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modders and shipset creators - please read
OK, Last night I uploaded a major update to my space vikings shipset. My shipset will include images for non-standard ship sizes like corvette, heavy destroyer, prospector and battle moon.
These extra images *can* be implemented without hardcode changes if modders are prepared to support them, and this is the beginning of my campaign to make it happen. Therefore I have started work on a reference table for shipset creators, which tracks all the different ship sizes used in the various mods. This table will show what images are needed for compatibilty with which shipsets. It also gives useful comparative data which may help you decide how each ship should look: For example size, speed, bonuses etc. Anyway, please look at the page on <A HREF="http://www.sandman43.fsnet.co.uk/vikingmoddata.htm">hull data</A> bearing the following in mind: - it isn't finished yet. I have a *lot* more data to put in and I have to make it more readable. - Shipset creators: Have I left anything out? What do you consider when designing each image? Also I would be interested to know if you have ever released any non-standard ship images. I believe S-J has released a battlemoon pic but I haven't had a chance to look at it yet. - modders: I have only included a few mods so far, and I may have mis-represented one of those. The standard and devnull data comes straight from the relevant vehiclesizes.txt files. I will do the same research for all the mods I cover, but you could save me some work by telling me how/ if your mod varies from the standard. -file names: If modders do begin to support extra ship images, it would make sense to have a single standard for filenames. (ie it would be a pain if one shipset used heavydestroyer and another called it hdestroyer) I would like my website to be the central reference for this standard, and so I have allocated some arbitrary (but logical) file names. If you have any opinions or prior work on this subject, please post here. I'll resurrect the space vikings thread, with a URL if you want to see what my additional images look like. ------------------ "Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?" "I think so Brain but, if you replace the P with an O, my name would be Oinky, wouldn't it?" |
Re: modders and shipset creators - please read
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Also I would be interested to know if you have ever released any non-standard ship images. I believe S-J has released a battlemoon pic but I haven't had a chance to look at it yet.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I've only added a single battlemoon pic (both mini and portrait) to the default race graphics.
All I did was copy one of the moon images from the pictures\stellar folder to the default AI folder, so its not very original artwork http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif I believe I just called it "mini_battlemoon", but since I'm at work, I can't confirm that as to caps & stuff. If you can read this, I'm not home yet. Just download v2, and check: the battlemoon is the only picture in the zip. ------------------ The latest info onPirates & Nomads (forum thread). -<Download V2.0>- -<Download V1.6>- -<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.6>- -<SJs latest AI Patcher>- Visit My Homepage |
Re: modders and shipset creators - please read
Thanks S_J. Have you created any mods other than P&N?
If I create a Viking battlemoon and encourage other shipset creators to do the same, do you think you will add support for race specific battlemoon pics in the mod? Or does it do that already? I could (and will) look at the files but it's easier just to ask=-) ------------------ "Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?" "I think so Brain but, if you replace the P with an O, my name would be Oinky, wouldn't it?" |
Re: modders and shipset creators - please read
Oops, yeah. I've got a second new shipsize, the Drop Pod. It can only be used by races with organic and religious tech, and holds a super commando (with a DUC for an arm and organic body armor). I believe I just used a pic from one of the other troops, but now that I've mentioned it, I will change it to use another pic, the same way as the BattleMoon.
