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The Daily Iraq errors report
OOB 17
The following units are armed with weapon n.7, the AK-74. Units 245 407 408 433 434 435 461 462 463 466 467 468 470 471 472 476 477 488 785 786 787 788 789. This should be replaced with weapon n.8 the AK-47. Despite the bewildering variety of AKs employed Iraq always sticked to the 7.62mm x 39. At most an exception may be made for some of the SF units in the 461-472 range and even there it is pretty unlikely. For its own manufacture Iraq got a license from Yugoslavia to make Tabuk rifle, but always in 7.62mm x 39 (Sources: Jane's, US Army Iraq Country Handbook and others). For online references see: http://www.janes.com/extracts/extract/jiw/jiw_0384.html Pretty much all the people I have asked to have confirmed me that the old iraqi military, the new one under construction (until phased out by the M16/M4 being issued) and the insurgents use AKs 7.62mm x 39. No AK-74 to be seen, not in quantity at any rate. A 5.56mm version was also made http://www.janes.com/extracts/extract/jiw/jiw_0385.html but as far as been told it was meant for export and never mass produced. No 5.45mm in any case. |
Re: Iraq errors report
Now to the RPGs
The following units are armed with weapon 19, the RPG-7V. 269 408 413 434 435 461 462 477 488 518 519 520 703 740 762 770 770 774 777 779 787 988. These should be rearmed with weapon 18, the RPG-7. The RPG-7V is probably supposed to represent one of the high end RPG warheads. In reality however the iraqis had to make to do with the usual PG-7G/PG-7M and the likes, capable of roughly 330mm of penetration. Some higher end weapons have been used by the insurgents but in very small quantities only and definitively were not in widespread service in the old iraqi army (or the new one for that matter). Weapon 156 should be enough to represent those few modern RPGs. You can read the naval explosive ordnance disposal division reports here: https://naveodtechdiv.jeodnet.mil/IraqOIG/iraqoig.asp The RPG warheads are under the "rocket" list. It is a very comprehensive list of the ordnance found in Iraq. |
Re: Iraq errors report
Staff, please read this post!
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Re: Iraq errors report
Yes, yes, it's been read and noted... Don |
Re: Iraq errors report
There are some issue with the availability dates of soviet weapons.
The mistake the OOB designer did was assuming that Iraq purchased soviet weapons in the postwar period. In reality this only happened after a coup which took place in 1958. Before that Iraq was strictly an US-UK client and the UK was the main source of arms. Units 1-15-16-41-574-572-570-349-347-345-330-311-211 are AFVs. Their availability date should be changed to to february of 59. The first shipment of armor, together with the related advisors and tech support,arrived in february of 1959. It was composed mostly of T-34-85 but others types were present. T-54 were noted in a british intelligence report dated march 1961 and may have been shipped together with the T-34s and the SU-100s. The following are artillery units 53-76-86-93-101-103-171-173-177-231-232-235-238-266-296-297-307-309-428-430-550. January or february of 1959 should be an appropriate starting date. Units 138-140-153-187-255 are aircrafts. The first planes were delivered at the end of 1958, not at the beginning. In any case if at least a minimum of familiarization time is allowed january 1959 should be an appropriate starting date. Unit 340-341 JSIII. They should be eliminated. If not availability date should be changed to 2 of 1959. Sources https://www.cia.gov/library/center-f...article03.html (the british intelligence report) Arabs at War: Military Effectiveness, 1948-1991 by Kenneth Michael Pollack, pg 156 (it gives the date and some data about the first shipment of soviet armor) The World's Armies, by Christopher Chant http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_207.shtml (for the iraqi air force) |
Re: Iraq errors report
Quote:
Now, this just lists the 7V's. OK, I can accept that the Iraqi army did not use the 7V. Do I assume that since you didn't mention the RPG-16 and PRG-18 also in the OOB that these were available ?? or not ?? They are a "very small quantity" item in the OOB used by only a half handful of units Don |
Re: Iraq errors report
Unit 782, ambush sappers uses weapon 156 RPG-7VR.
