New game starting on PBW, \"THE GREAT EXPIRIMENT\"
 

If you are interested in this, you will find it on PBW. The game name is "The Great Expiriment"

(Thanks to SJ for the seed he planted in my head to do something like this.)

Millennia ago your race first left the bounds of your home planet and began exploring the stars. Very early in your history you discovered warp points that allowed you to travel to other systems and meet new races. Because of your fear and hatred, you and your neighbors have nearly destroyed each other in centuries of conflict. Many races have become extinct. The few that remain have become highly advanced, but equally vicious and paranoid.

Then a discovery of major importance was made. The warp points that you and your enemies have been using were not natural phenomenon. This does not come as a major surprise. Your scientists had discovered hundreds of years ago the principles behind them, and had even been able to manipulate them to a small degree. However, what was a surprise was that the Ancient ones still existed, and they have returned!

The Ancient ones were not pleased with the chaos that reigned among their children. They have completed the job of destroying your empires that you have begun. Not wanting to exterminate you completely though, they have decided to be merciful and give you another chance. A small number of your race have been spared oblivion and will be used to populate a new galaxy. But you will not be alone. You will have to share this galaxy with those that you have been at war with for generations. And the Ancient ones were careful to select only the least educated members of your race. You will have the capacity to relearn your old technology, but you will not take that knowledge with you to your new homes.

Will you be able to put aside your differences and live in peace and harmony? And if, as is likely, the old hatreds and prejudices flare up again, will you prevail and survive? Or will you join the rest of your once great race in mists of history.

The Great Experiment begins...


Each race will have one "Seed ship" and NO planets to start with. It will be a low tech start. 2000 racial points.

At the beginning you will only have the one seed ship, so you will not be able to contact each other, except by email or forum, which is fine if you want to. Call it ship to ship radio if you want. Your ships will start in the same system, but there will be no colonizable planets there. I expect some of you will colonize the first planet you find, and some will go far to find a more secure, or more resource rich planet. This will be up to you. Once you have established a colony, and built some ships, you can seek each other out and make contact again, for trade, or war.

Your seed ship will have supply sufficient to reach anywhere in the quadrant. Probably a quantum reactor. You will not have the understanding to build these though. I will also try to fit it with a bunch of armor, but I would avoid damaging storms and warp points if I were you. There is a slight possibility one of you could be hit by an "event" prior to establishing a colony that could effectively knock you out of the game. If this happens, I am sorry. You will have to balance the risk of spending more time finding a choice starting planet against the risk of staying in your colony ship for a long time.

Once I have the players and the empire files, it will take me a few days to get the game set up. Also, I need you to email me with the password you used for your empire so I can run through a few turns to get the scenario set up right.

This game is unusual, so don't hesitate to ask questions if you don't understand something.

Geoschmo

[This message has been edited by geoschmo (edited 26 July 2001).]

Re: New game starting on PBW, \"THE GREAT EXPIRIMENT\"
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>A small number of your race have been spared oblivion and will be used to populate a new galaxy.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>May I suggest that you not give every empire all the starmaps?

Since this is a new galaxy, it is entirely reasonable.
Also, there will be some point to taking the "ancient race" trait. While the name of the trait does not really make sense, the maps would be somewhat useful.

Those with ancient race could head directly towards the planet they consider to be best, while the others wander.
Other races may try taking propulsion experts, follow the ancient race ship, then try to pass them when the good planet comes in view http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Just trying to say that you don't have to make the ancient race trait useless in your game.

Another interesting option is a ringworld on the far side of the map: Is a race to the ringworld worth more to you than an early start on a smaller world?

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (forum thread).
-&lt;Download V2.1&gt;- (Now with extra scenario support!)
-&lt;Download V1.7&gt;- (With default AIs patched)
-&lt;Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 and higher&gt;-
-&lt;Download SJs latest AI Patcher&gt;-
Visit My Homepage

Other Links:
-&lt;Play By Web&gt;-
-&lt;Schlock Mercenary&gt;- (great space-based webcartoon)
-&lt;8-bit Theater&gt;- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

Re: New game starting on PBW, \"THE GREAT EXPIRIMENT\"
 

I had a reason for that, it had to do with how I was going to set the game up.