The BattleMoon pic is placed in the generic/default race folder, so any race that does not have a battlemoon pic will use the one I copied. (Large, smoothish vaccuum-rock planet with the mean looking crater on it) Any race that includes their own battlemoon pic will use their personal one by default. Also, any race style that includes a battlemoon pic should be fully compatible with any other mod. I've really only made one mod, but there are breaks along the way. PiratesMod Pirates&Nomads v1 (current v1.6) Pirates&Nomads v2 (current v2.0) P&Nv2 is different from P&Nv1; it drastically changes the propulsion system, and introduces the battlemoon, so it becomes a totally different play style. You have to balance between small ships with few abilities, or expensive, 40 engine Dreadnaughts. Also, AIs for P&Nv2 require a textfile patch or they will not work properly; P&Nv1 AIs can work with only an altered .EMP file. ------------------ Instructions about Pirates & Nomads (forum thread). -<Download V2.0>- -<Download V1.6>- -<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.6>- -<SJs latest AI Patcher>- Visit My Homepage [This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 18 July 2001).] |
Re: modders and shipset creators - please read
Somone else has produced a race specific battlemoon pic? Damn, I wanted my shipset to be the first to offer non- standard ship images. Ah well.
OK, no probs. I'll get the default filname from your mod and that will be fine. I'm not sure how your propulsion systm will fit into my table though, since max. speed is the issue rather than number of engines. I take it each hull size still has a maximum speed limit.(not taking bonuses, solar sails etc into account) ------------------ "Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?" "I think so Brain but, if you replace the P with an O, my name would be Oinky, wouldn't it?" |
Re: modders and shipset creators - please read
Oh!, the BattleMoon has a bunch of abilities built into the hull:
(amounts from memory) -Supply storage (tens of thousands range) -Cargo storage (800KT) -Master Computer (can't be taken over by Allegiance Subverters and/or ComputerViruses) -maybe more, but I can't remember them. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Somone else has produced a race specific battlemoon pic? Damn, I wanted my shipset to be the first to offer non- standard ship images. Ah well.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't remember who, but it was a really cool pic. It had a organic-metallic looking shell, with a bigass coremount gunport. Oh, BTW, in case you needed to know, the CoreMount gives a 25x size, 50x damage to beam weapons, range boost of 4 or so, but suffers a 30% accuracy penalty. Everything else seems so wimpy compared to a 3,000 damage meson bLast or an 11K damage WMG http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>OK, no probs. I'll get the default filname from your mod and that will be fine. I'm not sure how your propulsion systm will fit into my table though, since max. speed is the issue rather than number of engines. I take it each hull size still has a maximum speed limit.(not taking bonuses, solar sails etc into account)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm afraid the propulsion system is even more distorted than you are assuming http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif. -There is NO bonus movement for ships. (higher tech engines provide more standard movement points) -There is no max engine limit (it is 42, since more can cause range check errors) -Solar sails provide standard movement only, but take up no fuel. -You can make ships go any speed you want, but the optimum warship speed is around 5-7 movement giving 3 or 4 in combat. (from playtesting) -Escorts go 1 MP per engine at beginning tech. Double the hull mass, halve the speed for the rest of the ships. CT engines give 1/3rd more movement, JP engines give 2/3rds more, Quantum engines give double movement. (thus, to go the same speed a 1500KT baseship needs 10 times the engines of a 150KT escort). Battlemoons go either 0 or 1MP (you need max CT engines just for 1MP, ion engines can't move it) I believe that LCs have the highest potential movement: With an MC3 (20KT) and 38 Quantum engines (380KT), you get 38*6/3(400kT/150kT) = 28.5 movement. At that speed, you can only travel for exactly three turns before you run out of fuel (burning 6*38*28=6,400 supplies per turn), and you have no weapons or defenses, and your ship costs about 8,000 radioactives. On quantum 1s, which are less fuel efficient, one turn of travel will leave you with insufficient supplies to return home. So, all the common small ships will go about 7 speed in actual play. There will be the occasional Superfast scout, but they are "mostly harmless". The small ships, with a 20KT MC, and the rest ion engines, will go: ES: 12 MP @ 3 EPM FG: 13.5 MP @ 4 EPM DS: 14 MP @ 6 EPM LC: 14.25 MP @ 8 EPM The big ships, with max ion engines (400kT worth) will go: CR: 500kT 12 MP @ 10 EPM BC: 600kT 10 MP @ 12 EPM BB: 800kT 7.5 MP @ 16 EPM DN: 1000KT 6 MP @ 20 EPM BS: 1500KT 4 MP @ 30 EPM BM: 10,000KT 0 MP @ 150 EPM With quantums, double that value, and make the BM go 1 MP. At best, with An LC & maxed quantum engines, the ship will go across 2 systems in one turn, equivalent to about half the speed of light. Don't know how much that helped, but that's how it works http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif ------------------ The latest info onPirates & Nomads (forum thread). -<Download V2.0>- -<Download V1.6>- -<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.6>- -<SJs latest AI Patcher>- Visit My Homepage [This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 18 July 2001).] [This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 18 July 2001).] |
Re: modders and shipset creators - please read
had a thought when i read about high movement potential on LCs below. i thought, what good is that? interceptors are cool, but they need punch. and if it does not spend much space on armor or weapons, its going to be a throw away ship. its not like speed makes you harder to hit, although with some long range missiles you could do hit and run tactics.