I purposefully did not mention it because I thought it could fill the role of "limited availability, high end RPG" for the insurgents. A PG-7VR was probably used to disable at least one Abrams after 2003. "Do I assume that since you didn't mention the RPG-16 and PRG-18 also in the OOB that these were available ??" RPG-16/18 were available in some numbers (not huge but some) to the iraqi military and have been found in insurgents caches. There are pictures floating around of RPG-18 toting insurgents. |
Re: Iraq errors report
As I see it the RPG-7V is a questionable weapon to arm anybody in the iraqi OOB.
The denomination itself is debatable, given that the closest match in the real world (600mm of RHA penetration, single warhead) would be the PG-7L as it was discussed here in the past. And regardless of naming conventions I have found no mention of PG-7L use in Iraq. On the other hand it seems some PG-7VR may have been used. So I am in full agreement that one or two odd insurgent units should be armed with something better than basic RPG-7 (or occasional RPG-18/16), but no more than that and weapon 156 RPG-7VR is the best candidate for the role. |
Re: Iraq errors report
OK, Sounds resonable
Don |
Re: Iraq errors report
Now some random stuff.
Formations 725 and 726, Recalled Republican guard. I do vaguely remember the issue being raised at some point during either the Garner or Bremer administration with the intent to use them to restore order, but nothing was done of it, given the uproar it would have caused. They should be deleted. Formation 749, Guer Tanks (Guerilla tanks). There are no reports of the post 2003 insurgents having ever used armored vehicles (there are a few reports of some technicals but that's it). The Peshmerga had some tanks but that since much before 2003, presumably captured during the 1991 struggles. This is an old example (I can dig more recent pictures if you are interested). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:K...Iraqi_Tank.JPG So this formation should be either deleted or made available much earlier. |
Re: Iraq errors report
OK, Noted. I'll look into this
Don |
Re: Iraq errors report
Now some armor and other miscellaneous stuff.
Unit 12, Type 69-II. It should be rearmed with weapon 71 or 72, the D-10T (all the pictures show it with the 100mm rifled gun not the 105mm). Its availability date should be anticipated to 1983 (according to SIPRI arms trade registers) and extended to at least 2015 or the end. An X2 radio code would be also a nice change. If the tons of pictures I have seen are an indication this tank was the workhorse of the iraqi army and was extremely common. It is still in use in limited numbers (a few tens give or take). On the other hand it is questionable that many, if any, Type 69-I were aquired. Supposedly the 100mm smoothbore variant was not very succesful and was not made in large numbers and as far the iraqis were concerned it would have required a separate ammo supply.And while I have seen zillions of Type 69-II, I never spotted a Type 69-I. Unit 618 at a minimum and maybe even 11 should be replaced with the corrected Type 69-II. The M60s. Iraq is supposed to receive a significan (600-700) shipment of M60 later this year. Supplier is likely to be Greece. Tanks will be of the M60A1 Rise and M60A3 TTS varieties. So far however Iraq has never operated the type, the few M60s captured in the 80's were just parked somewhere. Therefore I suggest the following: 1) Unit 9 to reclassed as medium tank. 2) Units 9-10-37 to have availability dates starting from the second half of 2008 Some sources for this http://defensenews.com/story.php?F=2...&C=landwar http://www.longwarjournal.org/oob/index.php |
Re: Iraq errors report
Some more stuff
Unit 34, M-84A. As pretty much every source about it states Kuwait was the only foreign customer. A small number were captured by Iraq, but that was in 1991, not in 1988 as it is in the game now. http://www.vojska.net/eng/armed-forc...ent/tank/m-84/ http://www.military-today.com/tanks/m84.htm Units 95 96 and 205, 155mm A-M FG, 155mm A-M FG CM and 155mm A-M Mines. I have seen no source supporting the introduction of new tube artillery designs in the 90's. They did improvise some rocket designs in that period but no tube artillery. |
Re: Iraq errors report
Now to some new iraqi army equipment that is currently lacking.
