Magic For Dummies?
 

I have spent some time looking around the forums for some general tips on magic strategy. While there are lots of pieces here and there, and much is obviously context-specific such as strategies for certain nations and ages, I would love to hear some general tips from the pros (or links to other relevant threads). If it must be context-specific, then I would throw out MA Ulm / EA Neifelheim / LA Jormon as examples where I could use some advice.

Questions:
Do you generally focus on:
1. construction to outfit your commanders/Pretender
2. conjuration for more units
3. evocation for some battle spells
4. others?

Is there a commonly used path eg construction to 4 for magic boosters, then evocation for battle spells?
It seems magic research paths should be an essential part of strategy for each nation / pretender combo and I am sure there are an infinite variety but that is what is getting me in to trouble – I do not even know where to start.

Thanks!

Re: Magic For Dummies?
 

Most common is to research the site search spells first (Thau 2, Evoc 2, Conj 3 I believe it was) before doing something specific, but you can gun for something more important to boost your province grabbing, too, like Buff spells (Alt/Ench) for an imprisoned SC pretender, Bladewind/Thunderstrike for Ulm/Caelum and so on. But in general your question can't be answered like this. You aim for something specific, which may be to protect against an enemy or enhance your battle prowess, that's all. What you never should do is to divide research except if next turn the gauge will be full, then you can split off the excess research to another one.

Re: Magic For Dummies?
 

It really is best if you're focusing on a specific nation, but here's my attempt to be general.

1). Focus on construction if you one of the following a). have a melee commander with over 30 hitpoints available b). a good gem income, easily produced boosters, and mages who can benefit from another level c). a supercombatant pretender d). easily available forge bonus

2). I focus on conjuration after considering the following factors: a). surplus of gems b). lack of gold - lots of wastelands. c). versatile mages versus very focused mages d). specific national lack e). national gem income f). special national summons

It's two different decisions to focus on conjuration before and during a game. The more versatile your mages are, the more successful a conjuration strategy is going to be. For instance, LA Atlantis reliably gets only two paths of magic, water and death. But that's no guarantee you're going to get a high death or water income in your first fifteen provinces. Eventually, you'll have a solid income, but early on it may not be there for you at the necessary mass for conjuration- especially if you wasted gems on unsuccessful dark knowledges. On the other hand, EA Yomi has ready access to fire, earth, death, and some nature. With minors in air. You're almost guaranteed to have a surplus in at least one type of gem- especially with EA's site density.

During the game, one of my priorities is often to get a few (three, four at very most) cheap, sacred, versatile low-level mages (WD Tungalik for Atlantis) searching every territory I own physically. As Yomi, however, I send just a few high level mages to search all the immediately adjacent provinces to my capital - approx. six, - see the income, and then think about remote site searching.

Once I see where I've got surplus gems, I see what conjurations I could cast, which will mesh with my forces, who I might be at war with, and analyze from there. Regardless of my decision, I almost always research up to level two or three at least, for site searching and spells like Summon Earthpower.

Re: Magic For Dummies?
 

Well, I wouldn't bother with researching buff spells early for an imprisoned SC pretender.

But, yes in general it's site search spells, at least for those I have paths and capital income for, then if my troops are decent Const 4 for the first boosters, then either summons or battle magic based on my mages.

SCs usually wait a little, but if I've got recruitable thugs they'll start getting cheap objects right away.

Re: Magic For Dummies?
 

This really depends on nation. The only rule that I've found over all nations is "when in doubt, research". By the time you reach the part of the game where that rule breaks down, you know why you are breaking the rule.

For ULM, for example, you want conj 3 and evo 4 as quickly as possible for summon earthpower and blade-whatchacallit. Those two spells turn your smiths into combat machines against large armies. After that, construction is your main priority.

But other races are totally different. They may vary also depending on your pretender. You really need to research your race, find a few spells that you want to cast, and work from there. It's really a matter of experience, I think.

-Jeff

Re: Magic For Dummies?
 