and then i thought, man, it would be cool if a faster ship did more damage when ramming. but the game does not work that way. Then it hit me: Build in bonus ramming damage (cobalt kamakazi warhead thing) to each engine, doing more damage for bigger engines. same for solar sail, and same for afterburners. that will figure that you will hit at your max speed, and the faster you go the more damage you do. now, while F=MA, and this does not figure for M, you can let that ballance out by the higher damage resistance of a larger ship, or maybe building in damage potential to the hulls in the same way. then i guess it would be f=m+a which isnt quite the same, but probably as good as it could get. ------------------ "...the green, sticky spawn of the stars" (with apologies to H.P.L.) |
Re: modders and shipset creators - please read
A most excellent idea!
(though there is a problem with your physics) F=MA. It looked like you were using F= force of the crash, M= mass of the ship, A= acceleration due to engines. The engines aren't used during the crash; the acceleration is from the two hulls meeting. If you knew the acceleration caused by the impact (eg. 1000 KM/s to zero in 0.1 seconds), then you'd know the force. A more useful measure for damage in this case is probably kinetic energy. E=0.5 M V^2 A warhead damage of 10 or so per engine would not guarantee your own ship's destruction, but cost the enemy more hitpoints. Plus, in P&N v2, it would be damage = mass x Speed (Real Life: damage = mass x (speed ^2)) (SE4 classic: damage = speed) Expect to see this in P&Nv2.1, along with more armor types & some minor changes. PS: to create a hyperlink, use [ url=www.shrapnelgames.com]ClickMe[/url] without the leading space. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>REPAIRED LINK: Anyway, please look at the page on hull data bearing the following in mind:<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ------------------ The latest info onPirates & Nomads (forum thread). -<Download V2.0>- -<Download V1.6>- -<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.6>- -<SJs latest AI Patcher>- Visit My Homepage [This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 18 July 2001).] |
Re: modders and shipset creators - please read
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
The BattleMoon pic is placed in the generic/default race folder, so any race that does not have a battlemoon pic will use the one I copied. (Large, smoothish vaccuum-rock planet with the mean looking crater on it) Any race that includes their own battlemoon pic will use their personal one by default. Also, any race style that includes a battlemoon pic should be fully compatible with any other mod. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That must be made a rule for any new vehicle size that uses a new picture. Even if you make a custom picture for every shipset and neutral players are not likely to use this size, the picture in the RaceGeneric dir is indispensable because it will be used by any new shipset you add. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> These extra images *can* be implemented without hardcode changes if modders are prepared to support them, and this is the beginning of my campaign to make it happen. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The main problems with new sizes are first that some AI may not be prepared to use some of the new sizes (for example I had to add a new item in all designcreation files to make my infantry work) and will be in disadvantage, and second the lack of new pictures for shipsets not specifically prepared. That will force you to use only pics in the RaceGeneric dir or use the same pic of other shipsize. There is a third alternative that is copying and renaming one of the default sizes to make the new size picture (IIRC some people did this to make the baseship use a different picture from the starbase, if you look around you'll find some shipsets include a baseship picture), but of course that if you have many shipsets and many new sizes this would be too much work and having two identical files with different names in every directory looks like a waste of hardrive space, and will make the "more vehicle sizes" mod file unnecessarily big. BTW, some time ago there was a post in se4@yahooGroups with a suggested list of vehiclesizes and Kt of each. I have erased it from my system, but will check history in yahoGroups web site to find it. I have a few new sizes in my starwars mod. * Infantry: Some players