OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

My computer is a couple years old now, maybe 2.5 years old, and it's started slowing down from when it was new; an inevitable process if I'm not mistaken.

What I'm searching for is a way in which to boost performance, short of a drive reformat. I have my hard drive partitioned into 4 separate drives, C: is the Windows (XP) partition (40GB), with only it and the few poorly designed programs that won't allow themselves to be placed anywhere other than C:. D: is the games drive (50GB), nearly full. E: is the miscellaneous programs drive (50GB), nowhere near full. F: is the multimedia drive (50GB), pictures, music, videos, moderately full. Not sure if all that info's needed, but it can't hurt http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

I've defragmented all the drives with little effect, and am hoping for some additional suggestions to boost performance. Any suggestions would be most welcome http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Thanks!

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

The only comparable option to a Windows reinstall (which doesn't itself require a reformat) is to try to remove obsolete files and registry entries manually - and deleting the wrong ones could require a reinstall anyway. I'd suggest biting the bullet, reinstalling Windows - and using software like Total Uninstall to keep track of (and clear out) the junk programs leave behind in future.

You could try using a registry cleaner, but these will only pick up a tiny portion of the junk present. Clearing out programs that run on startup that you don't need (and disabling unnecessary Windows services) would likely be of greater benefit, if you haven't already done this.

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

Just about every desktop computer in the past several years has had the bottleneck at I/O instead of processing power. If you want a speedup, the way to get it is to reduce latency with I/O. From what you've said, I can think of two ways to do this:

1) Add more memory. Preferably the max your system allows. It takes microseconds to access data in memory, while it takes milliseconds to access data from disc. Maximizing memory allows you to cache more data in memory, which means you'll need to hit the slower discs less.

2) Split your discs. If you have four partitions on one disc, you still have the latency of one disc. And if you have the disc trying to access game data on disc while Windows is trying to access virtual memory, you got the read heads seeking all over the place on disc. Partitions are great for managing data and having a more modular approach to backup, but it doesn't do you any performance favors. Imaging your C: drive onto a new drive (10krpm helps) should help out a lot.

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

I've heard that some of the larger 7200 rpm drives are starting to approach the read rates of the 10k raptor type drives (at much more palatable $/GB ratios to boot). Notably, the latest 750 GB western digitals.

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

Wouldn't it make more sense to move the swap rather than C: ?I guess it depends how much memory he has and how often the swap is used. Does Windows allow you to put your swap drive onto a USB flash drive? They tend to be pretty quick if you have a spare USB2 slot, and you can get a gig or two for pocket change these days. Then you could have Windows on one hard drive, games, programs and data on another and swap on USB, for super-fast performance=-)

But do max out your memory first, as Will suggests.

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

Currently I have 2GB RAM (4x512), and had always assumed that'd be sufficient for a Win XP system http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif Is it?

I have the drive partitioned mostly for convenience and organizational purposes; it's a hell of a lot easier to access a file when you know at least which partition it's in! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Would removing a bunch of unused programs serve to speed it up, at least a bit? For example, games I no longer play, etc.

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

Give it a good vacuuming. All that dust slows down the gears.

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

dogscoff said:
Does Windows allow you to put your swap drive onto a USB flash drive? They tend to be pretty quick if you have a spare USB2 slot, and you can get a gig or two for pocket change these days. Then you could have Windows on one hard drive, games, programs and data on another and swap on USB, for super-fast performance=-)

Flash memory has slower data transfer rates when writing than hard disks (see this Ars Technica benchmark page) though reading is faster - the biggest advantage it offers is lower seek times.

A bigger downside of flash memory is the limit on the number of times it can be written to (typically in the tens or hundreds of thousands per block). Having data that is written to very frequently (which a swap file will be) may shorten a flash stick's lifespan to mere months.

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

Do the Control-Alt-Delete and see how many processes you are currently running. This will give you a good idea of how much of your resources are being devoured by 'background' programs. Virus programs as Norton or McAfee will totally suck up your resource space.
If you have more then 40 processes running (ideally you want between 32 to 40) you will need a program (like Spybot S&D or there are others) to turn off some of those processes, reclaiming memory for you to run the programs you want.

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

Xrati said:
(ideally you want between 32 to 40)

Where did this range come from?

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

IIRC, it isn't normally possible to move the pagefile (swap) from C:. I'm sure there's some hack to get it stored elsewhere, but it's likely one of those annoying things that resets itself all the time, so more trouble than it's worth. As for using a thumbdrive as swap space, like AstralWanderer said, write times are slower. Although the overwriting of data isn't really that big of a deal unless you are doing very memory intensive tasks that start and stop new address spaces a lot (most people don't). It's easier for a virtual memory manager to keep a page in swap even after it's read back into main memory, since if the page is not dirty and is picked to go back into swap, the manager doesn't need to write it again, which increases performance a bit.

