King of the Isle (finished)
 

This game is on my World of Geometry (the final .map file and tga are on the maps & mods forum, I won't change anything just fix eventual connection/terrains/command errors untill game start).

This game will start the first week of december.

There are 12 starting locations on the map : 10 land and 2 sea nations, and I hope all will be fullfilled.

The game will be PBEM and the settings...
- VC : 3 cumulative victory points, no added VPs (there is only one VP, the Isle of Eternia ; and the isle is hard to take and harder to defend, as it's connected with 10 provinces, 3 cvp may mean a relatively long game if there is some competition)
- Middle Age
- nations : free choice (first to speak first served)
- Indie Strength : 6 (with all the special encounters and bonus garrisons no need of a high setting)
- HoF : 15
- site frequency : a little more than normal (50)
- master password : (no need on llamaserver)
- renaming allowed
- other settings default
- mod : Worthy Heroes 1.8
- graphs : On
- house rules : finally no house rule about forts building on the isle but one I think everybody will agree for :
For the 5 first turns, turn will be rehosted if someone suffer a game breaking event - events considered game breaking are only : Bogus, vampire count or other indies succeeding to take the capitol, plague or exodus in the capitol, or a religious event dominion killing the nation ; unrest events and other little annoyances aren't concerned -

- pace : one turn = 24h for the moment (48h after 10-15 turns/once someone ask, 72 when empires will be big)

Stale rule :
-third non announced stale turn --> AI (but if someone can't play and ask for a reasonable delay -not 37 days :p - I will differ the turn of course)
-if you want to stop please tell us before, we'll rather try to find a sub

Note that it's the first dom III game I host.


Players :
- me (Arcocephale)
- Herode (C'Tis)
- davidd (Machaka)
- Solmyr (Atlantis) -> no longer playing
- DryaUnda (Ulm)
- LDICesare (Eriu) -> destroyed
- Indyependant (Ermor)
- Zeldor (Man)
- Tharsonius (Rlyeh) -> A.I (!?)
- Ubercat (Jotunheim) -> A.I
- Mathusalem (Caelum) -> A.I
- Ferrosol (Bandar Log) -> replaced by Gregstorm


EDIT : The game will be hosted on llamaserver, so you don't need to send me anything, send your pretenders to pretenders(at)llamaserver(dot)net with KingoftheIsle as the subject, if possible for tomorrow so we can start the 1/12.

- and it's finally useless to give them a password -

(llamaserver FAQ)


PS : everyone must rename the "worldofgeometry.tga" --> "worldofgeometry2.tga" (I'll use a map file with this name, so Zeldor and Tharsonius will have no problem to play another game with the older version)

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

If it is 2 weeks until start count me in as atlantis or Oceania (the one that gets picked last by other players). If it starts before I might have to step down.

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

I've read bad things about Ulm, so I'll give Ulm a try. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

Hum, the DangerPudding game is already using your map, Twan... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif Although it is not using a VP victory. But for feedback on the map it should serve the same purpose.

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

Ok we won't start before the beginning of december (if possible the first week-end, to make 1 or more turns the first days).

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

Wow, you were fast to use it (be aware the map may still have some connection errors, I was thinking I had verified all but someone has found one missing neighbor yesterday).

Give me news of your game (especially how do the garrisons with big monsters against player armies, I want to adjust some before I start mine, so no player get too easy or terribly hard encounters between his start position and a gateway).

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

Count me in!

I'll post later with my nation choice.

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

We're using the 3.01 version, so that is already fixed. I'll encourage people to write something about the map when they're finished with the game, be it good or bad feedback.

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

Count me in too. I will have to see what nation I'd like to pick after I've tried the map a bit.

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

That map looks awesome, so I may give a try, but it depends on my other MP games [I am losing all of them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif so I should have free time]

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

I may give it a try with Eriu. If that doesn't click for me, I might try Abyssia instead.

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

I'm in with R'lyeh (big Lovecraft fan).

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

Okay, I'd like to try Ermor this time.

One thing occurs to me: If the VPs are cumulative, I would recommend a higher number--at least 5. I could see it being difficult for opponents to respond quickly enough if someone takes the central province--particularly for nations like Ulm or water. And even if they do, most likely that first person has held the province for 1 or 2 turns--which means all he has to do is get it back again and keep it briefly. 5 (or more) VPs allows for more strategic responses imo. I'll play regardless, though. ; )

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

Cumulative vps only accrue during one summer month.
So someone will have to hold it for 3 years (Or in the right month of 3 separate years.)

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

...Oh. Never mind, nothing to see here.

*cough* ; )

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

Yes, and as the province is well defended and far from capitols, it probably won't be taken before the second or third summer. So I think victory won't happen before turn 60 or so even if only one player scores VPs (and the game may be very long if several players succeed to have the province one summer or two).

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

Isn't it that you to keep it in 3 turns in a row and then it resets?

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

It's one VP for the player controlling the province the first month of each summer (month 6 of the year iirc).

