Stealth vs Starvation?
 

Does stealth somehow mitigate the effects of lack of supplies?

OK, here's my situation, albeit with some small attempt to maintain my in-game anonymity:

I'm being raided by a large force of 'super-stealth' units (around 100 or so, many of which are mounted). They are operating in provinces that are either already 'waste land', or where I have previously pillaged things down to what I thought were 'inhospitable' levels (only a few hundred pop. left, with supply levels around, say, 50 or so).

This force is not led by leaders with nature magic, nor do they have supply granting magic items. Yet they have been in my territory for at least two turns (and possibly longer, depending on the nature of their approach - being stealthed, I have no real idea of how they got into my lands), and after checking the last battle replay, I see that only a portion of their forces are just now being hit with the 'starvation' tag (meaning, as I click about randomly on their units, some seem to be starving, and others not). None seem to be afflicted with disease (which is of course what I'd been hoping for with my campaign of preemptive pillaging).

Is this possible? I'd always thought that either the entire army was starving or not - not just some units. Having done a commander count, I'm positive this force has not been reinforced with new, supplied, units. Besides, I found starving and non-starving units mixed together in the same 'squad', meaning, only some units in the same army have been afflicted by hunger, while others seem to be perfectly fine and well-fed, much less rendered abject by diseases and privation, like I'd expected!

So, is there something I'm missing here, either in terms of game mechanics (am I misunderstanding the supply rules?) or game play (is my foe somehow supplying some of his forces in a way I don't understand, or slipping in fresh, supplied forces to the same army, again in a way I don't understand?)?

Or do stealth forces truly have some sort of bonus when it comes to operating in low supply environments?

Any timely info on this topic would be very, very appreciated! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Stealth vs Starvation?
 

Generally, only some units will be starving. IIRC, if not all units in the province can be fed, the rest will starve. Which ones are randomly chosen.

It's possible, and fairly likely, that he has scouts with supply items along with the force. They'll stay hidden instead of attacking, so you won't see them in the battles, nor will he risk losing the supply items.

Re: Stealth vs Starvation?
 

Thanks, thejeff.

Your first comment is very instructive. So are you saying that, for example, if the the supply level is 50, and the particular army is wanting to consume 100 supply 'points', that half the army, size wise (and chosen randomly) will suffer from lack of supplies?

Regarding the second point, it is indeed possible my opponent has a scout with supply items, but unlikely, considering his nation of origin.

I just think this notion of 'partial supply' is interesting. Is that in fact how the game operates? That only those units in excess of the supply level of a given province suffer (again, determined randomly)?

Re: Stealth vs Starvation?
 

Probably more likely than you think. With a pretender with just a couple of points of nature magic--or the found tribal shamans, where nature abounds--supply items would be easy to forge for the force you describe.

Even assuming he needed to empower someone, if his national mages don't have nature, there is not much else to spend any nature gems on. So if he stumbled across a level 0 nature producing site early on, he might have had lots of nauture gems to burn by the time he attacked.

Now, if it's only turn 5, this doesn't explain things.

Also, your opponent could have traded for supply items.

Re: Stealth vs Starvation?
 

TwoBits, I understand it the same way thejeff does. I may be mistaken, but units that are starving this turn may recieve provisions next turn, eliminating their starvation status. And the ones that recieved C Rations this turn may get skipped next turn, meaning that neither of those units will get diseased as they haven't been starving for two consecutive turns. Any one care to comment if I am right???

Re: Stealth vs Starvation?
 

Sneaking units can never starve in enemy territory. The starvation they have encountered is a result of them attacking (the turn after they attack the starvation check occurs as they are in what is now their province). So, as long as they sneak into one of your provinces every other turn, they will never get diseased.

EDIT: It is difficult to tell for sure, but in general the starvation mechanics do often seem to operate as jimkehn describes.

Re: Stealth vs Starvation?
 

Sneaking units can't starve? That sounds like a bug to me. I can't see any thematic reason for it.

Re: Stealth vs Starvation?
 

Because then they wouldn't be stealthy.

Feeding yourself without being noticed must be part of the stealthy skillset. Nuts, berries, insects, etc. Think lunatic survivalists.

Re: Stealth vs Starvation?
 

Dang, if quantum_mechanic is right, I'll have to rethink my whole "scorched earth" strategy, at least versus the sneakers...

Re: Stealth vs Starvation?
 

It still seems like a bug. Checking their hunger against the base supplies of the province wouldn't give them away but would stop large armies passing through the Carrion Woods, where even the plants are undead.

Re: Stealth vs Starvation?
 

Actually, I think it *SHOULD* give them away! If you truly want to sneak an army through you should have to bring food as the locals would note the missing food.

Re: Stealth vs Starvation?
 

However, that'd also mean that if your enemy was using stealth armies against you, the best way to fight them would be to check all of your provinces every turn, and see how much supplies are used. EVERY TURN!

Doing something very boring and very unfun shouldn't give benefits that can't be gotten other ways.

Re: Stealth vs Starvation?
 

IMO, there should be some kind of check against a province's supply level, just to represent a stealth army's ability to live off the land or not.

A large, sneaky force might be able to forage and steal enough food in bountiful farmland, but it's hard to imagine them getting by on just roots and berries in a barren wasteland...

Re: Stealth vs Starvation?
 

No. I wouldn't alter the numbers on the screen, I would just have a message if the province was in starvation due to them. "Inexplicably, the units in <x> can't find enough food."

How about an order for stealth units: Eat. Their supply consumption increases say 3x or 5x, although this will not cause starvation amongst *THEIR* units.

Re: Stealth vs Starvation?
 

One possible solution would be to cause starvation in sneaking units in enemy territory, but not update the display of available supplies when the owner of the province looks at it. And since the stealth units are sneaking, they get last dibs on the twigs and berries, so standing armies of the owner won't starve (normally) either.

Re: Stealth vs Starvation?
 

Hmmm... I think so far this thread isn't understanding how I understand the supply mechanic. First off, its population based. If it weren't, it be reasonable to think "twig and berry" supply would be HIGHER in lower population provinces. Instead, supply is not just salvaging, but things like villages baking bread, preparing horse feed, etc. Basically, the products of industry.

So where do stealth armies fit into this equation. Not a clue. I'm pretty sure I've seen some of my stealth armies suffer stravation before, but its been a long time.

Re: Stealth vs Starvation?
 

I had a single stealth commander suffer from and die of starvation when sneaking around in enemy terrain.

Re: Stealth vs Starvation?
 

Commanders can't starve, ever. At least I don't remember ever seeing my commanders starve, or get diseased from it. He could have passed through a province with Inkpot End in it.

Re: Stealth vs Starvation?
 

Endo is right... commanders will never starve.