Assassin nations?
 

Which nations have assassins? I know of machaka, marignon, and ctis (if memory serves). Any other nations have assassins?

-Jeff

Re: Assassin nations?
 

Pythium, Abysia, Ermor off the top of my head.

LA Pythium's ones are vicious now with the Serpent Krysses they come with.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

Machaka... would be a nation with assassins worth considering if their base province defense wasn't so terrible.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

Im liking my MA C'tis assassins alot. Once you research enchantment up to 1 they can pop out skellies every round and then, if ya got em equipped well, finish em off.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

http://www.freewebs.com/dominions2/units_dom3.zip

Check this out at Sunray's Virtual Library.
The last column notes assassin. Just do a ctrl-f find to go straight to each assassin.

You'll need either Microsoft Excel, OpenOffice.org (free!), or any number of programs able to open .xls spreadsheets.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

R'lyeh (MA, LA) Star Children. Jomon has Ninjas.

Mictlan (EA, LA) has rather nasty summonable ones; blood also lets you forge Black Hearts to give to stealthy units (with other plausible possibilities for this including EA Vanheim, Pangaea, and LA Ulm).

Re: Assassin nations?
 

Thanks for the link!

Mictlan has summonable ones? That sounds pretty cool. :-)

I'll have to read up on black hearts.

-Jeff

Re: Assassin nations?
 

Atlantis summons assassins as well. One shot ones, unfortunately. Not that hot, but _can_ be a quite nice sucker punch against priest-leader nations such as Ctis. Bodyguards are a major problem for Tupilaks, but mages and priest aren't, despite undead-iness.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

I've tried Jomon ninjas a bit and they work early on if the target has no bodyguards. They can throw 2 poisoned shurikens a round (2 times) and if those hit they will kill low hp stuff.

Just one or 2 bodyguards ruin his day though and if the target is even semi respectable the ninja is doomed.

Prefer my Tlahuelpuchi with mictlan or star children overall http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Assassin nations?
 

In order to have a good early game assasin, try recruiting one on the first turn and propethising him. Assasin + Smite spam = good. Just remember to put him way back in the battle placement screen.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

Lanka also has assassins, the Rakshasi is a seducer/assassin, and they can summon Samanishadas later on (a Rakshasa assassin). The Rakshasi does have the problem of not having stealth in both forms, so if she shapechanges in battle, she will likely get stuck or will attack her current province.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

Since someone mentioned Black Hearts, Jotunheim has easy access to blood and very tough (giant) scouts...

Re: Assassin nations?
 

Tupilaks may be able to take down mages and priests, but they fail miserably against victims with high defense. Hoburg heroes beat them, and that's just embarrassing.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

Yeah, not a fan of Tupilaks due to their att/def.

Ah, forgot about the Samanishadas. Vicious, if memory serves. Likewise, the seducers (including the non-national Succubus blood summon) and Sirens can be outfitted as such, although Succubi are slow to work with -- if the seduction succeeds, they have to fly back all the way from the capital.

Aside -- it is probably a bad idea to use Succubi with an underwater nation, although it might be funny from a really really warped POV if she has water-breathing gear on. Talk about a bad date...

Re: Assassin nations?
 

Hey all, thanks for the good discussion. I don't get to play much, so I've focussed mostly on nations without assassins up until now, but I just got a hankering to play with them a bit.

I'm curious - what do you guys do against a priest with smite? Smite's 20 points, so that can easily be a one-shot kill.

-Jeff

Re: Assassin nations?
 

Smite is MR-resists, so give your assassin an anti-magic amulet.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

Don't forget there's also Mujina.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

I'd like to point out Bane Spider is actually pretty good assassin except for his terrible armor. He gets -6 defense just from armor (1 for full helmet 5 for spider armor). So if you want to use them, replacing armor is the first step. I think Marble Armor is very cost effective - 25 protection +4 defense and that's for 10 gems without hammer. Cold vulnerability is not a big deal against most opponents.
I'm still scratching my head why BS cost so much gold - probably bane blades. 14 hp, nice attack and defense, ambidexterous 3. But still...

Can anyone enlighten me what's the benefit of Forest Survival on a commander with strategic move 1 ? I know there are some minor benefits like Swamp Survival units not getting diseased in Miasma, but other than that ?

Re: Assassin nations?
 

- resitance to Beckoning
- flavor

Re: Assassin nations?
 

Also....aren't they less susceptible to starvation in a forest??

Re: Assassin nations?
 

I thought commanders don't starve anyway ?
A bit off-topic : while Bane Spiders have potential, I have yet to find any task fit for Spider Warriors (that 2weapon 36res stealthy heavy infantry). Even pretty weak Pythium province defence rips them to pieces, and they're awfully expensive. Why exactly do Spider Warriors cost 30 gold ?! They could be more useful if I support them with flying/stealthy mages, for example a druid with Treelord Staff can cast regeneration, barskin, and berserkers . But so much fuss - is it worth it ? As far as I know there are no spells which work like Barskin for defence - set base defence to 10 or other fixed value (and optionally provide small defence bonus if def is already 10 or higher)

Re: Assassin nations?
 