have asked for this size and I believe it will be a great addition to your chart. Note that it's useless without the specific custom components (Infantry Rifles). The custom pic in the default race dir comes from the boarding party comp with changed colors to match neutral race shipset. Also some of my shipsets have specific infantry pics. And these are very specific of the starwars mod (only available for players with a specific racial advantage) and I'm not sure if suitable for more general mod. * TIE Fighter, TIE Bomber and TIE Advanced are fighters that can only have 2 engines but have combat movement bonus and are fast in battle, these sizes use fighter pics. * Small, Medium and Large Death Star may be similar to battlemoons, I have use 3 different custom pics in the default race dir. Andrés Lescano The StarWars mod http://se4kdy.cyberwars.com/tech/sw-mod/ The main index of my site http://se4kdy.cyberwars.com/ |
Re: modders and shipset creators - please read
Sounds good to me.
------------------ "We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats! They invade our space and we fall back -- they assimilate entire worlds and we fall back! Not again! The line must be drawn here -- this far, no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!" -- Captain Picard STNG New Age Ship Yards |
Re: modders and shipset creators - please read
[quote]Originally posted by Andrés Lescano:
some AI may not be prepared to use some of the new sizes Fair enough, but thaa's not my problem. I'm just worried about the images, not the AI. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Many mods do alter vehiclesizes.txt, and I'm just catering for them. [quote]Originally posted by Andrés Lescano: There is a third alternative that is copying and renaming one of the default sizes to make the new size picture ... too much work ... a waste of hardrive space ... will make the "more vehicle sizes" mod file unnecessarily big. Well, the work would only have to be done once, by the modder. As for the file size - I can't disagree, but your average HD won't notice an extra 5 or even 15 meg. The download would be a pain but it would only be a one off- and remember that zipping a .bmp file will take 70 or 80% off of it's size. Someone could even create a batch file to generate all the duplicate images locally on the user's machine. As long as there are default images though it doesn't really matter if each race has the extra images or not. Any mod which includes default images might as well point to the race directory first, just in case a special image is available. [quote]Originally posted by Andrés Lescano: BTW, some time ago there was a post in se4@yahooGroups with a suggested list of vehiclesizes and Kt of each. Sounds interesting. Thanks. [quote]Originally posted by Andrés Lescano: I have a few new sizes in my starwars mod. * Infantry: ... And these are very specific of the starwars mod OK, well if any other modders want to use infantry, I'll try to get them to use the same filenames as you, so any shipsets which include the picture will be compatible with a larger number of mods. [quote]Originally posted by Andrés Lescano: * TIE Fighter, TIE Bomber and TIE Advanced are fighters that can only have 2 engines but have combat movement bonus and are fast in battle, these sizes use fighter pics. OK, I'll look at the vehiclesizes.txt of your mod. Yours isn't the only mod to use extra fighter sizes, so there might be a clash there already. [quote]Originally posted by Andrés Lescano: * Small, Medium and Large Death Star may be similar to battlemoons, I have use 3 different custom pics in the default race dir. OK, another clash. I'd like to agree a common filename for battlemoon / death star images so that the Star Wars and P&N mods could share images. Thanks for all the data, anyway. I will update the table to include *all* the entries in *all* the vehiclesizes.txt files mentioned so far. It might be several days until I can get it uploaded so bear with me. I'll also include links to each mod's homepage, unless I receive objections. Furthermore, with the permission of the authors I'd like to create a central "bank" of default vehicle images for non-standard ships and units. Thanks for your help everyone, keep them coming in. I'd like some confirmation from TDM that the standard vehilesizes.txt isn't altered in their mod - That would be in keeping with your "non- interference" policy wouldn't it? What about all those other mods? Haven't heard from Spoogy in a while, and I seem to recall a zippy mod? There must be more besides. C'mon people, it's not often I get this motivatd... ------------------ "Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?" "I think so Brain but, if you replace the P with an O, my name would be Oinky, wouldn't it?" |