And Xrati has a good point as well. Norton et. al. tends to slow things down a lot, since they actively scan files in the background. Not computationally intensive, but very I/O intensive, and that will slow things down a lot. There's better products out there.

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

I had no trouble at all moving swap to a different partition when my C was running out of space in the past. Maybe windows decided not to move it back to C due to lack of space, maybe it works as advertised. Hard to say. Still, I've always found claims of actual performance gain from shuffling swaps around to be rather dubious...

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

Well, 2 gigs is plenty for XP, I really don't think your slowdown is due to insufficient ram (unless you have a bad mem stick in there, I suppose). I think it's just Windows rot.

If that's the case, you can defrag and clear the registry and uninstall unwated crap to get some of your performance back but you really need to wipe the hard drive and re-install the OS (or re-install some OS, anyway). It's the only way to be sure.

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

Nuke it from orbit!

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

That's what I feared http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif Seems odd that a computer (or, more specifically, an operating system) would kinda 'decay' over time. I mean, it's just bits stored on a magnetic storage device, it shouldn't be *able* to decay! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

Trust me, it happens. As you use the OS more it accumulates more and more "rubbish".

I'm building a new computer and while I'm waiting for the RAM to come in, I've preinstalled XP onto a new hard drive with this computer. Now, the copy of XP on one of the drives on here that I boot from has been installed for a year and a half now and pretty much runs poorly. The fresh XP install on the new hard drive runs like a dream, and ran Oblivion really sweet on this computer, which normally would be a bit jumpy.

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

Believe it or not, passing cosmic rays can flip individual bits on magnetic media.

Another problem on really old media is the "glue" holding the magnetic particles to the surface of the media deteriorating. The stuff you have to occaisionally clean off tape heads is particles that have scraped off the tape.

Most of the debris my registry cleaner finds is references to files that have been deleted.

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

Well, even if we disregard fragmentation, the crap cluttering up the registry, all the pointless bloat that wants to install itself and autostart, the malware and everything else, and not wanting to sound like a conspiracy theorist, bear in mind that if your OS worked flawlessly forever, you'd never want to buy the next one...

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

Fyron, that is an average I've found from personel experiences working for many companies over the years. The more processes, the slower the computer.

When you install Win XP, right after the final reboot but before you install any programs, if you do a ctrl-alt-del you will have about 16 processes running. After that it just goes up as you add on programs. Quick launch programs get put into memory and become active processes that slow down your performance. You can create shortcuts to these rather then have them in memory waiting to be used. Also defragging once a month will help disk efficiency. A good registry cleaner used monthly will also keep small bits of lost or deleted files from building up in your registry. Also, for those who keep the power on all the time, a reboot will flush memory and release some of the registry entries for cleaning up. Good maintenance will keep your computer in good running condition.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

Defragmentation is 99% useless. Disk read rates are so high these days that any effect of fragmentation in modern file systems is nullified. There are occasional uses for degramentation, such as a bizarre case of 90% fragmented drives, but for the most part, its a relic of a bygone age. Its especially useless to have a policy of defragmenting before installing new games or large programs...

Xrati:
Look at the total CPU Time for such processes; anything that has 0:00:05 CPU Time after 2 weeks of running (most such services) is not going to be bogging anything down, especially when its total memory usage is in the 100s of KBs. If you see unnecessary services that have significant amounts of CPU Time and/or Mem Usage, removing them can help (a little bit). I just think your time is better served cleaning the registry and such, than stopping services that use almost 0 resources in the big picture.

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

Quality vs Quantity.

Look for the big hogs, and go from there http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

I don't know if this has been mentioned or not, but if your PC is 2.5 years old perhaps you might need too blow out the dust from the inside of the case if you haven't already. That might help it to run cooler and thus improve speed slightly.

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

Yep, I regularly clean out the dust, as where I live we get a ton of it. About every 2-3 months, I crack her open and take out wads of the stuff http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

That reminds me, I should clean mine today.

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

You might want to invest in some filter screens for your case then. Sure you just move to having to clean the filter periodically, but thats better than dust actually inside the system. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

It's the memory usage Fyron, not the CPU usage. If you have a program that you don't use tying up memory, then that will slow down the rest of the programs trying to use extra memory. A good case in point would be your explorer.exe program. When you boot up it runs at about 15 to 17k memory. As you continue on the file will build up to 30k. You can "end process" and then start it again with no problems, as long as you have nothing running on your computer. Once you do that it will drop down in size and start to build up again.

