A request to the developers: raise the unit limit!
 

At present, it is not possible to add more than 171 units with descriptions to Dominions III in a mod. This includes not only new units but also revised descriptions of existing units. I believe that this has to do with array sizes.

I request that in the next patch, the arrays be expanded so that this limit be raised. Thank you! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

I officially support this message http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

Thirdededed

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

Nah, leave it as it is. Actually, add more basegame descriptions to reduce the size available.

Let's see whose wish is granted.

[/cynic]

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

Fourthened.

It would also be goddamn awesome if the sprite limit was incrased too.

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

yes

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

fiftheded on the unit limit raise, secondeded on the sprite limit.

While we're wishing, I'll raise you an increase on the amount of sprites PER unit from 2 to some integer which happens to be larger than 2, as an option http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

Ack. I just found out that the Dev created units count towards the cap. My mods that used to work together crash my game now QQ. Bumping this for some lubbins.

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

You could create a mod that eliminated all the other nations, leaving only your mods to play with. That way you can have massive amounts of unit sprites present. Should work.

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

I don't think that would work Amos, but I suppose it might be worth a try.

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

It's possible that by replacing existing *units*, you can preserve space under the graphics cap.

I'll run tests later today.

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

Yeah that /might/ work, but since descriptions added to vanilla units still count towards the description limit, I wouldn't put money on it.

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

The unit limit, sprite limit, and in game commander limit should all be increased. Unfortunately we're more likely to see a real UFO land in the street and start dumping bricks of gold.

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

That is sad to hear. I may devote some time to modding out the later era nations to see if that works, but I have a feeling it won't. I am not sure what causes the issue, if it is an array size issue for images stored, descriptions stored etcetera or if it is an issue with how much memory the game allocates to the storage of each, but either way, it has dashed my hopes and dreams of creating several dozen unique nations http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

Maybe just showing my ignorance.. but why wold this be hard to do? Is it like a Y2K thing? It seems like it should be easy to add more empty memory banks. But I really know nothing.

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

i imagine that it is an overall memory issue. just think about all of the information that has to be held in memory aside from the sprites. memory may be cheap these days, but i think the devs are trying to keep people who may still have dilapidated systems in the fold.

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

Given that I know very little about how this game is put together - I'd guess from crawling around in the binary that it was written in good old ansi C, and I believe this was confirmed - it could, depending on how it was done, be a *major* pain in the *** to change the memory management. If this is legacy stuff from Dominions 1, the easiest way to fix this would be to rewrite the entire module, and obviously, we can forget that.

One issue is that the in-game sprites are stored in JK's efficient format, *not* as tgas. Does it compress the sprites and then uncompress them again? I have no idea - problem could be at any stage along the line.

Anyway, I'd love to see it expanded, but we can only speculate on whether or not that is even feasible.

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

Has anyone tested the remove-earlier-units idea yet? Otherwise I might give it a go. You could simply have a remove-early-age mod, a remove-mid-age mod and a remove-late-age mod, and you could use the appropriate one(s) to make particular uber-mods feasible.

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

I created a mod to test what you suggest. I used '#era 0' to take all the late era nations out of the game. So far, I am in late winter of my first game with no crashes due to "Unit Spr" bugs. One incomplete test is not conclusive, so I will try several more games and I encourage other people to test it as well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

Please elaborate how that is removing an entire era of units from the game. Usually it's era 1,2,3 and this ditches era 3?

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

The complete blocks of script for each LA nation go like this...

#selectnation 49
#era 0
#end

Etcetera

I would have thought the #era 0 command would move the nation to a nonexistent era, not having any effect on the sprites, descriptions etc. But so far, the test game I am running is allowing me to use all my mods that were causing the crash before. I am going to run more test games because I don't trust the results, but time will tell if it works or not.

If other people would test it with their truly mega megamods, it would probably yield conclusive results faster.

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

This would lift the problem ENTIRELY. This is big, I'll try it right now with my combined mod nations mods that made trouble.

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

Doesn't work for me. I tried removing nations 40-50 before the defining the mod nations in ModsOverEurope, but I get this same error here:

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>***** Error sprnbr 512, max 271, file 23
N&amp;#65533;got gick fel!
sprnbr too high for this file
N&amp;#65533;got gick fel!
sprnbr too high for this file</pre><hr />
And the "max" value doesn't change at all when I fiddle around. Please turn on some debugging (-DDD) and check.

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

Well it was worth a shot. I guess I must have got lucky for some weird reason in my test game.