But I just realized there is a way around that, so I am taking that out.

Thanks SJ.

As far as the Ringworlds, that is an option. I was not planning on doing that, but if everybody in the game wants it I can do it.

Geo

Re: New game starting on PBW, \"THE GREAT EXPIRIMENT\"
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>As far as the Ringworlds, that is an option. I was not planning on doing that, but if everybody in the game wants it I can do it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I was actually thinking of just one ringworld. Getting to it first would take luck and lots of time, and would likely make everybody else hate you. It would be quite a risk to use it.

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (forum thread).
-&lt;Download V2.1&gt;- (Now with extra scenario support!)
-&lt;Download V1.7&gt;- (With default AIs patched)
-&lt;Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 and higher&gt;-
-&lt;Download SJs latest AI Patcher&gt;-
Visit My Homepage

Other Links:
-&lt;Play By Web&gt;-
-&lt;Schlock Mercenary&gt;- (great space-based webcartoon)
-&lt;8-bit Theater&gt;- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

Re: New game starting on PBW, \"THE GREAT EXPIRIMENT\"
 

Just curious, what is to stop you from entering combat first turn, ramming with your colonizer and hoping to destroy the enemy and hoping to take minimal damage yourself (best case: your colinizer component safe, his destroyed). (got this from an old CIV strategy, run like heck till you find a village with your settlers, take the chariot you find and destroy the other empires b4 they settle, won a game REAL early that way once.)

------------------
"The Empress took your name away," said Chance.
Owen smiled coldly. "It wasn't hers to take. I'm a Deathstalker until I die. And we never forget a slight or an enemy." -Owen Deathstalker.

Re: New game starting on PBW, \"THE GREAT EXPIRIMENT\"
 

Nothing I suppose. Although I think the risk of damage to your ship is very great. And how many opponents will you be able to take out this way? One, two at the most, if you are VERY lucky. Out of maybe ten races? (depending on how much interest this gets.) Even if you survive you may damage your reactor or engines, which will severly limit your ability to find a suitable planet to colonize.

Plus, there will be a nasty suprise for anybody who tries to loiter around in the starting system too long. But I will let you wait for the game to see that. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Or maybe I'll come up with a way to prevent that outright before the game starts. I'll let you know.

Geo

Re: New game starting on PBW, \"THE GREAT EXPIRIMENT\"
 

I suppose the easiest way to deal with this is to give the "seed ship" stealth ability, and no sensors. Then noone can attack you, cause they can't see you. This will also lend an element of mystery, since you will not know where the other empires are until they plant roots somewhere. This could be very interesting, cause you could find a planet you like, drop ship, and find out someone else established in the same system on the same turn. Also would add more of the risk reward equation to how long do you stay in the seed ship?

Geoschmo

Re: New game starting on PBW, \"THE GREAT EXPIRIMENT\"
 

If the colonizers don't have shields, and are designed identically, then they will have the same hitpoints, and both should die when they ram. Not a very good strategy.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Plus, there will be a nasty suprise for anybody who tries to loiter around in the starting system too long. But I will let you wait for the game to see that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>First thing I thought was: Unstable Star.
Next thought: Either he was lucky to get that random event, and decided to pretend he's planned it all along, or he changed the rules to make one happen every turn, and reloaded the game until his starting system became unstable.
Then: Or maybe, he's got something else in mind - black hole effect? An AI attack ship? Damage-causing storms?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Or maybe I'll come up with a way to prevent that outright before the game starts. I'll let you know.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>All humans should be bright enough to start looking for a home right away. If you aren't going to move out of the start system by your second turn, you've already lost the game.

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (forum thread).
-&lt;Download V2.1&gt;- (Now with extra scenario support!)
-&lt;Download V1.7&gt;- (With default AIs patched)
-&lt;Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7&gt;-
-&lt;Download SJs latest AI Patcher&gt;-
Visit My Homepage

Other Links:
-&lt;Play By Web&gt;-
-&lt;Schlock Mercenary&gt;- (great space-based webcartoon)
-&lt;8-bit Theater&gt;- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

Re: New game starting on PBW, \"THE GREAT EXPIRIMENT\"
 

Will you have enough resources once you colonize to build up the home world? You will need to build a space port, followed by resource producers, research facilities, a resupply facility, ship yard and maybe some things I am forgetting.