As far as defragging goes, I've read posts where people just lose files/programs on disks as over time, XP will write over files and programs. That's why they (HDD OEM's) suggest that you defrag every once in a while to allow the OS to rewrite/update the FAT. It's not about speed or optimization. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

I just rebuilt my neighbors computer. He didn't have 'dust bunnies' he had 'dust elephants" in the unit. It is a great idea to use filters. Even just a thin piece of foam that will let air flow thru. My computer has an intake and exhaust fan on it. The intake face has to be wiped down about once a week or it just looks like s#%t, with all the dust clinging to the cover.

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

Even if you lose 20-30 MBs of RAM to background services, that won't really affect performance noticeably outside of the most memory-constrained hardware builds. How many games do you run that grind to a halt just because you only have 600 MB free RAM to let them use instead of 630 MB? Having bits of memory in-use as opposed to empty does not slow down access to other bits of memory, unless you manage to fill up the physical RAM entirely and cause hdd thrashing..

Now certainly, ditching huge memory hogs like NAV can net performance gains. Closing off larger programs like Skype and Instant Messengers, web browsers, etc., before you run a game can free up a lot of memory. I just don't see much potential in axing ~1MB background apps, esp. when they are hardly ever run by the task scheduler and get paged to disk.

"As far as defragging goes, I've read posts where people just lose files/programs on disks as over time, XP will write over files and programs."

It's fairly safe to assume such posters had a gross misunderstanding about how their system worked. Its far more likely hdd clusters randomly became corrupted at a physical level than some nebulous claims of XP overwriting existing file segments due to marginal fragmentation..

"That's why they (HDD OEM's) suggest that you defrag every once in a while to allow the OS to rewrite/update the FAT."

They just do that to shift blame away from themselves for less than perfect hdd manufacturing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

It can't hurt to defragment once a year or so, but don't think its some sort of panacea for your system's woes.

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

Well, then with this wealth of information, Renegade has enough suggestionsz to get some more juice out of that ole computer of his. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif AND we've debunked some myths!!!

It's still a personnel preference as to what 'floats your boat' on computer upkeep.

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

Indeed, the suggestions here have been quite useful, for which I thank you all. There is one more thing I'd like to ask though...I currently use Norton (I know, I know, it's the spawn of the devil), and would like to remove it and replace it with something less bloaty. However, I seem to recall hearing that it has an, umm...aversion to being removed. What would be the best and most thorough way of removing it? Also, if I'm going to remove it I'd like to have a replacement in place before I'm left anti-virus free http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif As such, any suggestions on a quality, non-bloaty, (preferably free) alternative?

Again, thanks!

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

That depends on whether you want a free AV, or a paid AV. AVG is a good free option, but like all free versions, its detection rates are not quite as good as commercial AV engines. This site has results of periodic AV engine tests (on the best commercial versions of each AV engine IIRC), very useful:

http://www.av-comparatives.org/

Avira and NOD32 tend to come out on top, especially in the proactive tests (which test detection of viruses with old definition libraries, testing the ability to identify new viruses).

As for removing Norton AV, Symantec bowed to pressure and released a complete uninstaller tool:

http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...05033108162039

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

I'm using Avast; it seems to work fine so long as you don't mind it listing every password-protected archive on your computer at the end of its scan.

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

That, at least tells you that it's working! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Good luck with the Norton uninstall. Mine did not go so well. By the time it was done, none of the spyware or spybot programs would work right, even after a uninstall/re-install. Since the system was pretty much unstable at that point, I just reformatted the HD and installed XP from scratch.

Remember to backup anything that you consider VERY IMPORTANT, before you try to remove Norton.

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

Huh?? You actually WANT spyware and spybot programs to work on your system?? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

I assume he just forgot to type "anti" in there..

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

People is like, 90% percent to communicating each other with than words other things.

Granted, our understanding words is pretty good too, but your understanding of that sentence probably came from as much interpretation of intention as interpretation of words.

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

Oh! Yes I did mean programs such as Spybot S&D and Adware. Sorry for leading you on that I was breeding viruses here! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

Glue some wheels on the bottom and go out to your nearest local hill. Darn pc goes fast now!

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

Yeah, use some of that 'Go down fast' stuff.

Re: OT: Speeding up a slow computer
 

With all the different types of glue available, which ones do you feel would be appropriate? Should I just use pc glue II as it’s ability to retain crap has a remarkable similarity to Win XP!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif
Would the 'go down fast stuff' be affected by the size of the hill OR would a 'hill of beans' do?