Any Plans
 

For a price cut and maybe a release on the Steam?

I cant convince anyone to give the game a try when they'll have to drop over 60dollars to just get the thing


And well Steam would just be some nice exposure ..

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Have them download the demo. I've gotten a few guys hooked just from that!!

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The demo doesn't do the full game justice IMO...heck, the full game doesn't do the full game justice until you've played a few full games of it to learn how stuff works =)

But yes, it's better than nothing. Just let anyone that you point in the direction of the demo know that there's a LOT more content in the full release.

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Hmm, the Demo got me to buy the game. Otherwise I would have probably passed. While not all-inclusive obviously as the full version, the Demo does give as true representation of gameplay and what to expect.

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I agree, the demo as far as demos go is very generous. There is plenty of playing on offer and after a couple of days with it, i was in and ordered. The cost may be a bit steep, but there is nothing else like it and i don't mind paying for quality.

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Well, of course, the demo leaves a lot to be desired. That's why it is a demo....to make you desire the rest. It worked for me....and it worked for a couple others I know. Still probly the best gaming bucks I ever spent!!!

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What the heck is "the Steam"?

*checks Wikipedia*

Okay, so Steam is something where I have to register by telling lots of private information about myself and install some spyware-esque program which requires that I have an internet connection to be able to get and play games? Sounds great, sign me on!

*checks the Steam webpage*

"Requirements: Windows 2000, XP or Vista"

Wait, what?

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In it's defence though, Steam does have a large userbase. Well, that's maybe not in it's defence, but you know what I mean.

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Eh, I don't know what the royalties are to sell something off Steam. It might even get the game more popularity. But apart from streamlining the game to support those forced updates it would require the manual / game guide in a digitized form, and I don't expect that this happens in any time soon.

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No. Realistically Dominions probably isn't the kind of game Steam are aiming to sell.

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Stardock (Totalgaming.net) would be more likely, if only because Brad Wardell is a fan of Dominions (I found the game via one of his posts on the GalCivII forum).

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Speaking of Stardock... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

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My understanding is that Stardock is quite benevolent. People keep on saying things like that on the GalCivII forums and Brad gets a bit upset. I guess there's some basic level of annoyingness required for that kind of program.

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Not completely true. You can start steam in offline mode, and still play plenty of games.
Its also nice to be able to get a new computer and just load up steam to play your own games again - or play them at someone elses house.

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I haven't found stardock annoying at all. It isn't like you have to leave it on - you just start it up every now and then to check for patches and browse through some other stuff.

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Steam sucks.

But to address the actual original question it is extremely doubtful it will be offered as a download (there's a reason why we went all out with the manual, after all), but if it ever was offered as a download it wouldn't be with another company, but direct from us.

And if your friends are balking at the $54 cost there are a couple things to bring up:

1. You can play the game daily for years and still discover things. Ask anyone who's been playing since release day one. Therefore the cost to fun ratio is extremely high.

2. $54 gets you what, about a tank and a half of gas? A week's worth of groceries for one person? Five days of lunch? What's going to last longer, everything I just listed or the game?

3. You can spend $60 on a console game that has six hours of gameplay.

It should also be noted that periodically we offer sales, and if your friends are by any chance university students or in the military, we offer a discount program for students and military personnel. Details can be found on the store site, look for the "Savings for Scholars and Soldiers" link on the bottom left.

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Exactly, standard console game costs $59.99 + tax. And if you live in Europe there is a huge discount made by US goverment, that is low value of dollar http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

And there were many topics stating that selling small amount of copies is much more expensive [per copy] than tens of thousands.

I guess many people tried here pirated version, especially in the beginning, when it was really hard to get it. But that game is sure worth buying and paying full price. Try to name 10 games with playability over 2 weeks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

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Panzer General & sequels, Civ/Civ2/AC, MoM, Moo I & II, XCom, Thief I & II, Nethack, Moria & clones, Starcraft, and ... and ... and ... oh, brain freeze ... and ... oh, Warlords or TG16 Military Madness or Sega Master of Monsters. or something like that.

But I only play Dom3 these days http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

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Xcom Apocalypse, Planescape Torment, Fallout 1+2, Warlords DLR, Jagged Alliance 2, Gladius, System Shock 2, Warcraft 3, Total War series, Startopia, Galactic Civilisations 2, Devil May Cry 3, Dynasty Warriors series, Diablo II etc etc ETC.

There are thousands of excellent games out there.