Re: modders and shipset creators - please read
Suicide_Junkie
Still looking through your mod... there are some more sizes you didn't mention: Resource Base Resource Ship Massive fighter Drop Pod These will all be added into the table, since some people might want to create custom images for these. For example, your resource base and resource ship could use images designed for Devnullmod's mining base and prospector ships. There are also at least 2 other mods with extra fighter sizes. If I can persuade you all to use the same filename for these ships in your mods, each mod would benefit from extra images designed for the others. You see? I don't think I've been explaining this concept very well from the start. Say I create a shipset with a battlemoon pic for the P&N mod. I would name it race_battlemoon_portrait.bmp and it would work fine. However, if someone wants to use my race in Andres' Star Wars Mod, they'll want to use the battlemoon as a Death Star. Unfortunately, the Star Wars mod might require the filename "race_DeathStar_portrait.bmp" - what then? That's what my webpage is for. If modders can agree on some standard filenames, shipset creators will be encouraged to put in those extra images and modders will be able to produce far prettier mods. Of course, you're going to say "But what about the races that don't have specialised image?" Simple: Create additional default generic pictures by copying and renaming the generic pics. (Pretty much as you have with the battlemoon) If you like you could also copy and rename pics for for all unsupported races in your mod, if you want them to look specific rather than generic. Sorry if I'm starting to sound preachy, but I'm a man with a mission now... I have already drawn a prospector for my viking set. Please take a look at Space Vikings! ------------------ "Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?" "I think so Brain but, if you replace the P with an O, my name would be Oinky, wouldn't it?" |
Re: modders and shipset creators - please read
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Still looking through your mod... there are some more sizes you didn't mention:
Resource Base Resource Ship Massive fighter Drop Pod<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I did mention the drop pod, but it was an edit, so you may have missed it. P&N special shipsizes -Resource Base -Resource Ship -Heavy Fighter -Massive Fighter -Drop Pod -BattleMoon The nomads get a bonus two levels in fighter tech, so they have two extra fighter sizes. I did note that others were mentioning "infantry", and having a handweapons component. IMO, there should be an infantry component, which you put in drop pods or landing craft of some sort. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I don't think I've been explaining this concept very well from the start. Say I create a shipset with a battlemoon pic for the P&N mod. I would name it race_battlemoon_portrait.bmp and it would work fine. However, if someone wants to use my race in Andres' Star Wars Mod, they'll want to use the battlemoon as a Death Star. Unfortunately, the Star Wars mod might require the filename "race_DeathStar_portrait.bmp" - what then? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I suggest we forget about using the terminology of any one mod. Instead of calling the picture "battlemoon" or "deathstar", make it "Large base ship" Terminology from classic SE4 is best; How about this: Use the closest term from SE4, then add a prefix of "Small"/"Medium"/"Large"/"Heavy"/"Massive" to indicate size (from standard ship sizes plus weapon mount names) I don't think that many mods would have more than 5 Versions of any one thing. We would get "Remote Miner" for prospectors and resource ships, "Large BaseShip","Heavy BaseShip","Massive BaseShip" for the DeathStar sizes. Battlemoons could use "Massive BaseShip" ------------------ The latest info onPirates & Nomads (forum thread). -<Download V2.0>- -<Download V1.6>- -<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.6>- -<SJs latest AI Patcher>- Visit My Homepage [This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 19 July 2001).] |
Re: modders and shipset creators - please read
- Drop pod : missed the edit, I'll go back for it.