The idea sounds really interesting, but you'll want to make sure that there are enough starting resources to get the new homeworld going.

Re: New game starting on PBW, \"THE GREAT EXPIRIMENT\"
 

There is a basic, minimum empire production of 100 of each resource in SE4 classic. That will be enough to finish your first mineral miner, and you can then build a farm and radiocatives extractor with those minerals.

As long as your colony ship dosen't sit around too long, soaking up money for maintenance, you will still have stored resources to start with. Even if you plant at the Last second, you will have the basic income for spaceport & extractor construction.

PS:
I would also suggest that the mod used for this game have a minimum resource income set to 500 or more (Enough for an extractor after 3 turns of waiting)

Since SpacePorts take 3 turns, and 5 or 6 thousand minerals, the natural merchants trait would be more valuable than normal!

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (forum thread).
-&lt;Download V2.1&gt;- (Now with extra scenario support!)
-&lt;Download V1.7&gt;- (With default AIs patched)
-&lt;Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7&gt;-
-&lt;Download SJs latest AI Patcher&gt;-
Visit My Homepage

Other Links:
-&lt;Play By Web&gt;-
-&lt;Schlock Mercenary&gt;- (great space-based webcartoon)
-&lt;8-bit Theater&gt;- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 26 July 2001).]

Re: New game starting on PBW, \"THE GREAT EXPIRIMENT\"
 

IIRC the empire income is 200 of each per turn. Base storage is 50K of each per turn. I will make sure it's set up so that when you land your ship somewhere you are at the 50k in each resource. That will be your "starting point". That should give you plenty to get started on your faciliites. It's going to be a slow start, no doubt about that. If that is a problem, this isn't the game for you.

I will be running the turns offline until everybody gets planted. This is so the seed ship maintenance doesn't eat into your resource storage. Once everybody has found their new homes I will be turning it over to PBW for auto turn processing. Because of this I am staying away from anything that would require modded data files after the second phase of the game begins. (There is a bug with 1.41 that causes the command line mod support that was added not to work right.)

Geoschmo

Re: New game starting on PBW, \"THE GREAT EXPIRIMENT\"
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by geoschmo:
Your colony ship will have supply sufficient to reach anywhere in the quadrant. Probably a quantum reactor. You will not have the understanding to build these though....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Clarification: we won't be able to build quantum reactors or colony ships? I think I know the answer to this question, but just want to be sure! Not being able to build colony ships would be nothing short of diabolical!

Quikngruvn (getting his empire ready as we speak)


------------------
"That which does not kill you will make you stronger." -- Nietzsche

Re: New game starting on PBW, \"THE GREAT EXPIRIMENT\"
 

Ok, to save confusion I have taken to calling them "Seed ships" for the Last few Posts instead of colony ships to differentiate them from the ships you will be perfectly capable of building yourself.

Quantum reactors will be researchable as always, but you will not be able to build them until you research them later in the game.

However, I will be including one on each of your Seed ships at the beginning of the game so you don't run out of resources while searching for a new home.

Technically if you had some way of anylyzing the reactor, you would be a step closer to being able to build it yourself, but there is no way to anylyze it until you have a space yard. And you won't have a space yard until you colonize a planet. And once you colonize a planet, no more reactor... You get the idea.

(I suppose you could plant a colony, research ship capture, build a ship with boarding parties, and then find and capture one of the other races seed ships. But there is NO way anyone is going to take that long finding a home.)

Geoschmo

Re: New game starting on PBW, \"THE GREAT EXPIRIMENT\"
 

What he means is even though you have a high-tech colony ship complete with the El Cheeze reactor, you will have a basic tech start- no analzing the reactor (kinda a given, since you only have one ship)!

Phoenix-D

Re: New game starting on PBW, \"THE GREAT EXPIRIMENT\"
 

I figured as much. Just covering all bases. (Hello! McFly!)

Also, whither intelligence? Disabled due to the bug?

