Some questions regarding communions
 

1) If a communion SLAVE casts a self-buff, does this buff apply to the whole communion? Including communion master(s)? What happens if a communion self-buffer dies? Do the buffs go with him too?

2) Carrying on with the last question, I assume all single target spells count, but what about a magepriest communion master blessing himself?

3) Does the ai usually script communion master/slave spells automatically, and would it ignore a script if the opponent is considered 'weak'? I was thinking if a communion master dies... would one of the slaves recast communion master to make use of the communion?

4) Any other general tips on using communions would be welcome! Is it only worth it if you want to cast major spells in a big battle, or do ppl start using it as soon as its researched so that their mages can go on forever?

Thanks!

Re: Some questions regarding communions
 

No idea on the three first, but :
4/ use and abuse if you've got cheap communion slaves (thinking of MA Pythium and MA Ermor). I never use one to cast lowish spells, so I start to field communion when I've got level 3/4 spells. It also depends on your mages picks : when playing Pythium, it is almost useless to field non-communioned mages, because their picks are spread among too many magic paths.
I forgot Marverni can also make usefull communion, but if I remember well, the stargazer is a bit costy (non sacred + high gold cost)

Re: Some questions regarding communions
 

1) Slave self-buffs do not affect the communion.
Buffs remain if the caster retreats, I assume they remain if he dies.

2) Bless is not single target, so does not affect slaves. On the other hand, with 4 slaves even a H1 magepriest can divine bless.

3) I wouldn't count on the ai casting communion master/slave in any useful fashion.

Re: Some questions regarding communions
 

Thanks for the quick replies...

I guess then it tends to make sense to have your communion master at the top of the casting lineup so that the slaves get buffed b4 they cast their spells. Or do you just leave the slaves alone since casting spells as slaves will just kill them due to fatigue?

Re: Some questions regarding communions
 

mmm
What if comm master casts summon earth power?
should all slaves gain reinvigoration?

Re: Some questions regarding communions
 

Can a mage be both a communion master and slave?

Re: Some questions regarding communions
 

If the communion master casts first, slaves will not cast anything.
Specifically, if a slave has been drawn on in a turn for a master to cast a spell, he will not act. If he reaches his turn to act without being used, he will act.

A master's Summon earthpower reinvigorates the slaves. They also get the path boost, if they have any earth magic to start with.

Re: Some questions regarding communions
 

MA Ermor is my favourite for communion. Suddenly all your little thaumaturgs are casting darkness, spamming skeletons and causing havoc with terror, drain life, shadow blast and boosted nether darts all by themselves.

Your 3 questions have been covered. As for number 4? My advice would be: think big. For example, if you are playing MA Ermor try to get 8-16 slaves for a 3-4 level increase in death magic(up to 4-5), astral magic(same) and holy level(up to 5-6). With darkness and power of the unholy sepulchre your reanimated undead are not only meatshields - they are faster and more skilled than the enemy! Once that is up, a bunch of level 4-5 masters spamming nether darts and terror(or drain life on high MR unroutables/wither bones on enemy undead) can demolish anything your now 'elite' undead can't handle.

Re: Some questions regarding communions
 

Thanks to the answers, i've thought of even more questions!

a) Can non-astral nations get access to communions by trading for crystal/slave matices?

b) Also, a slave which has been drawn on will not act - What if you set him to attack closest or script him for actions that won't cause fatigue? Some fuzzy ideas of making SCs and thugs communion slaves are floating around in my head - is this a feasible idea?

Re: Some questions regarding communions
 

a) Yes.

b) If he's drawn on, he won't act.
You can be terribly clever, send eight thugs into battle with slave matrices, have them (hold)(hold)(hold)(hold)Attack Closest and have another mage (cast)(cast)(cast)(cast)(retreat).

The master will buff them four times and then they'll be free to act. This is almost-always more trouble than it is worth, but you can use it to get a whole army of thugs with crazy stuff like Soul Vortex.

Re: Some questions regarding communions
 

1) Yes, though it's probably not cost efficient.
Don't forget Blood sabbath works the same way as communion and is compatible with it.

2) If the slave goes first he will act every turn, if he goes after any master he will not. What he's scripted for doesn't affect this. If the master does not cast, the slaves can act.
Using thugs as communion slaves does work. If the master is also a thug, having him buff the slaves then attack will allow them to attack also. Simply making sure the slaves go first will also work. If the master is more fragile, you can have him cast the self buffs and then retreat.
Bear in mind the slaves, especially if they don't have the right paths, are likely to start fighting with a lot of fatigue.

I used this with Vampire Counts. Using one of them as a master for Soul Vortex and a fortune teller for luck and other astral buffs.

Re: Some questions regarding communions
 

Other uses for communions, as MA Ermor:

Think of 3 thaumathurgs...10 slaves, 1 master. Master casts power of the spheres on turn 2. By turn 3 you cast 10 shadow blasts costing only 10D and 1S gems. That's quite some damage for the cost.
I found that having 1 master casting power of the spears on turn 2 is a must...great permanent boost for all the slaves that they keep even if you break the communion.

Another use... master one grand thaumaturgh with an air random. Have him cast power of the spheres + 8 slaves. He gets to A5 = Fog warriors, Storm, etc... basically with ermor is really easy to even get to Air and Water level 5 battlefield spells... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Some questions regarding communions
 

Similarly with Arco's Mystics. All those 1 path elemental randoms become impressive once you've communioned, cast PofS and Summon Earthpower (and Phoenix Power). All the slave can now shower Falling Fires, Magma Eruption, while the master can do battlefield buffs.

Re: Some questions regarding communions
 

Extra bonus, if you can manage to turn up a single b1 mage, sabbath master, hold, hold, hold, reinvigorate will wipe out all the fatigue from those slaves around round 6 (you'll marginally pass out from the sabbath master). This can be a very good way to finish off buffing the slaves for melee after you just made them cast a bunch of spells they don't have the paths for. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Some questions regarding communions
 

Is there a way of telling what order your mages will cast in during the fight?

Re: Some questions regarding communions
 

I keep expecting to be contradicted on this, but I believe that they always act in order - as in, in the order they are displayed on the orders screen. At least, this was once true.

Re: Some questions regarding communions
 

I can confirm that they act in the order that they appear in the orders screen. That is the only thing that matters and not their grid placement in the battlefield, as i once red in the forums.
I only have problems with casting order when i move mages from different provinces all into the same. I couldnt find a pattern to know which province's mages cast first once they are all together.

Re: Some questions regarding communions
 

If you give them their move orders, then use 'y' to get to the orders screen in the target province, they'll be in order there.

Re: Some questions regarding communions
 

Aha. So you can guarantee that the master casts after all the slaves if needs be...

It's not entirely clear to me from the description how the division of fatigue works. If a master casts a spell that would net him 50 fatigue and has 10 slaves, do they get 5 fatigue each?