- Heavy Fighter : Spotted it, thanks. I've got all the P&N sizes into the table now, maybe I'll get time to upload it tonight. QUOTE: I did note that others were mentioning "infantry", and having a handweapons component. IMO, there should be an infantry component, which you put in drop pods or landing craft of some sort. /QUOTE Oh I see what you mean... Isn't that kind of what we have now, with the troop transport carrying the troop units? I like the idea of an infantry unit which can be armed with hand weapons - it would be very useful for primitive mods. (Design an infantry unit with the latest in "pointy stick" technology=-) QUOTE: I suggest we forget about using the terminology of any one mod .... "Small"/"Medium"/"Large"/"Heavy"/"Massive" /QUOTE This makes good sense for units, transports, carriers etc. I think we might need to include "tiny" on that list as well in case ppl decide to go smaller. What about warships? Is a Corvette a small frigate or a large escort? There will need to be some exceptions to the rule. For example I think I prefer "infantry" to "tiny troop". QUOTE: "Large BaseShip","Heavy BaseShip","Massive BaseShip" for the DeathStar sizes. Battlemoons could use "Massive BaseShip" /QUOTE okaaaay... So Devnull's super monitor would be a large baseship... yeah, that all makes sense. Good thinking. Any other modders in ageement with all this? Andres, what do you think? |
Re: modders and shipset creators - please read
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>For example I think I prefer "infantry" to "tiny troop".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I think they would perfer it as well. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon10.gif
"Sgt. Rock, 6th Army corp, 42nd Tiny Troop Division" just doesn't sound all that tough if you ask me. Geo [This message has been edited by geoschmo (edited 19 July 2001).] |
Re: modders and shipset creators - please read
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Oh I see what you mean... Isn't that kind of what we have now, with the troop transport carrying the troop units? I like the idea of an infantry unit which can be armed with hand weapons - it would be very useful for primitive mods. (Design an infantry unit with the latest in "pointy stick" technology=-)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>By landing craft, I mean the little things that carry 12 guys and go down through the atmosphere to land on the beach... same idea as a drop pod (except reusable)
You'd have your 1kT Landing Craft vehicle, and put an "Ewok SpearThrowers" component in there, or a "Medieval Knights" component. PS: And I do acknowledge the fact that some things will have to be exceptions, but we want to keep it as close as possible to avoid confusion. ------------------ The latest info onPirates & Nomads (forum thread). -<Download V2.0>- -<Download V1.6>- -<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.6>- -<SJs latest AI Patcher>- Visit My Homepage [This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 19 July 2001).] |
Re: modders and shipset creators - please read
SJ I just realized what you mean. It’s more a question on how troops are launched than if smaller troops should be drop pods or the troopers themselves.