I personally think Dom3 is expensive in comparison with other games, because I never buy games at full price, I buy them when their price drops. This didn't happen with Dom3 and clearly wasn't going to. I have my money's worth, but I would tell anyone planning on buying dom3 to try the demo first. I wouldn't feel the need to warn people when it comes to cheaper games.

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I've linked em all to the demo.. Again they cant get past the price. And really i find the demo pretty underwhelming it gives you basic idea about the game play but doesnt let a person truely appreciate the variety of nations and strategy not to mention mods .And all thats very important considering the lack luster graphics .


People have limited funds for entertainment products . 60 dollars for an indy game is a pretty big investment ..And the people im talking to arent big console gamers and most assuredly not the kind that drop 60dollars for a shooter that'll last em one day.. Not to mention PC games are usually cheaper than console ones so not even a good comparison.

So just curious if there are any plans about a price cut.

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Shouldn't that be the other way around?
cost to fun ratio = cost/fun. If cost/fun=high, then the game costs a lot when considering how fun it is.
Instead, it has a high fun to cost ratio, so fun/cost = high = a lot. Considering the problem is that the game costs a lot you get: fun/(a lot) = a lot => fun = (a lot)^2, which is much more descriptive of Dominions 3 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

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If someone can't see how much variety and strategy the game has from the demo, they haven't spent enough time playing the demo.This is a pet peeve of mine. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif Gamers are notorious cheapskates who often seem to forget that games are a luxury item. They constantly whine about how expensive indy games are, even after people have repeatedly explained the concept of economies of scale to them. I'd rather see Shrapnel and Illwinter stay in business and make more games, than try to placate the complainers who will never be satisfied with a game's asking price.

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If they do not buy every crap that comes to market they should have a lot of money to spend on few good games. And they spent at least $1000 for their computer, so I am sure they can spend $50 every few months for a game.

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A few times during a year shrapnel games might provide a 10% to 15% discount. I purchase about 3 games during a year and would definitely recommend buying this game for any TBS gamer.
IDEA_1: If these friends are relatives you could buy them the game as a birthday present.
IDEA_2: You could also uninstall the game on your computer, let them have your copy of the game for one week thus you'll have to play other games. After a week passes they uninstall the game and return your copy of the game back to your hands. One week should be enough time to determine whether or not they enjoy the game. This idea will only work if these friends are honorable and local to your area.
IDEA_3: If any of these friends visit your house once a month or more then you can organize a hotseat game on your computer.
IDEA_4: If they play at least 3 different games in the demo those friends will probably enjoy it enough to purchase the game. At least that's what worked for me on the Dominions_2 demo.

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I think you guys are forgetting that you already know how awesome Dominions 3 is. For someone who just plays the demo and looks at the cost, it's not nearly the same. It's very easy to spend $60 on something that ends up being complete garbage, so they're looking at the risk that Dom3 might be another one of those situations.

When you're younger, you have far less money and are far more attracted to flash rather than substance. Most gamers can tell you a story about how they saved up their money for the hottest newest game, bought it at full price, and got burned by what ended up being a complete waste of time.

We take that hard lesson with us as we grow up, and even full grown adults with expendable income are reluctant to spend what they feel is a corporate big budget price for an indy game. Of course we can tell them what a fool they are for not getting Dominons, but there is reluctance all the same.

I'm not really sure how to fix this. Obviously the developers deserve the money, but maybe there is a way to create a price break for a Dominions "light" vs. a Dominions "gold". The light version costs less, has full functionality, but perhaps slightly less content. Fewer nations, maps, maybe just Early Era. The gold version would of course be the real deal. Dominions "Light" players could at some point in the future pay the difference to upgrade to gold if they wanted the increased content.

Maybe not the best example, but I'm sure there's some business model that could solve this. Personally, I had to buy a 2nd copy for my friend because he thought it was too expensive. Which meant that I had to wait for his birthday, which meant the world of Dominions went without their God for several months. What a travesty! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

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sector24:

Oh yes, Heroes of Might and Magic 4&5, what a waste of money...

With so many crap games today really many people pirate games and then buy ones they like. But it is not a thing to recommend to anyone. I just try not to touch anything made by EA and it makes choices much easier http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I have 2 games only now, Dom3 and ET:QW.

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I don't think the price here is as much an issue as the total lack of flash. Forgive me, because I really do love the game, but I do not think it is marketed well. I think one web site with the descriptions of the kingdoms from the book, along with appropriate graphics, could really help sell this game to the right audience. I think most strategy/fantasy gamers will respond to things like "Atlantis is inspired by lovecraft" and so on.

