Q about blessings --> niefelheim pretender strat
 

I was comparing nature earth and water bless (for determining a pretender start for niefelheim I'll admit)
my questions:
1. Reinvigoration means you lose that amount of fatigue per turn?
2. Quickness means higher move AND + 1 attack every other round right?
(the spell even says + one attack and +3 att and def)
3. what exactly does berserk +2 do?

add 2.
I was looking while in battle and I see the extra attack nowhere nor the +3 att/def (apart from the water bless) so I guess maybe you don't get an additional attack.

Re: Q about blessings
 

1) yes. Great for mages. nice, but only so-so for melee.

2)W9 gets you the extra attack every other round. The lesser water bless gives you up to +4 def.
So it's not actually the same as the quickness spell. Stacks with it though.
The extra attack doesn't show up as an icon or anything. You do get more APs which is really what counts.

3)Berserk +2: adds 2 to str, att and prot, subtracts 2 from def when you go berserk.

And just in case you don't already know: the standard neifelheim bless is E9N6 (or 4) Reinvig, protection and regen. Keeps them going long enough for the cold to work.

Re: Q about blessings
 

1. I'm pretty sure thats correct. Just keep in mind it doesn't stop you from gaining fatigue through the usual channels: combat and spell casting.

2. I'm not sure of the particulars, but the blessing quickness and the spell quickness are different. I believe the blessing will give the defense bonus and one extra attack every other round. The spell gives you +3 attack and defense and an extra attack EVERY round.

3. Beserk is a unit attribute. When such a unit with the berserker icon is wounded, there is a chance for the unit to "go beserk". This means the unit will never route or fail any morale check, the unit will only attack with melee (no more spell casting if that was ever an option), and the unit will have certain stats adjusted for better or for worse by the beserker +number.

Re: Q about blessings
 

So does W9+quickness give you 3 extra attacks every two rounds and 250% movement rate as well as +3 ATK and +7 DEF?

Re: Q about blessings
 

Ok thanks

On the niefelheim bless, i've not found a real standard but E and N seem most used indeed

I was looking at N 6, 8 or 9 combined with either earth 9 or water 9

earth might be standard but I was wondering wether water wouldn't be just as good, defense is nice and quickness really rocks and the earth invig doesn't really do much for me.
And the giants have both fairly high defense and prot but neither skyhigh so + 4 def or + 4 prot might be equal good

Why should I take E9 and not W9

The only reason I can think of is that E9 is not modified when getting swarmed while you could argue that with loads of attacks the +4 def isn't going to help anyway. Then again water has quickness so kills opponents faster I'd say.

and a son of fenrir with W9N6 dom 6 has a bit more points than a cyclops with E9N6 dom 6

'Which nature one I should take I'm not sure about becuase I'm DO want some decent scales (I'd love +3 order AND productivity) to keep pumping out niefelgiants AND a dominion of about 6 at least. Then again.. some extra supplies wouldn't hurt either..

I can go 3 cold and 3 misfortune of course

Re: Q about blessings
 

my options as I see it now war

imp cyclops E9N6
dom 5
order 3
prod 3
cold 3
growth 1
misfortune 3
drain/magic 0

OR

imp son of fenrir W9N6
dom 6
order 3
prod 3
cold 3
growth 1
misfortune 3
drain/magic 0

SO it's W9 and dom 6 or E9 and dom 5
all other things equal (son of fenrir and cyclops both reasonable combattants with the cyclops having the best equip options (the whole set of 7) and son of fenrir near 0 (only 2 misc)

Re: Q about blessings
 

go with the E9. The extra defence from water is worth almost nothing when swarmed(which happens alot to size 6 units) where-as the protection bonus and the ability to never tire make E9 extremely useful.
W9 will boost your killing power a little, but it's surviving+the cold aura that makes Niefels great.
An E9N4-9 Niefel Giant is extremely hard to take down and certainly much harder to take down than a W9N4-9 giant. In the long run, due to the survivability, the E9 giant will also probably do more damage.