Quikngruvn

Re: New game starting on PBW, \"THE GREAT EXPIRIMENT\"
 

Ah yes, Intel. That is another thing I had not addressed yet, but I have given it some thought.

My feeling is this. With 10 players, (I am assuming we will get 10, we already have 6!) and with a low tech start and no planet, It will be quite a while before people get established and are able to research applied intelligence.

Malfador should be back from vacation soon. Once they are I am hoping the CI bug will be high on the priority list, and it will get fixed quickly. Perhaps before it can be used in the game?

I would like to not restrict it arbitrarily. How would everybody feel if we just say no one is permitted to build intelligence centers until the Ancient Ones (that's me) say it is permitted? I can keep an eye on it and make sure no body does. I am not planning on playing in the game anyway.

"Research the technology if you want, but no building Intel centers until I say, or suffer the wrath of the Ancients once again." http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

If everybody doesn't like this idea, I can just turn it off.

Geoschmo

Re: New game starting on PBW, \"THE GREAT EXPIRIMENT\"
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by geoschmo:
"Research the technology if you want, but no building Intel centers until I say, or suffer the wrath of the Ancients once again." http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like that idea. The Ancients, being persnickety anyway, will not tolerate intelligence until they deem the child races are worthy. Or something like that.

(So much for bulking up my race by dropping cunning! And I was going to get Propulsion Experts and Natural Merchants! Now I gotta have a 'respectable' empire....)

Also, when I joined the game, PBW would not let me leave my empire password blank, so I put in what I'll use. Will this screw up your setup, Geo?

Quikngruvn

Re: New game starting on PBW, \"THE GREAT EXPIRIMENT\"
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Quikngruvn:
Also, when I joined the game, PBW would not let me leave my empire password blank, so I put in what I'll use. Will this screw up your setup, Geo?

Quikngruvn<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, in fact I don't want to confuse anyone here. Be sure to use and remember a password when you join the game on PBW. The password I wanted left blank was the actual password used when setting up your empire file. But I have since realized this is not a good idea.

It's best if you just go ahead and load you empire file with a password and then email it to me so I can get the scenario setup.

For the two of you who already uploaded your file, if you aren't ancient race, don't worry about it. If you are, I can set it so you can reupload. Let me know.

Geoschmo


[This message has been edited by geoschmo (edited 26 July 2001).]

Re: New game starting on PBW, \"THE GREAT EXPIRIMENT\"
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>IIRC the empire income is 200 of each per turn. Base storage is 50K of each per turn.
...
Because of this I am staying away from anything that would require modded data files after the second phase of the game begins. (There is a bug with 1.41 that causes the command line mod support that was added not to work right.)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>200, eh? Has that been increased by one of the patches? I thought P&N boosted the value more than double...

Does PBW not support mods under v1.41?
What about v1.3?

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (forum thread).
-&lt;Download V2.1&gt;- (Now with extra scenario support!)
-&lt;Download V1.7&gt;- (With default AIs patched)
-&lt;Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7&gt;-
-&lt;Download SJs latest AI Patcher&gt;-
Visit My Homepage

Other Links:
-&lt;Play By Web&gt;-
-&lt;Schlock Mercenary&gt;- (great space-based webcartoon)
-&lt;8-bit Theater&gt;- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

Re: New game starting on PBW, \"THE GREAT EXPIRIMENT\"
 

Command line mod support was a feature added with Version 1.41. Unfortunatly, it donta worka no gooda. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Prior to 1.41 there was no command line mod support.

Actually Mods can be done on PBW with Version 1.41, or 1.30. (1.35 doesn't work on PBW at all because of a different bug) However, because of the command line mod feature not working, it would require a separte SE4 installation on the server, with a different path.txt file. This is a can of worms because of the extra use of hard drive resources. I think the plan is to wait until the next patch to start taking mods again.

Geoschmo

Re: New game starting on PBW, \"THE GREAT EXPIRIMENT\"
 

QUOTE:
&gt;&gt;"Research the technology if you want, but
&gt;&gt;no building Intel centers until I say, or
&gt;&gt;suffer the wrath of the Ancients once
&gt;&gt;again."

&gt;I like that idea. The Ancients, being
&gt;persnickety anyway, will not tolerate
&gt;intelligence until they deem the child
&gt;races are worthy. Or something like that.