Just a thought, and I make no claims as an advertising consultant, but I do think a bit more "art" needs to go into marketting this game.

-Jeff

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I think that's a very good point jaif. When I come across a website with a load of background detail I always end up reading the whole thing and then really wanting the game. Dominions could do amazingly well like that.

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I've been thinking of doing few Dominions-based animations some day. Huge battles, grass catching fire under the Abysian army, demonbred or three flying above it all and raining fire and brimstone over their enemies - and a pretender crushing the whole Abysian army with relative ease. At the moment I'm at the "trying to model a human body" phase though, so it'll have to wait for a while. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

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@ Agrajag: Heh heh. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

@ Theonlystd: As you can probably already guess, my feelings run along the same line as Capnq's response. I wanted to take a moment to further point out a couple of more differences.

The mainstream retail market has conditioned consumers to expect to see games marked down within weeks of release. Depending on how popular the game is, this mark down could be as much as 50% for those not selling well. Online retailers, needing to (a) compete with the brick and mortar world and (b) needing to sell in large volume typically mark down their games. Again, this creates a condition whereas the consumer expects to never have to pay full retail price for their game.

One of the initial reasons the indie world sprung up was to give the developers/publishers control over their own destiny, such as avoiding the scenario painted above. An indie developer can set their price and not worry that in two weeks after release they'll have to cut the price by 10%, 20%, et cetera.

And where does the money go between mainstream and indie games? For mainstream developers they're lucky to see even a dollar off of every purchase. Sometimes they see nothing.
For the indie developer though they're seeing a nice chunk of change for each purchase, which in turn means things like for the next game they can afford to upgrade their computers, hire more artists, and so on. Why would anyone volunteer to essentially take a pay cut as time goes on? Does anyone at a "normal" job say, "Hey boss, I've been here a month, please cut my salary in half!"

It's also interesting to me that folks sometimes expect indie games to cost less, simply because they're indie titles. I think some of that comes from the fact that too many developers undervalue their products, and sell everything for $19.95, although this has never been true for other publishers such as HPS, Spiderweb, or Stardock.

But here's some food for thought: in the real world outside of computer games "indie" products normally cost *more* than their mass produced items. For example, when buying a one-of-a-kind handcrafted bed you're going to pay more than a made in China, pressboard bed. So really, shouldn't indie games actually end up costing *more* than mainstream games, since they're handcrafted labors of love?

What if we strip the indie label though? Why not look at Shrapnel as simply a publisher who doesn't sell in brick and mortar stores?

In the end, hey, I know nothing I said above will ultimately make a difference for your friends to decide to open their wallets. People spend money as they see fit. But I hope it at least provides some insight as to why things are as they are.

Finally, yes, as I mentioned and as others have, there are periodical sales, although you won't ever see anything approaching 30-40% off. I just checked Amazon and they have it for $49.99, and it ships free. But no, don't expect any drastic price reductions in the near future.

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Very True... these developers like many others were more concerned about providing great graphics and thus came at the cost of reducing game content, map size, game balance, and other features. I recall watching one Heroes_IV interview where a developer was so happy displaying the pretty graphics... made me want to stuff gernades down his throat after discovering the stuff missing/reduced from Heroes_III. Unfortunately many developers push a game with a main focus on graphics for career reasons... it's easier to show what you developed than explain the importance of a powerful artificial intelligence you created.

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S.R. Krol:

I wouldn't really agree on that. There are aware and unaware consumers. They have different buying habits and there are way more unaware ones. That kind of people will buy many new games on the day of release and pay full retail price, even if he could buy it 20-30% cheaper, the same day, in different store. Other people will be more careful, they will often check demos and/or download pirated version. They will also look for the best price. But they are minority. At least it looks like that in US and I guess the same goes for Western Europe [situation in poorer countries is really different as many other factors come in the way].

The thing that works best on about 90% gamers are good advertisement [by good I mean lots of it, not quality] and nice graphics. Dominions doesn't have anything. But everything needs money, making a new game with good 3d engine costs at least $5M dollars, I guess that with the amount of nations and contents Dominions have it would be at least $10. And you would be able to post beautiful screenies. But even then you would have to spend millions on ads and to pay all that review sites to give you good scores [I guess no one here is naive enough to trust that sites]. And for that you would have to sell that game in B&M stores, so you would have to share your profits with the shop, publisher and so on.

