Balance opinions II
 

In an effort to delay actually getting to work on a new CB version, here's another poll.

Re: Balance opinions II
 

"T'ien Ch'i celestial masters should have 10 in every path"
Umm What? I assume that was a joke. I say go for it as long as i am playing Tein Chi.

Re: Balance opinions II
 

I choose those 3:-

Changes to booster items and/or indy commanders (removed next version in any case).

Recruitable reanimators nerf (Lanka and ME Ermor).

Cost increases to helhirdlings, sacred van cavalry, shadow vestals, and palankasha.

The celestial master thing puzzled me too, so I ignored it totally. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Balance opinions II
 

YOU KNOW MY VOTE!

Edit: Nooooooooo I voted the wrong one, I thought it said which changes would you like to see most >_>.

Re: Balance opinions II
 

I think the magic scale is plenty powerful enough in Dom3, I can't see why you'd want to set it back to Dom2 level. I always feel very powerful with Magic-3, and quite crippled with Drain-3.

Re: Balance opinions II
 

Two reasons: The scale settings that do almost nothing border on buggy, and a more powerful magic scale makes extreme blessings harder.

As for the celestial master, it was a non-serious option, though I suppose it does serve to see how many people did not read the poll carefully/were not actually familiar with CB.

Re: Balance opinions II
 

I thought you meant that the celestials should have an extra 10% of getting F/A/W/E/S/D/N/B.
Though I didn't vote for it anyway, so it doesn't really matter what I thought http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Balance opinions II
 

On a poll the wording is very important otherwise people will vote for the wrong thing. Thats why politicians argue over the wording on any referendum poll.

Re: Balance opinions II
 

I guess I can see that. But magic-3 giving +3 research sounds insane! I think that would be a major turnoff for me, since I can't imagine ever not taking it - which feels like a loss of choice.

Re: Balance opinions II
 

I agree, a +3 research bonus is a no brainer

Re: Balance opinions II
 

I understand that's what it's supposed to be. Magic 3 is a no-brainer, but you can't afford the same bless any more.

Of course, it also affects all other nations, some of which could really use the help. MA Ulm, as an example.

Re: Balance opinions II
 

Booster item costs and indy commanders shouldn't be together. I really like changes to indie commanders and spies. You really have to use your own commanders and it should be like that.

P.S. I would like to see air boosters cheaper than in vanilla.

Re: Balance opinions II
 

This is more or less true, but magic 1 or drain 2 is pretty much a no brainer base game, so I'm not sure it really harms much. The impact on Ulm is not much either, since base game other nations can take drain 2 without much trouble, the Ulm drain bonus is quite marginal.

Re: Balance opinions II
 

Magic 2 and 3 will need some sort of boost if it was kept to same rates as base game. Perhaps a % chance to get good events would be nice.

Re: Balance opinions II
 

so, how valuable is the %fatigue effect of magic/drain?
i know for some casters i find it significant, if they're using the high fatigue spells. but i only gots single player experience. mp games take so long to finish i won't know what the result is http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Balance opinions II
 

The fatigue/mr change is rather negligible, and in any case is about as likely to hinder or help you.

Re: Balance opinions II
 

High magic scales actually *do* give you more good events, or at least *better* events when your events are good, as several of the best events require magic.

But of course so does every other scale.

Personally, I think that magic-3 is *often* worth it at +2, and drain-3 is best avoided even at -2.

So we go from a situation where the magic scale only has four settings (+3,+1,-2,-3), to one where it only has 2 settings. It's just a wash, frankly, and I see no raeson to change things just for the fun of it.

Re: Balance opinions II
 

I rarely see anyone take drain 3 since drain 2 is just so much more efficient. I think everyone agreed that +1 per magic scale is more of a quickfix than anything since you essentially only had people taking m1 or d2, m3 rarely seen. There was nothing inherently bad with Magic 3 giving 3 rp's, it's much like order 3. Everyone took it cause it was good, the problemed lies in the fact that growth and sloth are not so great. Though growth is a little lame in that old age nations have to take it anyway.

Re: Balance opinions II
 

I don't think it's much of a wash, you trade the scale having ~2 options (which in the end don't have all that much impact anyway) to ~1. In exchange, you eliminate the only bizarrely 'bumpy' scale, and reduce the power of extreme blesses which brings a whole range of new strategies into viability.

Re: Balance opinions II
 

I think that the change in CB, has the magic scale equal in importance to the order scale. Without CB, order 3 is almost automatic. But with it there is at least a tradoff between the order scale and the magic scale. That is for me, anyways.

Now if we could only get the other three scales to be just as important.

Re: Balance opinions II
 

I chose boosters and indies nerf (good to know these are gone), magic scale changes (I like it as is in Dom III, it makes sense to me) and van units cost increase.
Latter simply because both helhirdlings and MA vans are both made more expensive already. At 90 gold its a good enough capitol-only sacred unit in my opinion; not as spammable anymore.

Re: Balance opinions II
 

Yeah. Sorry to go on about it, but to me the magic scale change would be very objectionable. Although of course everyone has their pet issues.

I'm really looking forward to the new version of CBM, I will definitely start a big game with it when it comes out.

Re: Balance opinions II
 

The 1pt per magic scale is how it was in Dom2, right? I don't recall magic 3 being a given then. Am I wrong about that, or what's changed now?

Re: Balance opinions II
 

Nothing, drain 1 to magic 3 is okay depending on your strategy/pretender.

I would say drain 3 is the problem, as anyone taking that, other than in a 2 player blitz has no chance of winning the game.

When the glamour nerf came in and the E/D Helheim mage was made capital only, Illwinter cracked what was making Helheim so overpowered. So they should have removed all the early nerfs increasing the cost of Helheims sacreds.

Also blesses where meant to be the great new thing with Dom 3 but any good sacred has since been nerfed ever since the game came out.

Re: Balance opinions II
 

Well, drain 3 is supposedly 120 free points for MA Ulm, which few others would dare take.
But then most would say that MA Ulm has little chance of winning MP anyway. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: Balance opinions II
 

quantum_mechani, *please* make the new CB mod !

I started playing vanilla dom3 since the last patch come out and all feeled .... strange. I miss your CB mod.

bye,
-Horst

Re: Balance opinions II
 

CB did not cover 3.10 changes? I have played with both 3.10 and CB and it worked fine.

Re: Balance opinions II
 

It shouldn't have Zeldor, unless you had a version of CB1.1 fixed for 3.10. It still isn't made for 3.10, anyway.

I like the CB magic scale much more than the basegame one. It's more logical and introduces more variety imo.

I honestly don't have any complaints about your balancing ideas qm. Just further suggestions which I will continue to give elsewhere regarding various stuff.

Re: Balance opinions II
 

Yep, 1.1. I really hope that next version won't reverse too much. I would also be really happy to see developers work on balance in patches, before adding new nations [which I love anyway].

Re: Balance opinions II
 

Don't worry, from the poll the only changes really on the table are the magic scale and reanimators. Both those I consider rather interim solutions until IW hopefully really fixed the problem.