It depends. Let's say your an armour heavy nation that's worried about being elephant rushed, and you have Astral using research mages. Well, researching Thaumaturgy-2 is going to give those mages Communioned Mind Burn, which will help alot against elephants.

Re: Magic For Dummies?
 

I find Ulm is usually much better served by destruction as opposed to blade wind, actually. Their flail troops (or massed archers if you meant EA ulm...late isn't good with the earth magics) do pretty well taking out anything that blade wind would do a ton of damage to (with some exceptions of course, Jaguar warriors come to mind...Maybe elephants to force morale rolls, though I'd probably want bonds of fire instead of BW). Destruction works great on stuff that flails/bows aren't so good on, like anything with good prot values.

I also wouldn't go after elephants before you get to paralyze, mind burn isn't gonna do nearly enough damage to em, whereas paralyze is as almost good as killing them (and you will kill them as long as you win the battle). Communioning for mind burn is also...umm, yeah, just don't do that.

Re: Magic For Dummies?
 

In multiplayer, diplomacy is involved, and my research is often decided by my opponents.

Destruction is good for Ulm's flails, yeah, but if you a low-prot, chaff-heavy nation like R'lyeh to wage war, Blade Wind is great. Destruction's generally more versatile, though.

In the early game, I won't go beyond four just to counter a specific opponent. In the mid game or an overly long early war, I'll consider going from 3/4 to six just for one opponent.

I generally get the essentials for my race up to level 3 (site seeking, earthpower, for instance) and then focus on a school of magic that gives me a lot of options and/or dovetails with a specific strategy (yomi - darkness, ma agartha earth blood deep well with lots of golems). I deviate every now and then to get a lesser school up to two, or counter a specific opponent. Or, I focus on the essentials, then focus on the basic spells. For instance, I want at least Attentive Statues to be available for MA Agartha before I waste time and gems on remote site searching.

Re: Magic For Dummies?
 

Not the best player around, so take with a grain of salt.

I'd say that your research strategy should NEVER be general. There are some general rules of thumb to follow in certain situations, but in order to use magic effectively you have to take into account who is around you and what kind of enemy you are likely to be facing.

If you are near an aggressive player, going for research/magic boosters or Site Searching magic is a risk because if they decide to attack you early and have researched some nice battle spells it doesnt matter if you have the long term advantage of better research/more gem income because you will be dead.

On the other hand, if you are good at 'keeping the peace' you can get a decided gem income and research advantage by going for those paths first.

Everything depends on your neighbors, your nation, and your overall strategy.

Re: Magic For Dummies?
 

Actually I meant dormant. And then it is a very viable solution to have the most common and most important buffs ready exactly when the pretender awakens. He'll take one province every turn from then on and scare off others, too.

Re: Magic For Dummies?
 

I know you don't want to hear this. But what you research is really based upon your nation, your pretender and your gem income.

For instance in one of my multi player games I am MA MAN. I had 1 major goal, and that was to get gift of health up before the second winter so that way I could coninue recruiting witches every turn without fear of disease from their severe old age. My nation has misfortune 2, combined with order 3. I get some very tough random attacks from knights. Not even PD 25 can stop these random knight attacks. But I have created a reactionary force of Avaonian knights with gift of health up they have incredible hits and can take out the knights on the next round with few if any losses. I actually researched alteration 5 first in order to get the great oak up and then raced to enchantment 5 to get gift of health up. That goal was reached on turn 21, before the second turn of winter.

A solid magic strategy for Niefelheim is researching constrution to 4 right away. Use your gems to outfit your 500 gold Niefel commanders. Give your Pretender a decent bless like Earth 9, Nature (6-9). Then concentrate on getting certain spells for your commanders: Quickness, soul vortex, breath of winter, cloud trapeze and mist form for those rare A2 giants. Once you have your base spells covered then you want to look at your situation. Look at your gem income and random sights. Have a large death gem income? You could start going up the conjuration tree looking at Well of misery. Large nature gem income? Gift of health is great to heal of your wounded commanders. Not to mention the health bonus they get fighting in your dominion. Large earth gem income... Forge of the ancients is a win spell if you can keep it up for any amount of time.