I don't know if 3 cumulative victory points is the best choice, I'm hesitating with 2.

2CVP
pro : even if many players manage to control the isle one summer, the game won't be too long
con : if one player takes a good start, takes the isle for the second summer and keeps it two years, the game may end as soon as turn 42

3CVP
pro : good minimum and probable duration (60 turns if a player dominates, in the 80-100 if 2 or 3 others succeed to score some VPs)
con : if all player manage to score vps the game may never end (12 players x 2 vps x 12 months) + 12 for the last vp = ... 492 turns if everyone succeed to control the isle 2 summers before someone scores the third vp)

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

Heh. Well, speaking for myself Twan? If that rather extreme 'con' case of 3CVPs somehow happened...that strikes me as one *heckuva* fun-looking game! ; )

I wouldn't worry. I'd rather have a chance at a fun, close game that ends up lasting longer cuz everyone's playing well, than a game that's over quickly just cuz some player got lucky or something.

My vote, assuming it matters, is for 3CVP.

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

Count me in. I'll take Jotunheim.

-Ubercat

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

+1 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

And I will try C'tis.

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

What is the deadline for confirmation?

Re: King of the Isle (full if all confirm)
 

I wouldn't worry about castles as there are all kinds of ways to reduce their advantage. Large garrisons are vulnerable to Beckoning, Flames from the Sky, Leprosy, Lure of the Deep, and Melancholia. Essential commanders (e.g, nature mages, engineers, etc) are vulnerable to assassination spells like Earth Attack and Seeking Arrow (ask Janlm about that last spell), as well as assassination in general. All this is not to mention units and items that ease besieging a castle.

Re: King of the Isle (full if all confirm)
 

The problem I see with a (good) castle on the isle is more if the province is very contested (i.e 4 or 5 players owning neighbouring provinces and fighting to be the one taking the isle). In this situation, a siege can be very hard to end, as the competition between other players can help a lot the sieged one (ie : player A siege B, player C, D E try to take the province, C wins but after the 2 or 3 battles he had to fight the surviving army is too small to breach the walls, next turn same situation, etc...). An army with nature mages and good units may resist very well in this kind of situation, especially as spells cast on the province by all players but one will affect the sieging army first (iirc only the player who is sieging can affect defenders with spells, all spells cast by third parties rather affect the bessieger - but I may be wrong).

Of course diplomacy may solve the problem, but as there is only one VP I think it would be hard for all the wanabe bessiegers to find a agreement.

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

Hi http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Caelum for me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

Finally it seems spells cast on a bessieged castle by third parties can affect the two sides (it's I think a system like for targetting with "none" priority, the chance to affect an army is probably based on its number of units compared to the other one).

About a "no castle" rule I'm after all neutral : we may consider that if someone succeed to keep the isle a sufficient number of turns to make one he desserves to have it (also as the province is mountain/forest/farm and I think only the worst castle can be built by each nation, most are only able to make an hill fort or forest rempart there). The isle owner will probably be ganged by all who can, so allowing him to make a castle isn't a too big advantage finally.

Another point I think we should discuss : do I let Pharaex as he is, nerf it a little or a lot ? (if I let Pharaex like he is currently, d6/e6/s6 with gems the encounter may be really hard for the firsts to try, and it may end in a waiting game if nobody dare to be this one).

When his generals just do their jobs (very good thugs causing lots of casualties, but killable by any large army or army with mages) it's near to be impossible to kill the sphynx without medium+ level magic, and being very lucky with an ethearal crossbow shot or similar spell (as he has good mr, base prot 36, casts luck+be usually, and eventually earth or astral mr spell), and once players have the required levels/gear, Pharaex will be able to cast a lot of destructive astral combo spells like neither darts, gift from heaven, etc. Also, even if "independants are routed" in round 20, with all the generals and crushers destroyed, they may win if Pharaex is not killed (I had a very unlucky battle in a test game in which he survived alone 20+ rounds after the message and my army was finally routed...).

So I may... suppress his gems to exhaust him faster, and/or reduce his levels or not (but if I reduce astral without suppressing it he would be too vulnerable to magic duels) or both (I think E6/D6 but no astral would make him more killable by normal armies ; or I may let him S6 but reduce or suppress earth - death is more needed as the undeads he summons are the only chaff of the encounter). "Not" may be fun too (more a challenge to win the isle) but if he is lucky in the fight may make it untakable for a very long time (would be fun anyway if he remains the only "king of the isle" up to turn 60+ -an heckuva of scenarized maps with sphynxs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif like indyependant would say).

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

I continue my tests and will release the version of the map we are going to use this week end, then ask for pretenders. So it would be cool to know if we are full or search some other players around this date, and have all nation choices in the beginning of next week.

Ideally the game should start the 1/12 (so we can do several of the fast first turns in the week-end).