BTR-94 M113A1 These two were available since summer of 2004 and in actual service since the beginning of 2005. Spartans are also mentioned but were never subsequently shown or mentioned to be in service so probably they were just parked somewhere. The BTR-94 were actively used for at least a couple of years to be then replaced by M1117 ASV. M113s continue to be used by and delivered to the new iraqi army. http://www.defendamerica.mil/article.../a080904f.html http://www.longwarjournal.org/oob/index.php BTR-80 Delivered since 2006 and currently in service. http://www.deagel.com/equipment/Whee...000348001.aspx http://www.longwarjournal.org/oob/index.php |
Re: Iraq errors report
Re -M84
I think the M-84 was put in as a captured piece but it does appear the dates were wrong . This frequently occurs because the info the OOB designers had at the time was not as clear as it is 5 or 6 years later and the OOB designer is no longer available to ask where the source of this info can be found From you we discover "A small number were captured by Iraq" but not if they were used by the Iraqis so there's a 50/50 chance whatever decision is made about them will be wrong or that new info won't be found three years from now reversing that decision. For now I have renationalized them so they will not show up as a pick. When/if I get more info or find the time to comb through every scenario that might use them I will decide what further steps might be warranted Re-Al-Majnoon arty This complaint also ties in with the Al-Fao FG ( weapon 113---- Unit users of weapon ID 113 210mm Al-Fao FG: 098 - 210mm AF FG : 1 - Available 01/085 to 04/103 182 - 210mm A-F Pl : 1 - Available 01/095 to 04/103 182 - 210mm A-F Pl : 2 - Available 01/095 to 04/103 182 - 210mm A-F Pl : 3 - Available 01/095 to 04/103 360 - Al Faw-210 : 1 - Available 01/095 to 04/103 If looks like they were put in becasue the info at hand either suggested they were in service or were likely in service. Strangely enough hard info on what the Iraqis did or didn't actually have in service was difficult to pin down until the country was overrun. "Wikipedia" which I will not trust without back up sources is more than just a BIT vague.."it does not appear to have entered into Iraqi service and none were captured during the 1991 Gulf War; the programme was probably cancelled thereafter" ........... "does not APPEAR"....... " was PROBABLY" cancelled. Not exactly inspiring wording is it ? And none of that info was available when the OOB was written. However, there ARE problems with these weapons even if they DID make it to service. The "Al-Maj Minelets" were never set up properly as minelets but as cluster instead. Odd nobody noticed for 5 years. I can only guess at the reason for that. However, sources like http://www.faoa.org/journal/iraq9910.html say....... "In June 1988, the Iraqis signed an agreement with Dr. Gerald Bull's 'company Space Research Corporation to design and build two prototypes of the South African G-6 self-propelled howitzer. The result of this agreement is the Al-Majnoon a 155 mm howitzer and the Al-Faw, a 210-mm gun both with enhanced ammunition and a range of 40 kilometers. . " Which seems to suggest this was developed.... Yes ? That was written in 1999 so there one source that suggests it did exist after all even though the wording does not give a lot of detail and that's the type of info we had to work with when the OOB was written. If you have something that catigorically states these things never got beyond the design stage please do share I'll put this on the list and decide what to do when I have more information. Don |
Re: Iraq errors report
At http://armstrade.sipri.org/
In the registries it is written: Al Fao 210mm Self-propelled gun. Two units delivered via Spain in 1989. Planned production in Iraq cancelled. Some pictures (scroll down) http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...d.php?t=124145 Probably taken at the Baghdad Expo of 1989 From what I pieced together these guns were all self propelled (no mention of towed versions) and while they got to the state of prototype in the late 80's they progressed no further. There are no mentions anywhere of their use or mass production especially in the late 90's. Given how the indigenous arms production programs of Iraq were scrutinized before and after 2003 I find doubtful that the production of something so big and complex would have passed unnoticed, without mentioning that the delapidated industrial base of sanctions era Iraq would not have been up to it. I bet that those two prototypes were parked somewhere and forgotten until they were bombed or scrapped. I don't know the game policy about these sort of units. Should I try to find something more about the M-84? |
Re: Iraq errors report
No, I'm just going to pull them out. Let me know if I should remove the minelet arty ( Unit 206 and 566 )
Don |
Re: Iraq errors report
Short answer: unit 206 and 566 should not be available.