I believe you’re saying that troops are launched by the transport in space and have to land on the planet by their own means. So then it would be impossible for a single trooper unless it’s equipped with an extremely advanced space suit to land. A drop pod sounds better. What I don’t like is seeing pods in the ground combat window. Another question is how do troops are transferred again to the transport. Can they “jump” from the planet by themselves? However it’s possible that troops aren’t literally “dropped” but reach the planet by other means. For example the transport can land on the planet and open the door to let troops walk away, some startrek-like beam, or invisible drop pods or shuttles. The same mean is probably also used for all other cargo transfers. Then there would be no problem with infantry. Of course that 1 kt (1,000,000 kg) is completely out of scale for a single trooper, but the game just doesn’t allow to make a vehiclesize of 0.0001 kt or less. Imagine that each infantry represents a complete division + equipment. On another note I like the idea of using more “neutral” names for new sizes. Do we agree to use LargeBaseShip, HeavyBaseShip, MassiveBaseShip as bitmap names for larger than baseship sizes? If so I’ll rename them (at least file names but not the name shown to players) next time I update my mod. Oh and I believe that maximum allowed tonnage is 65535, more than 43 times larger than a baseship, so maybe we should consider the possibility of having more than 3 larger-than-baseship sizes. Oh and the sizes I remembered from the email group (it used to be egroup but now it’s yahoogroup) were early drafts of Dave's Mod. Most of them are also in Devnullmod, but not all of them for example this smaller-than-escort Scout, so I though you’d like to take a look anyway. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Tonnage Scout 100* Corvette 250* Escort 150 Frigate 200 Destroyer 300 Light Cruiser 400 Cruiser 500 Battle Cruiser 600 Heavy Cruiser 750* Battleship 800 Sub-Dreadnought 900* Dreadnought 1000 Super-Dreadnought 1300* Titan I don't really like the name for any of these three...Any better ideas? Mega-Titan also any better ideas for sizes? I don't like going above the baseship size Colossus for these Baseship 1500 --- Courier (transport) 200* Small Transport 300 Medium Transport 600 Large Transport 900 Mega Transport 1000 --- Escort Carrier 500* Light Carrier 800 Medium Carrier 1000 Heavy Carrier 1200 Mega Carrier 1500* --- Light Colony Ship Any special reason to have different sized colony ships? Colony Ship Heavy Colony Ship Mega Colony Ship --- Space Station 500 Battlestation 1500 Starbase 2500 Star Fortress 2000* Doom Star 3000* Ultra Station 4000* This should take FOREVER to build --- Small Fighter 15 Medium Fighter 20 Heavy Fighter 25 Light Bomber 30* Medium Bomber 40* Heavy Bomber 50* For the bombers, I would probably do decreasing number of maximum engines, so that the heavy bomber is SLOW --- Light Troop 10 Medium Troop 15 Heavy Troop 20 Hover Tank 35* Heavy Tank 50* Anything followed by an * is my ideas; otherwise, its official game stuff from SE4 For graphics for new ships, I am terrible at bitmaps, so I doubt I could do other graphics, especcially for new things like bombers and tanks, where it would really be good, but I can easily do the data files, and will do so in the next couple of days. If anyone has any suggestions, send them my way Dave <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> |
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There's an unused ability in the abilities.txt file called 'drop troops'. Apparently there was supposed to be a special bay like for launching fighters, but for dropping troops. The sheer numbers of troops you have to drop to take a large or huge planet apparently made that impractical.
Personally, I'm still requesting a 'Robotech-style' combination troop/fighter vehicle. Imagine how cool to have a carrier that launches hundreds of dual-purpose vehicles. They attack the defending fleet and THEN take the planet without having to haul a bunch of troops in a seperate ship! This could be very powerful, of course. It ought to be a racial tech that costs some points. But it would be so much fun to have! |
Re: modders and shipset creators - please read
!I don't if you know this but you can give ship certain bulit advantaces, not just 40% change of hitting kind of thing - but other things like bulit in bridge, this could open the door to things like organic star ships and probe. Why dose'nt the drone work? I tried to added it but it would have any of it!
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Re: modders and shipset creators - please read
How about Monitor, Super Monitor
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Andrés Lescano: Super-Dreadnought 1300* Titan I don't really like the name for any of these three...Any better ideas? Mega-Titan <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>[/b][/quote] |
Re: modders and shipset creators - please read
Hey baron, I wanted troops/fighters to. I made em, just a troop with the ability to be luanced. They would work if it wasn't for the fact that you can only launch fighters mines and sats. Stupid code.
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Re: modders and shipset creators - please read
Thanks for all that info Andres. It will be useful when negotiating new filenames.