An interesting thing I noticed today is that Jomon Ninjas have 14 base precision! I think that's the highest precision for any recruitable commander in the entire game.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

Several Vanir commanders have base precision of 14, plus some from Air. Other than that, it seems recruitables with more than 13 precision have Air magic.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

Sorry BOrsuk, I think you are right about commanders not starving, but I think line units have a lower propensity to starve in forests if they are forest survival capable.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

Smite is powerful, but you also need precision with it and MR influences the hit.

I've been playing using either of 2 bows on assassins, bow of madness(?) and etheral crossbow. Etheral crossbow is more effective, but I still lose assassins to mundane commanders. Haven't managed to get my assassin with the crossbow to target a pretender or major commander yet.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

I think Smite is 100 precision. MR is the key.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

You've seen the Ethereal Crossbow work? I ask because I never see an attack sprite of the commander and no quarrel like a regular bow. I was beginning to think they were bugged. I even looked at enemy armies very closely for unexplainable deaths.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

Almost any forgable bow+eye of aiming(please ensure the assassin has atleast 2 eyes before giving him this+boots of quickness=generally great assassin.

Most forgable bows either have good damage, a good effect(feeblemind, entangle ect) or multiple shots, making them great for assassins.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

How about bow of war+eye of aiming+boots of quickness. 26 ranged attacks per combat round?

He might make a good assassin.

Also, he could probably kill any bodyguards the target may have.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

I've seen etheral crossbow work with an assassin. Nothing exciting, opponent just disappears in a blink. I had to replay the very first one a couple of times just to comprehend what happened.

I think that my assassin should be 100% successful with it, but that has not proven to be the case. I guess the problem is accuracy combined with not firing every round.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

The ethereal xbow is MR resists tho, isnt it? So you cant be 100% effective.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

They definitely worked. I used them as MA C'Tis in a recent game to kill elephants. Eagle eyes + 4 precision off the bow is a beating.

Jazzepi

Re: Assassin nations?
 

Ctis has an interesting option in the Empoisoner.

Snake Bladder Stick + Defense items. If you can get defense over 20 (not difficult with nature items) the poison just piles up rapidly, plus area attack to deal with bodyguards.

There are a variety of interesting choices for defense, but the key is 20+. Five boring independent HI will make five attacks, leading to a total defense penalty of 10 on the last attack. If you just have the default defense and just natural protection, you'll be done for.

A few Animate(d) Skeletons are nothing to laugh at if its a cavalry commander.

Mujina's (Shinuyama) are just too fragile, but I keep wanting to combine them with that morale lowering air global.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

The simple approach with the Empoisoner is a Skull Staff.

Raise skeletons beats anything short of thugs and high level priests.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

The defender always gets the first turn in assassination attempts, don't they? That makes attacking most mages a risky proposition with skelespam, even if they don't have bodyguards. A turn 1 soul slay, tangle vines, combustion, etc, will end the fight before any skeletons enter play.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

True, but that applies to most anything other than fully kitted out thug/SC.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

Skull Staff is fairly low tier, just like my setup. But even with a Skull Staff, the fatigue (40 per cast) is nothing to laugh at. Five Ulm Black Plate w/Flails (3x attack) could probably massacre 15 Skelies easy. Now, throw in some gems to lower the fatigue and its a different matter.
Or perhaps Elite Warriors (Ctis, 14 g, 9 resources, two attacks) or wolf tribe (those are the ones with two daggers, right?) warriors.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

Thanks for that. I guess it's just one of those things you can't see, but have to trust that it works. I'm glad to hear it does. I always though EC's had perfect prescison, tho. I can see how for an assassination situation that would be overpowered, though.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

Any assassin with a skullface can also be deadly. Sure, it's expensive(and other than against the ai, probably not worth it) but casting raise skeletons for 5 fatigue means that, assuming you survive the defenders first turn, you should be safe.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

I've just recently switched to a nation that can make the etheral crossbow with its own mages and I've come to like it to equip mundane commanders. I usually play one nation at a time so I also haven't often played a nation with assassins and the few times I've had assassins was from sites, which are few and far between. I previously equipped assassins with the bow of madness, but I think the EC is better.

Because I don't routinely have access to assassins I don't use them as a strategy, but more of an experimental toy. I keep trying to get a pretender or major mage with the bow of madness or etheral crossbow. No luck to date. My assassins seem to always go after mundane commanders or low level mages when they weren't getting killed off by the PD.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

YOu all forgot Marignon? they have assassins too!

Re: Assassin nations?
 

Tir An Og too...in fact theirs are pretty badass.
Baobhan Sidhe, A2 mages with glamour.
I havn't played them in MP though, so I dunno how good they'd be there.

Actually the more I think about them the better they seem. They're expensive, but they're also researchers so they can do that while they're not being used. Then when war comes round you can suit them up and send them out.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

You think you need to suit them out? They have high precision and can cast lightning bolt or just summon phantasmal guys.

Just leave them researching and when your castle gets sieged use them to assasinate every attacking commander http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

Cool thing about A2 assassins is no need to wait until your castle is sieged - you can cloud trapeze them one step ahead of an invading army. If you correctly anticipate where the army is going, you can have 7 or 8 orb lightning spewing assassination attempts while your (glamoured) defensive army moves to intercept the remainder of the army which actually moves. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Heh, think your big army of dual blessed guys are bad? Try them without a priest! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Assassin nations?
 

Pretty good, I had some success with them in Perpetuality.

Re: Assassin nations?
 

Did you try to kit them out for melee (life drain), or did you just have them cast spells?