/QUOTE

This gives me an idea for this game and others: Geo plans to host the game without partiipating, right? But as the "ancients" he wants to be able to punish anyone who breaks the rules.

This would be difficult as just a host, but what if he played a "gamesmaster" race of ancients? It would be simple enough, it's just scenario modding. Here's how I see it:

The Ancients occupy a single system in the far corner of the map. This system has a sphereworld and a host of maximum value planets. Their immensely powerful tehnology and carefully constructed defences make them utterly impervious to attack (except maybe at the end of the game, when the triumphant race must challenge the ancients to win their freedom).

Using racial traits, advanced intelligence capabilities and super-cloaked sensor satellites, the ancients can see anything and everything that happens in the galaxy. When they don't like what they see, cloaked warships stationed in nebulae can react quickly to chastise anyone who breaks the rules.

Fortunatly the ancients use their vast power responsibly. They have a strict policy of non-interference excpt in crtain circumstances which have been made clear to all the member races. The ancients are interested only in observation, not the petty games of conquest and expansion played out by "lesser" species.

Of course with the intel bug this could backfire, and someone could hit an ancient megaship with a crew insurrection, but once that problem has been solved, gamesmaster races could allow interesting scenarios with more complex rules to be developped, since there would suddenly be a way of enforcing those rules.


------------------
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"I think so Brain but, if you replace the P with an O, my name would be Oinky, wouldn't it?"

Re: New game starting on PBW, \"THE GREAT EXPIRIMENT\"
 

this is thoroughly inspiring. The only regret I have is that the GM will not be able to fairly participate in many scenarios created in this fashion, as they will have fore-knowledge of the geography or of other players placements.

I do think that the one or two super-ships or super-planets at the start is a cool concept. super-planets could even be designed by editing the default construction file and the facilities.txt once the game was generated, the facilities would revert to standard and it would have high production, or whatever. you could even make tiny planets with 50 facilities or something.

super ships would actually require playing a turn as each race though, and while it sure would be neat, it means the GM has to sit out unless there is a room for a 'supervisor' race. I like the idea of the players having to overcome the GM at the end... I think i am going to have to start one of these up, since i obviously have too much time to spend posting on this forum, i should probably be playing games instead.

all those silly people that think I should spend my time designing networks obviously have not played SEIV yet. who needs income.

------------------
"...the green, sticky spawn of the stars"
(with apologies to H.P.L.)

Re: New game starting on PBW, \"THE GREAT EXPIRIMENT\"
 

Ok, we have ten players now. Will start as soon as I get all the empire files and can get the scenario set up. Probably will be a few days.

Regarding the empire passwords....

I have changed my mind a couple times and I know I have caused some confusion. This is the OFFICIAL statement of what to do regarding your empire password for this game. Please disregard any previous statements or emails if they contradict this statement.

IF YOU HAVE NOT UPLOADED YOUR EMPIRE FILE YET:
Upload their empire file to PBW with a password on it. Please make sure the password in the empire file matches the password you used when you joined the game on PBW. Then email me the password. This is because I need the empire passwords to run through some turns and set the scenario up correctly. (Keep in mind, I do NOT need your PBW login password. You should NEVER give that to anyone.)

IF YOU HAVE ALREADY UPLOADED YOUR EMPIRE FILE:
If you uploaded it with a password, great! Now email it to me.

If you uploaded it with no password and you did NOT take the ancient race racial trait, then no problem. You can just change your password when you do your first turn. Noone will get any advantage from peeking at your starting position, as you will all be in the same position anyway.

If you already uploaded your empire file with no password, and you DID take the ancient race racial trait, then the problem is when the first turn goes out to the players, someone who did not take the ancient racial trait could open your empire and get a peek at the quadrant for free. If this is you, just email me the password and I will change it before I send the first turn to all of you.

Geoschmo

Re: New game starting on PBW, \"THE GREAT EXPIRIMENT\"
 

Well, after one false start cause I fubar'd the initial setup, we are underway!

Thanks alot to SJ for the tips on using mod files to setup the scenario. That took a LOT less work the the way I was going to have to do it.

Geo