Long answer Currently the the iraqi army has no minelet arty. As a matter of fact they have not had any artillery at all beyond mortars since the surrender in 2003, the first artillery units are going to be raised in 2009 if they stick to schedule. At this point there is no way to know if and when they will get some scatterable mines in the next decade without using the proverbial crystal ball. In the past they may have had some limited scatterable mines capacity in the late 80's. They had what is referred to as Ababel/KPTM mine in the american UXO reports, it was seemingly rocket delivered (probably via BM-21 or some other MRLS). As of now I have very little info about the extent it was really an operational weapon. As I see it you could either delete them (I don't remember any scenario using them) or leave them without formation so that they could eventually be modified into actually used weapons later on. |
Re: Iraq errors report
In addition to the BTR-80, BTR-94 and M113 I noted previously the iraqi army has used the MT-LB since the end of 2004.
http://www.defendamerica.mil/article.../a113004d.html In addition also the Dzik-3 since the beginning of 2006 http://www.warwheels.net/DZIK3index.html An additional source about the BTR-80 delivery http://www.janes.com/defence/land_fo...0729_1_n.shtml |
Re: Iraq errors report
Units 219-262-396-603-605-607-912 should be deleted. There are absolutely no plans to aquire these V-150 vehicles (aside from the M1117 offshoot).
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Re: Iraq errors report
In additio to the APCs listed previously Iraq uses also:
Panhard M3 since late 2004 http://www.defendamerica.mil/article.../a113004c.html Up armored HMMWVs http://www.defenselink.mil/news/news....aspx?id=48700 http://www.mnf-iraq.com/index.php?op...mp;lang=arabic http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Armo...ed_HMMWVs.html |
Re: Iraq errors report
Some of the old iraqi army EE-9 Cascavel have been refurbished and put back in use. Availability starting from january 2008 (I guess it could replace unit 603, the V150 armored car variant).
http://www.blackanthem.com/News/scit...les13820.shtml Some BMP-1s, since 2005 http://www.defenselink.mil/home/feat...-02-Report.pdf http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...planned-01512/ http://www.armyrecognition.com/moyen...aq_news_06.jpg |
Re: Iraq errors report
Now some units that should not be there, or at least be there with the availability dates they have.
Unit 46 Avenger They have not it and certainly it hasn't been in the iraqi inventory since 2005. However given the nature of the system (american made, currently in service etc.) I cannot rule out that they may aquire it at some point in the future. I suggest a date change to 2010 Unit 215 M728 CEV Same as above. They don't currently have it but I cannot rule out they might aquire it. I suggest the date being pushed forward to late 2008 or later. Unit 301 BRDM-2b with TI sights No such thing existed or was planned, although I understand it might have been a reasonable speculation back then. Unit 333 Impr F/T APC Flame tanks are so non PC these days it isn't even funny. No such thing has ever been just only mentioned. I suggest it to be deleted. Unit 381 M48A1 Chaparral Never been supplied and unlikely to be. Unlike the Avenger it is also pretty much a dead system, especially by when the iraqi army will have started to worry about AD. Unit 831 Vulcan AA Gun Not there for now. http://www.longwarjournal.org/multim...-Equipment.pdf And various others sources. EDIT All the previous vehicles have 2005 as starting date. |
Re: Iraq errors report
Continuing
Unit 361 M109A3 availability date 2005. They might get them in the future, once they will have raised artillery units in 2009 but for the moment they aren't available to them.I suggest a date change to 2010. Unit 371 HAWK III SAM availability date 2005. Again they might get them in the future, once they will have raised AD units but for the moment they aren't available to them.I suggest a date change to 2010. Unit 525 M113A3-106mm availability date 2005. No such thing was ever done. For "Gun APCs" they have some ZU-23s mounted on MT-LB. And some BMP-1 IFVs of course. Unit 750 TOW Team availability date 2005 Unit 387 Stinger Team availability date 2005 These were never issued and chanches are that they might buy something else if my source is to be trusted. I suppose that maybe in an emergency (say an iranian attack or something) they could have got some, after all it does not take as much time to learn to operate them as an heavy SAM or a tank. |