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

2nd test game. No crash so far, but I have some missing descriptions that have been replaced with "No Description Available".

I think that is enough proof along with the errors you got that modding out nations does not free up space.

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

Logically it would not free up space, since the unit array and the descriptions array are separate from the nation array and the array entries don't actually get deleted, they just get deactivated by the mod. In other words, a mod is just an overlay on the base game, a Halloween costume, if you will, but the plumbing is still the same underneath.

The only viable solutions are for the array sizes being expanded in a patch, but that probably entails the ranges of numbers being adjusted as well. IIRC modded unit range was 2000-5000 or something like that, and the number of units in the game already is 1917, so any more big expansions in patches and the base unit range runs into the mod unit range, causing conflicts.

Things could be somewhat alleviated if it was possible to add descriptions separately into an array and then reference them by #description &lt;nbr&gt;, or if existing descriptions could be referenced by #description :mon&lt;monster nbr&gt;, which is how the game handles descriptions (references them from a separate file).

I need to set aside a couple of days for mod related issues, make a coherent list of them and send it on...

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

How about this? what if Illwinter offered unit-expansion (and maybe some other nice bits they aren't comfortable just adding to the game) in a nice supplimental "Dominions 3, the Goddenning!" modder-friendly expansion pack, and charged us $9.95 for it? I'd pay.

Kristoffer could add maybe 3-4 new nations to the game, along with some supplimentary graphics, and we could hold a contest and vote for the 20 or so mods we'd most like to see added to the expansion-pack, purely for the community "feel-good" factor.

This way, the main game still works on an abacus powered by a gerbil, and nobody is forced into dealing with all those icky mods that apparently make certain people feel very uncomfortable, and the rest of us aren't punished?

And it's not a patch, it doesn't fix anything that's wrong, it just adds features that noone really needs all that very much to have a good time, so nobody has to feel ashamed of making money.

And it doesn't even have to cost a fortune to publish it. Just make it a pay-for-play download off Shrapnel that you need your serial number to access.

I'm sure there's atleast a hundred people here who would eventually spring for it. Atleast a hundred more would probably feel a little better about purchasing Dominions 3 for it being there.

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

So, it'd be like a regular update, but this time you pay for it? I don't think you'll find many fans for that idea... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

No it wouldn't be like a regular update. Regular updates are called "patches". If you read what I wrote, I'm saying, *specifically* "And it's not a patch".

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

So you get some more nations and units from KO (like the stuff in the patches) and you get 20 mod nations as well?

...

These things are already free. I'd pay a bit of money to get a bunch of modding stuff put in the game, but only if everyone can use it.

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

Which is what I'm saying-you'd pay for extras, like extra unit-space in the game, which (the theory apparently is) would otherwise cramp up the kinds of computers the Devs want the game to run on, and that people with those kinds of computers don't want to have to pay extra for, in a game they then wouldn't be able to use anyway.

You'd also get the mods-which are indeed otherwise, and should stay otherwise, free-packaged conveniently in one download for whomever wants to pay for the service. Or not, it's just an idea.

And-here's the kicker-if something like this could show the Devs a strong (and profitable) interest in material for more powerful computers, it *might* just get them interested in creating Dominions 4 sometime in the forseeable future.

Yes, we all know it's not about the money, but sometimes, money spent can represent how we feel about a product. How much we appreciate it, and want it to stay alive.

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

What makes you think the description and sprite limits have anything to do with keeping the game running on older computers? They seem more like arbitrary values left over from Dom1/2 to me.

The limit to the total number of units on a map is a different story. I have no interest in getting that increased because I'm never going to run into it.

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

Problem is, will this mean that it's a branch of the game? People who don't have that extra pack won't be able to play (extra) games with those people, right? So it's a mandatory update, for practical reasons? Will there have to be separate patches for the normal main game and the extra version? How do you want to do the serial number authentication on the web site? Look at Illwinter's homepage for a comparison of how much care goes into the web sites.

I think your idea is never going to get realized just because there's way too much work involved with not too big a payoff.

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

I'm just suggesting a solution to a problem that other people have posted about. If it's a hold-over and can be fixed with a few taps of the keyboard, then by all means.

People with Starcraft who don't also have Broodwar, still play Starcraft, and that's a 10 year old game, so obviously a "branch" as you call it (I'll be referring to it as an "expansion-pack" so as to not confuse this with other, more agricultural, issues.) isn't by itself an automatic game-killer. The big question here is how *many* people?