I've come to some conclusions: I think I will also be using some mod-specific terminology. I see your point S_J but I have several reasons for this: 1> the naming conventions in SE4 aren't particularly logical anyway (ie carrierlight but lightcruiser) 2>I imagine the majority of additional ship sizes will be mod-specific. Shared images won't be all that common, except for fighters and infantry, which everyone wants. 3>Making the table compatible with mods rather than forcing mods to be compatible with the table means less work and restrictions for modders. 4>Imposing arbitrary guidelines may give modders the impression that I am trying to control their creativity. 5>Giving modders the opportunity to make their filename the "official" one adds incentive and character to the table. Also I'm splitting up the battlemoons and the giant baseships because they are very different in appearance (one is big, round and planet-like and the other would probably be more spaceship shaped.) Death Stars and battlemoons could share images, since they would look quite similar (big, round), I believe the standard, devnull, P&N and SW sizes will form a good foundation for my table - other mods are unlikely to include much that isn't included in the above, and if they do then I have left room to accomodate them. I therefore suggest the following set of filenames: all standard filenames (obviously) transportcourier carrierescort colonyark miningship (resource ship, remote miner) miningstation (resource station, mining station) barge (Stellar manipulation barge. I considered putting this under small death star, but one is a warstation and the other a contruction ship, so I decided they were too different.) 3 larger fighter sizes, not sure about the filenames yet. (These will cover all the heavy fighters, fighter bombers and TIE fighters) troopinfantry (SW infantry and P&N drop pod) corvette heavydestroyer heavycruiser superdreadnought supermonitor battlemoonsmall (small death star) battlemoon (medium deathstar, P&N battlemoon) battlemoonlarge (large death star) Andres - note I have used battlemoon rather than Death Star. Malfador/ Shrapnel are unable to include Star Wars/ Trek etc mods for copyright reasons. I thought it would be a good idea if I followed the same rules. Once these filenames have been agreed on (after debate and adjustment if necessary) I will update the website and start to integrate some other mods. ------------------ "Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?" "I think so Brain but, if you replace the P with an O, my name would be Oinky, wouldn't it?" |
Re: modders and shipset creators - please read
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Andres - note I have used battlemoon rather than Death Star. Malfador/ Shrapnel are unable to include Star Wars/ Trek etc mods for copyright reasons. I thought it would be a good idea if I followed the same rules.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Just so you know, BattleMoons are from ShadowRaiders the TV show. I've also already converted my mod to the Massive_baseship filename.
1> the naming conventions: They may not be logical, but you've got to start somewhere. You are creating a standard... if it takes off, it may even be adopted by MM/Aaron/Classic SE4. 2>I imagine the majority of additional ship sizes will be mod-specific. Shared images won't be all that common, except for fighters and infantry, which everyone wants. If a mod comes out with a cool new shipsize that needs a separate picture, I can pretty much guarantee that there will be many more mods incorporating it shortly after. 3>Making the table compatible with mods rather than forcing mods to be compatible with the table means less work and restrictions for modders. True, but it also means a mishmash of picture files and a lot more work for the people who create the shipsets. 4>Imposing arbitrary guidelines may give modders the impression that I am trying to control their creativity. I would not think so... You are only providing a guideline for the filenames, the names of the shipsizes in the game is independent of the filename, so what the player sees will be what the modder wants them to see. Your filename guideline will just ensure that their mod is compatible with the shipsets. 5>Giving modders the opportunity to make their filename the "official" one adds incentive and character to the table. Just be sure there is a balance between 'character' and total chaos. Remember that the filenames have absolutely no affect on the game, from the player's point of view. IMO, it is easier for modders to update their mods to reflect your shipset standards (one line in the vehiclesize.txt), rather than the shipset creators updating shipsets. ------------------ The latest info onPirates & Nomads (forum thread). -<Download V2.0>- -<Download V1.6>- -<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.6>- -<SJs latest AI Patcher>- Visit My Homepage [This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 23 July 2001).] |
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