Re: Iraq errors report
Units 950-951-952-953 F-16C available since 1 of 2005
Units 963 AH-1 Cobra/TOW available since 1 of 2005 This is what indeed they are likely going to get, especially the F-16s. However timeframe is going to be 3/4 years from now at least, while in the game these units are available since 2005. For the present time they have been operating MI-17 with rocket pods for few months and some armed turboprops are supposed to be delivered later in this year. Until then no fixed wing attack aircrafts will have been in service since the fall of Saddam http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...ircraft-03281/ http://www.special-operations-techno...cfm?DocID=2137 http://www.stratfor.com/memberships/109032 http://www.longwarjournal.org/oob/index.php Unit 13 Type 69-QM (125mm) end date 4/2003 Unit 22 T-55QM (105mm) end date 12/2005 Unit 23 T-55QM2 (125mm) end date 4/2003 Unit 657 T-55QM (105mm) end date 12/2005 I recommend the final availability date of unit 22 to be restricted to 4 of 103, unit 657 to be deleted, and units 13-22-23 to be given the X3 radio code. These upgrades programs were one of the various military projects the iraqis had going back in the 80's. As usual hard info is limited. The only source for the 105mm upgrade is the "T-55QM Iraq (had NATO-standard 105mm/L68 gun installed replacing the old 100mm gun,along with a French laser rangefinder)" tidbit which repeated by various sources on the web. Of the 125mm upgrade I have a picture of what appears to be a Type 69 fitted with a 125mm gun taken at the Baghdad expo of 1989. According to what I have been told the 125mm upgrade was problematic as supposedly it required a purpose built autoloader, it retained the 100mm recoil brakes and various others issues. It is very unlikely that it was put in production and it was never spotted afterwards. The 105mm on the other hand posed no particular technical challenges. However logistically it was incompatible with the other army tanks. I cannot rule out that a small series was made but again it was never spotted or referenced to as being produced or fielded. |
Re: Iraq errors report
ZU-23 fitted MT-LB in iraqi army service, since 2005.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/News/...-2_Iraq_04.jpg In addition the iraqis have been equipped with M1117/ASV (it could replace unit 912, V150 Commando) http://www.armyrecognition.com/moyen...aq_news_02.jpg http://www.iraqdevelopmentprogram.or...ews/new356.htm http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....amp;highlight= Unit 360 Al Faw-210. As I noted previously a prototype of the Al Faw was made but it was a wheeled G6 lookalike. I suggest it to be deleted (no game scenario uses it AFAIK) or replaced with a more accurate version. |
Re: Iraq errors report
Unit 355, M109, availability date 1975-1995
The iraqis did not aquire M109 in 1975.No such delivery is listed anywhere that I could find. They did however capture some M109A1 during the iran iraq war. http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/al_jaber...997QA_001.html http://www.iran-e-azad.org/english/nla/fortystars0.html While, as I noted previously, the iraqis had little use for iranian tanks the captured APCs and SPAs were quickly put in service. Here is an unfortunate iraqi M109A1. http://www.flickr.com/photos/12bravo...7594073501593/ |
Re: Iraq errors report
Some random pictures of Type 69-II tanks in iraqi service.
As I noted in a previous post this tank was a workorse of the iraqi army. They were armed with D-10T rifled guns (or its chinese clone at any rate). No 100mm smoothbores or 105mm rifled guns. http://www.flickr.com/photos/12bravo...7594073501593/ http://www.armyrecognition.com/moyen...le_Tank_31.jpg http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/l...MST9111661.jpg http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/l...MST9111674.jpg |
Re: Iraq errors report
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...ad.php?t=76897
specifically http://64.40.99.49/Multimedia/pics/1...photo/1190.jpg the photo under the caption............"captured Iraqi Army French built Crotale SAM and T-55 MBT " any ides what that 8 wheeled vehicle on it's side is ? Don |
Re: Iraq errors report
Honestly looks more like a Roland SAM carrier of some sort. There were a number of truck mountings, but this one doesn't look familiar.
