propulsion such a high priority, the Minbari speed advantage should cancel out their lack of range. Are you not finding that this is the case ?

"3) They start to research the Religious tech, after a lot of turns. It mean that they can't take advantage from the cool Shirines, during a long time."

I'll have to look into this. I had them earlier up the line and found out that they really slowed down research. I have to find that perfect medium.

Great to hear from you MB, thanks for the help !

Re: New SE4 Race: Minbari
 

Hi Warlord!!

"Interesting.. Could you describe the setup that causes them to expand slowly ?"

They doesn't expand slowly, they expand very very fast.
The problem (in my view), is that in games where they find aggressive races early (in games with small galaxy and 3 or 5 starting planets), while the Minbari are researching Applied Research II and III (and could take a lot of turns), the others are researching better techs for their warships... then, the Minbari could have problems (in fact, in my games they had) to survive the early game.

"They are also designed to use High-energy weapons when they have the tech. I chose DUC because they were cheap weapons that could hold their own (somewhat) until the Minbari get High Energy. When they develop a mix of both they are much more effective, though admittedly a bit under-gunned. I wanted them to be fast, and multi-role so they can carry solar sails, minesweepers, sensors..kind of a trade-off."

I can see your intentions, but the High Energy weapons take long time to research...
Honestly, still I like more the PPB weapons.
The good thing, is that the Duc cannons used in the Minbari fighters, are very good!


"Both the DUC and WMG have a short range. In theory, since I made research and propulsion such a high priority, the Minbari speed advantage should cancel out their lack of range. Are you not finding that this is the case ?"

True, but against ships with Ionic Disperser weapons (I love this weapon!), they have problems.
An example are the Aquilaeian Empire and the Pyrochette Empire (of course that both are my AI's! Remember you the old days? http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif ).

"I'll have to look into this. I had them earlier up the line and found out that they really slowed down research. I have to find that perfect medium."
Ok.

"Great to hear from you MB, thanks for the help !"
Hehehe, thanks Warlord! I think that you could recognize my spell (or lack of), very fast! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
Finally, want to say that I wrote my observations, not only because wanted to help you... also was... because I have enjoyed a lot the Minbari! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: New SE4 Race: Minbari
 

Any updates on Minbari. Awesome race. How about making the Centuri, League of Non-aligned Worlds, the Drakk,...

Re: New SE4 Race: Minbari
 

Any update on the Minbari Race? They rock.

Re: New SE4 Race: Minbari
 

Been a bit busy lately so progress has been slow..but expect a new Version by monday at the latest !

Re: New SE4 Race: Minbari
 

New Version is 1.1. You can get it here http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/For...ML/000017.html

Lots of improvements based on the feedback I've gotten, and quite a few nice new pictures from Mr. Schizoid. Gotta warn you to expect some more intense battles, as this time I used the Pyrochette as a sparring partner in my tests.

"How about making the Centuri, League of Non-aligned Worlds, the Drakk,..."

I wouldn't mind doing some scripts for those if I could find a good amount of pictures. It just gets time-consuming scrounging for B5 pictures on the net, re-sizing, renaming etc. If you've got a solution, email me.

Re: New SE4 Race: Minbari
 

Thanks Warlord! I'll test them!

Re: New SE4 Race: Minbari
 

Some pictures you can liberate from the Shadows set that was created. Maybe play of of that. I'll do some looking.

Re: New SE4 Race: Minbari
 

Hey Warlord. I sent you an email with an updated Version of the Minbari, I added new graphics and addtional stuff. let me know what you think.

Re: New SE4 Race: Minbari
 

Woops! Warlord, I did some more re-editing and added another ship graphic. I did some color enhansment as well. I will email it later in the day.

Re: New SE4 Race: Minbari
 

Adamus I have posted my re-edit of your mod of the Minbari. I didn't touch any of the ai files. Just graphics. Hope you like.

Re: New SE4 Race: Minbari
 

Pretty good. Some pictures are definately an improvement. Others, I still like the originals better. I'm a little suprised that you re-posted it though.

Re: New SE4 Race: Minbari
 

Well... I always liked more a good AI than a good shipset!
I was testing the Minbari, and the improvements that you have included, did the AI a lot more strong.
Thanks Adamus!

Re: New SE4 Race: Minbari
 

I did notice one thing that might hurt the Minbari AI: The attack and defense ships are setup to only build ships with PPB and Meson BLasters. Which means no exploration ships. They will act like a neutral until they get phased polaron beams (first on that list). Unless they get a huge world in their home system that they use as a research center, it's going to be awhile before they get out of their home system. Maybe adding either depleted uranium cannons or capital missiles to the main weapon pick list (lower priority than ppb's) will let them build some exploration ships?

I also noticed the entry for farming colonies seems to be short on facilities. Is it supposed to have an entry for 100 research centers or intelligence centers at the end of the list like the 100 research center entry the refining colony has?

Anyway, it looks pretty cool.