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

I just thought I'd mention I've been taking the time until this game starts to experiment with builds for MA Ermor on the Geometry map. I haven't gotten very far in any games yet--at most, 10-20 turns, just to see how the early game plays out--but I have to say, I'm really liking this map. It appeals to my sense of symmetry. : )

A couple suggestions, though: I've become a fan of graphs off. Can we play this game without graphs? And this is probably unnecessary, but I assume we will be playing with renaming on...

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

Twan:

I am getting killed in 3 of 3 MP games I am in, so I am sure I will have time for that game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif I still don't know what nation...

One thing I would maybe add on that map are some AI garrisons with SCs that you'd need to bypass before meeting with other players.

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

I think Pharaex is ok like he is now. I only tested once, but he got butchered all right. Even against the ai, though, it's going to be a bit tough to defend the isle as you can get it early but at a cost. Nice map and concept.
I'll definitely play Eriu, looks like I can manage to at least survive for a few turns with them.

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

I may add the fronteers between players logical spheres of influence to the "random bonus garrisons program" (but more big monsters it's perhaps too much, this map is already very anti-rush as there are 6 or + provinces between two capitols, and invading another player's realm it's losing time far from the gateways and the isle).

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

I don't see needing larger monsters in between as necessary either, really. --Besides, that would interfere with my F9/W9/S9/D9 Ermorian vestal quadruple-bless-rush strategy!!!1!eleven

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

I wonder if F9/W9/S9/D9 is even possible. It would be awesome.

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

Imprisoned oracle with full negative scales and no extra dominion is short 24 points to get his 4th 9, so I guess that's a no. (Crone is about 50 points short)

A CBM crone gets there though, and even has enough points left over to buy a second candle...

(Yeah, I had to check...)

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

Marignon can quad-bless with Baphomet, I don't know if another pretender allows the same.

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

I need to try something new, so I will go with Man.

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

Just noticed it's doable with R'lyehs void lurker. R'lyeh isn't exactly very high on powerful sacreds though...

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

It'd make for some really scary void units (all sacreds) though. Plus, you can make your own sacreds by casting Imprint Souls on all your chaff. I'd replace D9 with E9 or N9 since your units could use the extra defense. Combining N9 with Gift of Health and Gift of Nature's Bounty would make for a seriously scary nation.

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

A bless strategy is not a good idea with R'lyeh.... Seriously that void produces like 1 sacred every 3-4 turns and imprint soul is just so very expensive for what it does. To waste the pretender points on a quad-bless with Rlyeh is probably the worst build I have ever heard of in this game.

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

About graphs, personally I prefer with as I think they give a general idea of the situation but don't give too much information (ie : who has a big army but not who has a good one, etc...) but if many players want to play without I may change my mind.

For renaming, I think everybody will agree for allowed (but if possible I'd like if people avoid to name all their mages "s3d2" etc, I find it makes the game less immersive when the hall of fame looks like a list of bots - a well chosen name may give the same info if needed, ie "Astralslayer", or if you are not inspired at least a name + the info "LuciusS3D2").

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

The version 0.5 of the map has been posted. I think I will use this one (except if there is a big bug somewhere that I missed, I don't plan to continue to modify this map before our game).

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

Twan:

I think that you can get way too much info about someone's tactics, strength etc from graphs.

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

I'm already playing a MP game with an older version (0.3) of the map, will there be any problems? Both versions have the same name...


oh, and I like graphs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

I think there will be no problem with the .map file, only used by the host. But as they also have the same name you'll have to chose one of the two versions of the tga (2 connections have changed).

(in v0.3 there were 2 or 3 connections errors anyway)

For the graphs we are 2 "for" and 2 "against"... I'll let graphs "on" except if more players are against.

Also do everybody agree for last version of Worthy Heroes ?

---

I'm still waiting to know if PDF and davidd want to play (I've asked on Cyberstratege forums...). Perhaps we'll have to find 2 more players for next week.

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

Will there be a problem with my other game if I copy the new tga in my map folder?

Or will it be possible to play the turns of this game on my other PC (that can't connect to the internet) with the new map, and then only copy the save files to this PC and connect to the server?

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

I vote for graphs ON.

-Ubercat

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

The two tga have the same provinces, simply on the oldest there was an impassable fronteer I've since removed (between 94 and 83 iirc), and no anchors showing the connection between 19 and 5 I've added in version 0.5.

So you can play the other game with the new tga, you will just have these two false connections displayed on the map (as well as some special sites probably not there in v0.3).

You may also create another dominion map folder for one of the tga (ie : the normal "map" inside the "dominion 3" folder, and one outside with the other version, and you exchange the places of the 2 folders to use the one you want)

Also note that this game will be played by e-mail.

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

I'd rather play with graphs off. Don't know about worthy heroes.

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

I have no opinion about graphs and I am OK for WH mod

Re: King of the Isle (recruiting - won\'t start fas
 

I'm neutral about graphs, and would like the WH mod. I'd like to go all the way with the Conceptual Balance mod but that may be a bit much this time around.