Something similar to the German FlaRakRad, just on a different chassis. My copy of Jane's Weapon Systems 1986-87 lists Roland in Iraqi inventory, which I also realize is in the default OOB. Roland being French/German could easily have led to the confusion with Crotale. |
Re: Iraq errors report
Probably this.
http://www.army-technology.com/proje...d/roland1.html There are some reports that the iraqis did ask for some crotale systems but the jury is still out whether they did get them or not. |
Re: Iraq errors report
My vote on that pic also goes to the Roland.
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Re: Iraq errors report
Unit 546 ASTROS, availability date 2005-2020.
No such thing currently in service. To be honest it is unclear what this unit is supposed to represent. ASTROS rockets were used by truck mounted MRLS like unit 554, no fixed or towed launcher were considered. It should be deleted. Unit 554 ASTROS-30, availability date 2005-2020. Wrong availability date. According to SIPRI trade registers the first units were delivered in 1984. Regardless of the exact year it was definitively an 80's affair, not a post 2003 development. Its availability date should be changed to something like 1/84-4/103. Unit 563 ASTROS 30 Bty, availability date 2005-2020. For the same reasons stated above this unit should be deleted. Unit 560 Sajil-30 is already available in the 80's and Sajil-30 was the iraqi designation for the 127mm ASTROS rockets. Unit 560 Sajil-30, availability date 1975-2020. Start date should be changed to 1/84, like it is already for Sajil-40 and Sajil-60 anyway. EDIT Some additional sources http://www.uga.edu/cits/documents/pdf/BrazilXC.pdf https://naveodtechdiv.jeodnet.mil/IraqOIG/iraqoig.asp |
Re: Iraq errors report
Unit 55 M40 PH Team, availability date 2005-2020.
Unit 810 M40 Recoilless, availability date 2005-2020. Incorrect availability dates. As far it is known there are no plans to issue the new iraqi army with these weapons. The old iraqi army did however use them, starting from the 50's. I suggest a date change to, let's say, 1/57-4/103 http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,821169,00.html Iraq Country Handbook https://naveodtechdiv.jeodnet.mil/IraqOIG/iraqoig.asp |
Re: Iraq errors report
Unit 351 Jeep/106 RCL, availability date 2005-2020.
Incorrect availability date. As described in the previous post it should be changed to something like 1/57-4/103. |
Re: Iraq errors report
You do realize how all this totally buggers up the picklists don't you ?
Did you overlook or ignore units 53 and 54 yesterday? Don |
Re: Iraq errors report
Quote:
What I am doing is compiling a list of issues with the iraqi OOB, with their possible solutions and the relative sources all in a single thread to be used for reference purposes. For the present time I am concentrating mostly on the units themselves. I do understand they cannot be all implemented in the short term because a lot of work would be necessary to modify the formations and the picklists to accomodate the units changes. The problem of course is that the iraqi army ceased to exist in 2003 and did so in a pretty throughout manner. The personnel dispersed and the infrastructure and equipment were aggressively looted (tank engines ripped out to make village generators, artillery scrapped etc.). The new armed forces have been rebuilt little by little and many capabilities have not been implemented yet. In game terms this would mean that for example that the old iraqi army artillery formations would stop at 4/103 with new ones startng at 1/109 (or whatever) and the picklists would have to accomodate that. As I said I understand it is a lot of work and this thread is meant to be mainly as a reference for eventual future patches. Quote:
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Re: Iraq errors report
Some chinese weapons that should be added to the game as Iraq purchased and used them in some numbers during the Iran Iraq war. I suggest availability dates in the 1/84-4/103 range for the AA guns and 1/84-12/120 for the 107mm rockets, as they are still in use by the insurgents.
Type 65 AA gun http://news.webshots.com/photo/13094...67710444IPjOZq http://photobucket.com/mediadetail/?...;pageOffset=11 http://photobucket.com/mediadetail/?...;pageOffset=14 Type 55 AA gun http://photobucket.com/mediadetail/?...p;pageOffset=1 http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/l...NST9208063.jpg Type-63 107mm MRL https://naveodtechdiv.jeodnet.mil/IraqOIG/iraqoig.asp SIPRI registers |
Re: Iraq errors report
The new iraqi army has been using T-72 since the end of 2005. Judging from the pictures they appear to be T-72M/M1 variants (mostly T-72M).Hungary was the supplier.
http://www.defendamerica.mil/article...111405tj1.html http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...planned-01512/ |
Re: Iraq errors report
Could we assume they are both using the same "gun" then ?