They will get some money from Dominions 3 but it will be far from enough to make that campaign for Dominions 4. I just hope they will take regular salary and contribute all their time [40 hours per week at least http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif] for Dominions 4 or other great game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

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NTJedi:

IT is not about easier, it is what their bosses expect from them. Most companies make games for money, not for gamers. Illwinter is one of the few examples of games made 'by gamers for gamers'. 2 other that I can think of are Blizzard and Splash Damage/ID Software.

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Well i wouldnt be asking about this only a few weeks after release.. Its been over a year ..

And it wouldnt really be a pay cut unless of course the game is still selling at rates comparable to when it was just released ..


When you buy a 1 of a kind handcrafted bed some guy spent countless hours on making that one just for you.. Unless every copy thats sold is reprogrammed from scratch or something thats not a good comparison . The reason console games and such cost 60 dollars now is cause you need a team of hundreds working 8 to 5 for months at a time to get graphics up to the level expected . And thats also the reason people expect indy games to be cheaper is cause they dont have the costs involved in hiring a team of artists and all that. Which makes subpar graphics acceptable to.


Personally i think a price cut would help get some more people interested in buying the game and such..

But if you have no plans on doing that..Well its your guys game :p

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My friend was also a bit skeptical about the cost, so I bought him a copy! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Seriously, I can say that no other game I have (except Rome: Total War, and that's only because of the mods Rome: Total Realism and Fourth Age: Total War) has kept me as involved and interested as Dom. It is worth every penny.

I also don't think it's just money. Some (most) people just don't want to spend the time/have the time to learn a game as complex as Dom.

That being said, I'd be more than willing to pay some more (though not full price) for a expansion pack/Gold edition that has an updated manual with all the new nations, and a complete bugfix.

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That is basically what the Dominions 3 demo does.

Costs less = free - check.

Full functionality = OK, I suppose this is arguable, but I don't think that not being able to check out the map editor(s) is going to change anybody's purchase decision. The only limits to game play I've noticed in the demo are the upper limits on research and number of turns, both of which fall under "less content", IMO. (Haven't tried to do a network game, so I don't know if that's functional.)

Less content, fewer nations & maps, Early Era only - check x4.

I don't see how a "lite" version between the demo and the full game would be anything but extra work for less return for the developers.

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@Zeldor: Actually you'd be surprised at how little advertising matters. What really impacts sales? Good reviews. For all the folks who say "Bah, I don't read reviews because the reviewers all suck/are on the take/only grade in 7-8/yadda yadda yadda" there is always an immediate spike in sales when a new review crops up. And if there is one thing that Dominions has gotten is plenty of reviews, from the smallest publication to the powerhouses. Hell, the Bruce versus Tom column in CGW (now GFW), which wasn't even a review, brought a lot of fresh eyes on the game.

@Theonlystd : The argument about cutting the price to attract more people crops up periodically and the response is always the same. At what point do you stop cutting the price?

It sells for $54. Okay, we cut it to $44. Now someone comes along and goes, "If it was only $10 cheaper I bet more people would buy it..." Okay, so it's now $34. And it goes on and on and on, until finally someone goes, "Hey, if it was free then you'd even get more people to play it!" That's fine if you're doing it as a hobby, but rather silly from a business perspective.

And really, no offense to those that argue that they'd buy it if it was only $___ (insert whatever price here) cheaper, but we're not talking about something that is selling for hundreds or thousands of dollars. Really, if you can afford $44 you can afford $54.

Oh, one last thing. Dominions 3 had more pre-orders than any other game we've ever offered, and has been in our top three sellers every month since its release. So yes, it continues to sell quite well.

As suggested have your friends check out the game. I'm sure they'll come around and realize they can forego something else in their monthly budget for Dominions. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

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Well, the huge amount of pre-orders might correlate with the fact that pre-orders were 10$ less, if I remember correctly...

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The pre-order price was $47.50, so seven and change cheaper than the normal price. I really doubt that was the reason for all the pre-orders though, as most folks aren't going to pre-order a product unless they already have an interest no matter how discounted the pre-order is. Rather, I would think most folks pre-ordering where already fans of the series, with a smattering of people they've talked into joining the cult.

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Neither state of the art graphics or state of the art artificial intelligence is easy. Each game has a senior lead developer who decides the features, content and graphics of a game. The boss of the senior lead developer typically give the deadlines and type of genre for the game.

Another company which made games for gamers was Bioware... hence Neverwinter Nights. Recently they've been bought by Electronic Arts... so things might change.