Re: Q about blessings
 

The extra attacks aren't a big deal for the giants. The cold aura really does most of the damage. Since they're so big, they are easily swarmed so the Earth does a better job keeping them alive.

The reinvig is very nice for the Jarls, too.

As a side benefit, Earth is a path you don't have natively, so getting it on your pretender is a nice bonus (hammers), while you've got plenty of water mages.

Re: Q about blessings
 

Taking a W9 bless is probably not the best option for Big N. Most players will instead recommend a Earth or Nature Bless. Personally, I don't think the high bonuses (+4 protection and +2 beserk) are worth the pretender points. My "package" is usually a 4W, 6E, and 6N plus some other magic paths more for diversity then bless. Remember, you aren't just building Neifle giants Neifle Jarl thugs. Combine this bless with just a few items such as messenger boots and a sword of swiftness and cast quicken self and you have an instant thug capable of defeating any amount of PD (in the cold). This is where the Earth bless is really beneficial. And with so many HP their units get a lot of benefit from a regen bless.

Just keep in mind you can't have everything, a double high bless, positive scales, and an awake pretender. Heck, usually its choose one of three with various degrees of "lesser" options.

P.S. When you're playing Neifle 3, ALWAYS go cold-3. Thats how giants prefer it and it will hurt your income with anything else. I also would rather have growth then production.

Re: Q about blessings
 

Didnt someone say recently that a water bless extends the reach and power of chill effects? Maybe that was just for the pretender. Dunno.

Re: Q about blessings
 

I think water magic might increase chill auras(like with the breath of winter spell) but I don't thin a bless changes it.

Re: Q about blessings
 

Bless definitely doesn't change the reach of chill auras, but native chill auras do stack with magic bonuses, be they from items or magic. I still say w4 is probably worth it depending on chasis, because you can really start stacking the defense bonuses on Jarls and get them above the coveted 30.

P.S., don't just think about magic in terms of blesses, think about how magic paths might be synergized into a greater strategy. For example, Gift of Health is N5 and will improve your giants already impressive HP propotionally. Or, note how Winged Shoes need Air-2 to be built, but will dramatically increase a Jarl's mobility. Some Jarls will get Air-1, but never Air-2. At last, the only Air enhancing equipment requires Air-4 to build. So, maybe consider getting Air-4 on your pretender.

Re: Q about blessings
 

Well for magic, the race is pretty well into water and death so nature and earth are real additions with earth being pretty nice for quite some forging. My chassis are all pretty high priced for additional paths so air won't make it. I'd sooner take astral (and this I really thought about) but I chose not to)

I must admit that for niefelheim I AM mostly thinking about blesses because they are so bless-able http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

PS niefelheim has some options for bloodmagic but is that really a way to go?

Which research goals would you all set first?
I was thinking enchantment 3 for some raise dead/skeletons followed by thaum 1 for frighten.Then some construction 2 or 4 and then evocation 3

That covers most basic combat spells all my spell casters can use I think

Re: Q about blessings
 

Or Alteration for buffs for the Neifel Jarls if you want to get some out early on.

Re: Q about blessings
 

Blood hunting is almost always worth it if you have national blood mages. With Big N, it isn't quite the same as Mictlan. The Big N blood mage is 250 gold vs. 90 gold for Mictlan's little guy. Which means blood hunting is less economical and should be saved for later when you've already got some providences and a steady research going.

In general, the cost of Neifle's mages is a pretty big weakness and almost mandates building skull mentors.

As for research priorities, Construction, Alteration and Evocation. Probably also Conjuration for site searching. Construction-4 will let you deck out thugs and build skull mentors. Alteration is for Quicken self, Wolver Winter, and Soul Drain. Evocation is almost necessary to accompany your normal giant armies. Giants serve much better as damage absorvers then damage dealers and evocation spells like falling frosts are necessary to use them effectively.