Don |
Re: Iraq errors report
Game wise I think that weapon n.158 in the iraqi OOB would be a good fit. That would also avoid using up another weapon slot.
EDIT In reality what type of ammunition has been purchased so far was not specified. For all that it is known they might have got BM-15 past their expiration date. However they are purchasing additional T-72M/M1 from eastern countries with the goal of fully equipping a tank division (the others divisions would eventually get western tanks) and I would guess that the above gun would be the best candidate for the sort of ammo that would realistically be aquired. |
Re: Iraq errors report
Some additional stuff, for eventual future patches.
Formation 205, Inf-AT Section and 206, Mot Inf-AT Sec. Incorrect availability date: they begin at 1/55 but the template unit is available since 1/46. The formations should begin at 1/46 too. These two formations have availability dates 1/70-12/120 Formation 36, Motorised Co Formation 51, Motorised Pl. The only difference from formations 35 (Motorised Co) and 50 (Motorised Pl) is the presence of an organic SAM. To the best of my knowledge there is no reason why such unit should have an organic SAM in the 70's while republican guard mechanized units should be without in the 80's. I suggest the following change 1) Formations 35 and 50 have their final date extended from 12/74 to 4/103 2) Formations 36 and 51 have their availability dates changed to 1/105-12/120 3) Their structure could be changed to reflect the new iraqi army organization: a command section (one squad and two HMMWV) and four platoons with three squads and three APCs each.The organic SAM should be deleted of course.(although new iraqi army organization is still somewhat fluid) Formation 6 Tank Co (SPG) Formation 7 Tank Co (FT) Formation 9 Tank Co (Amph) I suggesto these formations to be deleted. The standard iraqi tank company pre OIF was composed by a two tanks command section and three tank platoons with three tanks each as correctly portrayed in the game now. There is no indications that formations like the above were employed as standard and in any case cross attachments can deal with the any specific needs. Formation 15 Amphib Tank Pl End date should be restricted to 4 of 103. There is no sense in it going on after the PT-76 are phased out. Formation 18 SP-Gun Pl It might be asppropriate to restrict the final availability date to 12 of 1988 instead of 1991. As far as I know the vehicles in this formation were gone before 1991.T-55/54/59/Type 69 were in plentiful supply by then, making those vehicles redundant after the end of the war with Iran. According to "T-34-85 Medium Tank 1944-94" by Steven J. Zaloga some T-34s were dragged out from storage to replace wartime losses during the war with Iran (exact timeframe is not specified but from some pictures found www.militaryphotos.net it would seem in the first years of the war). Also a close support T-34 should be made available, with 2/59-12/88 as availability dates. Unit 8 M47 The iraqis did not make substantial use of captured tanks (unlike APCs and SPAs). Some Chieftains were handed to the Mojahedin-e Khalq who may have driven them out of their storage sheds once in a blue moon or so until OIF. But that's it. If any M47s were captured they were parked somewhere. Unit 36 Assad Babyl I suggest icon to be changed to that of a regular T-72 and final date to be extended to 4/103. While the tank looks a bit different from a regular T-72M1 if seen from certain point of view it is not enough to warrant a different icon. http://www.jedsite.info/tanks-tango/...byl-intro.html Unit 25 T-62A Availability dates should be extended to 4/103. Otherwise the only T-62 left after 1981 is unit 26 T-62M. This in the game sports a laser rangefinder, which iraqi T-62s typically did not have. Unit 45 ZSU-23-4M Availability date should be anticipated to before Kuwait invasion. 1993 is puzzling as a starting as date effective sanctions were already in place. Unit 67 BMP-1a Up armored BMP.There were two up BMP armoring projects. http://www.jedsite.info/fulltrack-br...dam-intro.html An 80's up armoring program prototype, which was probably not put in production. And a less extensive one, which may have seen limited production. http://www.jedsite.info/fulltrack-br...am2-intro.html It should be decided which one this unit should represent. Unit 332 TO-62 It should be deleted. I have asked around and it seems that either it never existed or if it did it was a prototype/limited production item not exported. |
Re: Iraq errors report
Iraqi T-62 tanks. Two main versions were used in the Iran-Iraq/Gulf war period
The "vanilla" type http://64.40.99.49/Multimedia/pics/1...photo/1217.jpg http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesdale10/2267829065/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/snakeblocker/48227102/ The "improved" type http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/l...62-11_iraq.jpg http://www.silentlywedefend.com/T62.JPG http://news.webshots.com/photo/10327...34874941aEiYcL About the only difference I can spot is armored protection for the IR projectors, (although there may be further differences in things like sand filters and what not). In any case nothing that would show up in the game stats. A small number was fitted with Type 69 style side skirts but that's it. If any were fitted with laser rangefinders I have never seen them (an addon LRF would have been external in that timeframe), although I have heard (but not seen) that at least one prototype was made fitted with it and I cannot rule out a limited batch production. So, as I noted in the previous post there should be T-62s without LRF available in the 1980-2003 timeframe and they should be prevalent. Units 28,586 and 617: TR-77 tanks. I suggest their availability starting date to be anticipated to 1982 (currently they are available since 1987). Unit 617 is available until 2020 but all the T-55 type tanks in the new iraqi army service are T-55/type 69. Final date should be 4/103 at the latest. According to the SIPRI registers about 150 of these tanks were delivered between 1982 and 1984. Realistically I doubt those few tanks may have survived past the Gulf War, maybe not even the Iran-Iraq war. They certainly should not be available past OIF. Unit 523 BMP-1a Same issues as unit 67. |
Re: Iraq errors report
Some further food for any future updates.
Infantry weapons of the new iraqi army Assault Rifles The AK has been the standard rifle of the new iraqi security forces after 2003. It has been in the process of being phased out since 2007, with the first M16s being issued in May of that year. The goal is to replace all AKs with the M16/M4 as quickly as possible. Going by the numbers it would seem that by the end of 2008 most or all of the regular troops will be armed with M16/M4. http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?s...9&archive=true http://www.military.com/NewsContent/...162878,00.html http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/...FNaT8/610x.jpg Machine guns The PK has been the standard machine gun in the iraqi army, being used both as LMG and MMG, as well as on vehicles and such. Some RPKs may have been used as well but not as many as the PKMs. In addition some quantities of M249 SAW and M240 MMG machine guns have been requested but the replacement of the PK is not regarded as urgent as the replacement of the AK-47. http://flickr.com/photos/jimbirt/262223546/ http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Im...e_Gun_Iraq.jpg http://www.deagel.com/news/FMS-Iraq-...000000978.aspx In the HMG class cal 50 have been used. http://www.defendamerica.mil/article...061605wm3.html AT weapons The RPG-7 is the standard antitank weapon. A small quantity of american LAWs has been purchased for testing purposes. Like for the machine guns there is no pressing need. What ATGM is going to be selected is unknown at the moment. According to the rumor mill the supplier may be european. Mortars American 60mm mortars were issued starting from 2005. 81mm M252 mortars were issued starting from june 2008 and 120mm M120 mortars have been ordered as well. http://www.longwarjournal.org/multim...ge14-notes.pdf (for the 81mm and 120mm ones) |
Re: Iraq errors report
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Nevermind, thanks for the update! |
Re: Iraq errors report
Have a candidate for the .50 - Polish WKM-B, which is basically NSV rechambered for 12.7x99.
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Re: Iraq errors report
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Iraqi troops training on M240 machine gun alongside PKMs http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...raining_lg.jpg This was a 2006 picture. It does not mean that they were actually issued but there was some interest in the weapon already back then. New Iraqi security forces RPG-7 gunners http://newsblaze.com/pix/2006/0511/pix/soldier-rpg.jpg http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/...sF1Yi/610x.jpg rpg.jpghttp://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:ISF_member_armed_with_RPG-7.jpg http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/...tP53I/610x.jpg |
Re: Iraq errors report
Something else to add from today. link
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