As for MA ULM-this is not the best way, just one way to show you how to plan your magic. Take an awake Cyclops with E6,N2. On turn 1 Cyclops forges blacksteel shield, On turn 2 use the smith you bought on turn 1 to forge a sword of sharpness. On turn 3 send your Cyclops out with your Sword and Shield and conquer indep. Meanwhile your army is heading another way. Recruit a smith every turn and head for Thaughtmaturgy 2 for the sight searching spells. when you get it, make sure you search every province for Earth.This whole strategy centers on focusing on earth. Next you want enchant 2 in order to give your Cyclops the regeneration spell.Then switch to construction 2 and fill out your Cyclops' equipment. After that you want conjuration 3 for summon earth power. Finally, head to enchantment 6(or is it 7?) in order to have your Cyclops cast Earthblood deepwell. This will give you a large earth income. Have your cyclops start spamming enchant statues while heading for construction 9 for your final goal of spreading mechanical dragons everywhere. This strategy is very effective because all your efforts are focused. But, most likely you lose the end game because you are not diversified enough.

LA Jomon: Again, this is not the ultimate strategy, just something to show you how to develop a magical plan. Take a sleeping Phoenix with A4,F4. Recruit and expand with nothing but Samurai Archers. research to thaut 2 for your sight searching spells. Next goal is ennchantment 4 for fire arrows. When your pretender awakes take your archer army and attack one of your neighbors. supply your phoenix with enough gems to cast fire arrows multiple times and watch the carnage. research up further and get arrow fend then switch to alteration 5 for wind guide.

Re: Magic For Dummies?
 

Thanks everyone for all the thoughts. Rytek your advice is very helpful, especially as an illustration of how to think about planning. The tough part as a noob is knowing what is worth aiming for and your tips will help.

Re: Magic For Dummies?
 

If you have a nation with a strong focus in a particular magic path, a good strategy is to aim for one of the gem generator spells. For example, Mother Oak is only Alt-5, and if you research nothing but Alteration, you can get it well before the end of the second year. No-one is likely to dispel it. Best of all, you can pick up protection and swarm on the way.

Re: Magic For Dummies?
 

That's a turtle strategy though. If somebody sees that global go up he might consider attacking because he knows you haven't researched anything useful in combat. IMHO site searching is more useful long term than wasting gems on those spells, too.

Re: Magic For Dummies?
 

Not always, Ich. For a few nations, there is a certain easily countered overlap. MA Agartha needs enchantment for Earth Blood Deep Well and their golems. As soon as your opponent sees Earth Blood Deep Well go up, they'll make opposition a priority (if astral nation). Late era Agartha has all its undead conjurations, and Well of Misery is conjuration also. To counter that, all they need is Dust to Dust (though Sepulchrals and Cave Wights are tougher than regular Wights), or Wither Bones, not to mention Undead Mastery.

Re: Magic For Dummies?
 

Yes, the gem generators are spread out. I wouldn't consider it to be a sign of weakness to show a strong evocation or conjuration research level, and those are two of the better gem generators.

Re: Magic For Dummies?
 

To carry on with the subject matter....

In a battle, how do you determine the order in which the mages cast spells? Is it from the top mage down in the battle settings? So that you can make, say for example, your very first mage to be the one casting storm so that the rest can benefit etc...

Re: Magic For Dummies?
 

I think that is exactly the case. Top down. Note the use of the word think.

Re: Magic For Dummies?
 

The top-down thing can be annoying when you want to have a lower mage casting first(ie, you have a mage who can cast storm and a load who would benefit, but your storm capable mage is near the bottom).

Re: Magic For Dummies?
 

Alteration 5 for man seems to be a no brainer for me. Mother Oak, Wind guide, that dragonfly spell in huge numbers as well as phantasmal army spells. Not to mention the buff spells for your pretender if you have one awake... The trek up the enchantment tree is a vulnerable period. But its too late once you get the gift of health up. And then you are just one level away from arrow fend.. You also get fire arrows, which is very hard to make use of, unless you have fire on your pretender or perhaps a lucky enchantress...