Ofcourse, I'll have to consult my psychic voodoo 8-ball, but I'm willing to bet the release of Broodwar didn't thrust Blizzard into bankruptsy like a plummeting meteor?

Same thing with patches-this isn't alien technology we're talking about, nobody is sitting in a secret laboratory in Nevada, trying to decypher the complexities of a patch system for games with expansion-packs. The most common process is to, yes, have two separate patches, when a single patch would affect two different versions of a game, adversely.

Finally, Stardock did a fine job of serial number authentication. Hell, *I* could probably write a working, secure-if extremely archaic-serial number authentication program in BASIC, from memory. Not that it's all *that* necessary.

Yes, piracy is upsetting and immoral, but it's a problem that throws people into a panic of somewhat greater proportion-for a great deal less reason-than Communism in the McCarthy era. I personally sought out Dominions based on a half-remembered photograph in, possibly? Dragon Magazine. I not only bought my copy of the game, but I also ended up purchasing a copy of Disciples 2 (another game with like 4 expansion packs), because I thought it *was* Dominions. Spending money on advertizement is way more important than any money thrown away on halting piracy, for a game like Dominions.

And if you don't believe me about the viability of expansion-packs, ask the creators of the Sims.

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

Hi modders.

The unit limit in modding is just an oversight I believe. I dont think it is something that causes big memory problems or any such thing.

NTjedi's wishes on increased ingame unit max is (or might be if your comp is old and slow).

So if the issue is placed easily visibible in the shortlist JK might notice it and increase the limit with a few keystrokes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
I think it is a fix he's inclined to do if he is aware of it. It might be a big issue for you, but in terms of programming it is just an increase, so it might be overlooked as there are other things that appears as bigger issues from a fixing perspective. You have been quite vocal here, but I'm not sure how active JK is in the mod sub-forum. I believe he takes a look here from time to time when he wants to add some new stuff. Modding means adding new things. Bugfixes are old and boring.

Unless this issue is already in the shortlist, make sure it is, and in red (or some other nice color). Add a little cake icon for JK, he likes cakes ands is probably more likely to adress the issue if there is a cake in the post http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

Here are some cake templates to be used in the bug thread: [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Cake.gif[/img] [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Cake.gif[/img] [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Cake.gif[/img] [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Cake.gif[/img] [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Cake.gif[/img] [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Cake.gif[/img] [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Cheese.gif[/img] [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Cake.gif[/img] [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Cake.gif[/img] [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Cake.gif[/img]

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

lol

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

Hmm, I've talked to JK and he told me the limit on modded stuff is not intentional and thus not just about increasing a limit, but finding and squashing a bug that has been hidden in the game all along. This makes it a bit less easy to fix.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

Damn. You mean both the description and sprite limits? That's bad news :[

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

No idea what I mean. JK said there was a bug when I spoke to him about this thread. He was aware, so he has read the thread.

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

Okay. I hope JK knows we would really really appreciate a fix here - it's probably the most important thing for modders. Right now we can't squeeze more than a maximum of four mod nations into a game, which is sad.

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

I second what Llamabeast has said. It is pretty huge for a lot of modders because we are starting to reach a place in our modding where we have hit the cap. I don't know about the other guys but I have been discouraged to make new mods because I would have to sideline one of my modded nations in my single player games.

Releasing the graphics breathed new life into modding for me, and there is no question that eliminating the unit/description cap will do the same, so it is very much worth the effort squashing the bug atleast for me personally http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

This problem is fixed in the next version.

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

You are a wonderful human being Johan. Thank you for being.

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

/me commences bowing

I'm not worthy! I'm not worthy!

You are even cooler than Woody Allen thinks Ingmar Bergman is (and Ignmar Bergman actually is pretty cool (I'm a Jew in New York, which makes all of this funny. (Except the anime joke at the begining.)))

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

JK: Description limit, sprite limit or both?

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

Only the sprite limit was affected by this.

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

From my testing the game uses small amounts of memory and lots of CPU. Currently on a map with only 700 provinces I've encountered the commander limit during an early era game on turn_120. The result causes failed assasination spells, failed summoning spells of commanders, no more mercenaries, etc.

My wish for an increased unit limit and commander limit should ideally be added as an adjustable game setup option. Having an adjustable commander limit and unit limit means Dominions_3 can adjust to any computer being used today, next year, 5 years from now or even 45 years from now.


I definitely recommend including this option which will allow Dominions_3 to be scalable for the computers of today and tomorrow.

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

Only 700?

700 is frickin huge.

Re: A request to the developers: raise the unit li
 

I never play with less than 1k http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif.