MA Tien Chi in 3.10
 

I looked around, but I don't think there were any threads about this rather significat workover they got. Which is kind of suprising, or then everyone at Dominions got super elite while I was away, and can easily see their weaknesses and strengths. But eh...

So let's talk about Tien Chi.

Well. Now the commanders (most of them) look really cool. So, uh, that's nice. The plethora of fortune tellers seem to be kind of tailored to counter the ill effects of Misfortune. I suppose Order coupled with Misfortune is still a very potent strategy?

The veggie chemist mages. The Apotechary guy is cheap, but strikes as kind of "meh what's the point". The Alchemist is better (I think he's got the healing power also), but 1N with 1 Random isn't very heart warming.

The Ministers of Magic are neat, cheap researchers are always nice. I once noticed that they could be recruited in labless castles. WAD? The Geomancers...hmmm...they look like they're just *made* the forge the Communion Matrix items. Apart from that, they aren't too hot. But they are fortune tellers. And old.

Master Of The Way and Celestial Master look pretty much unchanged.

But the Imperial Alchemist...oh wow. Lots and lots of magic. But is it useful? At least he isn't not burneded by a Magic Duel risk. Nature opens up at least Eagle Eyes, and I think he can use battle magic, depending on his pick. Now...thinking...I'm thinking that perhaps these guys could be equiped with the Communion master matrix and have Ministers of Magic/Apotecharies/Alchemists/whatevers as slaves, boost them to a level where they can do higher level spells and use Relief and whatnot.

I see some Ministry Troops have been added. Somewhere halfway in power between the weaker and the stronger infantry? OK.

What kind of research and magic strategy you would use for MA Tien Chi? TC still strikes me as kind of a lots of magic, little coherence nation, or maybe it's that I haven't played this game seriously for a rather long time. Hm. Rush for Communion Matrix items? Use the evocation combo spells (magma, acid). Boosters? What?

Re: MA Tien Chi in 3.10
 

Just two notes:
Ministers of Magic are WAD as far as I can tell, just like certain other units with randoms who can be recruited without a lab.

And I personally really like Geomancers. Yes, they can forge communion items nicely. But they are also cheap, fortune teller researching mages who are more reliable than Ministers of magic, and slightly cheaper(but 2 more upkeep, due to being non-sacred) - and in my opinion better mages - than masters of the way. They are great communion slaves, being the cheapest guarenteed S1 that Tien Chi gets. They also make great communion masters - getting access to high level astral magic and high level earth magic for spells like Gifts from Heaven, Will of the fates, army of gold/lead, weapons of sharpness ect. Their summon earthpower also boosts their slaves reinvigoration.

Re: MA Tien Chi in 3.10
 

Summon earthpower boosts the slaves revigeration?

I'm playing MA TC right now and am still very new to Dominions. It's about turn 16, my research is coming along fine because I've concentrated on it, but gem production is spotty. No fire and little astral.

With only level 1 or 2 in any form of magic (without boost) TC mages seem to be at a disadvantage to Bandar Log mages who have fewer paths but higher levels. This is particularly a concern to me with Astral (magic duel), since so many TC mages have S1 or a rare S2, as opposed to Bandar Log mages who can have S3 or 4.

What's the best way to deal with this, only use non-S mages in battle? My Pretender is high in Astral so making the items isn't a problem once I get to Const6 - still need the gems.

Re: MA Tien Chi in 3.10
 

Yep. Self-buffs cast by a communion master will affect the slaves. This is particularly spiffy for Earthpower, since that 4 reinvigoration synergizes well with fatigue spreading.

By the way, you have to be really, REALLY careful if a communion master ever casts 'Phoenix Pyre'. Done as part of a plan, the results can be interesting. Done unintentionally, and, well, they can be hilarious.

Re: MA Tien Chi in 3.10
 

FedSlayer, don't forget buffs like mistform or ironskin/invunerability on your communion slaves if you can take the time - personal luck is good too, anything to keep 'em safe. Quickness is also great if you can combine it with a banner of the damned if you have a limited number of slaves(2 drain life casts per slave per turn should handle fatigue) and ranged weapons+quickness is also nice.

For astral mages, a pretender with high magic showing up, perhaps via teleportation, can take out a large number of enemy mages who want to magic duel you. Rishis can get S4 iirc, so you will probably need either very high astral - I think 7-8 gives you 100% chance to beat S4 but I'm not sure - or immortality would be best to keep your god safe.
The threat of a teleporting god should keep enemy magic dueling low, although raiding parties/other small forces should probably avoid using many astral mages.
Master alchemists, perhaps taking advantage of crystal/slave matrixes(slaves on regular alchemists might be best for path synergy), could pick up the slack when you don't have god-support for your forces.

And as for making items to boost your astral power for protection, I don't think item/spell/communion boosts actually help against magic duel, and even if they do the enemy has natural S4+items to use against you.

A communion consisting of many slaves - perhaps thugs(who can have flying shoes instead of mass flight) with slave matrixes buffed with phoenix pyre, mass flight and some other buffs such as summon earthpower, invunerability, quickness, mistform, mirror image ect may seem a little silly but can be devastating. With either summon earthpower and reinvigoratino items(and possibly relief), or simply expendable slaves, you can do alot of damage to an enemy while the flight allows them to reach the enemy quickly to avoid your own troops. If the thugs trample it is even better as they can reach the middle of the enemy formation.

Just tossing out some random ideas while bored and sleep deprived - I hope you enjoyed reading http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.

Re: MA Tien Chi in 3.10
 

Power of the Spheres is also really great to cast with a Communion Master.

Do thugs need at least one magic path to get boosted by communion buffs through a slave matrix?

To beat an S4 with 100% chance you need S9, since they both get a d6. Assuming by "beat", you mean mutual death. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: MA Tien Chi in 3.10
 

Taqwus:

To be exact - huge explosion killing all your mages. The sad thing is that there is practically no way to prevent it. Last time 16 mages died because of that - in last turn of battle, when last enemy unit was routing [and I had 0 losses].

Re: MA Tien Chi in 3.10
 

Damn, for the magic duel atleast.

Power of the spheres is great for masters, even if they just cast it to boost the slaves they have(maybe 1 master casts power of the spheres, and one casts a helpful buff like summon earthpower?).

I don't think thugs need magic to be boosted, although obviously they need it to be boosted in a specific magic path(ie no free E1 mages through summon earthpower), but my communion thugs have tended to be Golems as I love misc slots so I can't say for sure.

For Zeldor: Did they have flying? Its rare for a flyer, whos only chance to be beside important units of yours is the turn after he dies and respawns in an unlucky place, to be killed on the same turn of battle that he respawns in such an unlucky place.

Re: MA Tien Chi in 3.10
 

Shovah32:

They didn't respawn. Communion master cast Phoenix Pyre and it passed on slaves and all of them were really fatigues. So there was huge explosion and no one respawned [because of fatigue].

Re: MA Tien Chi in 3.10
 

Makes for a really amusing battle replay though.

Re: MA Tien Chi in 3.10
 

Although that could tie in nicely with the worries about Mind Duel. Get a communion master to cast phoenix pyre on the first round, then get the slaves to spam Duels.

Re: MA Tien Chi in 3.10
 

Might be a bad idea. The dueling mages probably have a high chance of losing their duel against the enemies, exploding, respawning within your own forces(or enemy forces, dying again and getting more fatigued) and blowing them up after losing their next duel.

Re: MA Tien Chi in 3.10
 

Yes - S1 only has a 1/6 chance of killing S4 in a duel, or 10/36 for killing S3. I only suggested it because if you're TC going up against Bandar/Arco in MA, it might be a better way of going up against therir astral mages than sitting there waiting for them to duel you. If the master casts Power of the Spheres too, odds are 10/36 for S2 v S4 and 15/36 for S2 v S3 (NB: these odds include the chance of mutual annihilation - if you don't have Pyre up this might be a bigger concern)

A bit of MM can reduce the odds of at least the first death of each slave hurting any other casters.

Re: MA Tien Chi in 3.10
 

No sort of booster helps magic duel.

Re: MA Tien Chi in 3.10
 

Oops.

Re: MA Tien Chi in 3.10
 

I realized that Nature opens up the path to Eagle Eyes, which is suprisingly nice little spell as it turns even mundane Fireballs and Acid Bolts deadlier.

Or well, more precise, but that's slightly the same thing, especialy against more regular units.

I'm still trying to think a solid use for the Alchemists and Masters of The Way.

Re: MA Tien Chi in 3.10
 

Masters of the way aren't terribly useful, although with frozen heart they can be nice. They are also decent researchers - 20 more gold than geomancers but 2 less upkeep due to them being sacred.

Alchemists are protected from magic duel, but thats about all.

Re: MA Tien Chi in 3.10
 

You're right that eagle eyes is very nice. Aim would be too if it had a self target version.

Perhaps in that little mod,...

Re: MA Tien Chi in 3.10
 

Most nations access 2-3 magic types, so will rapidly find 2-3 types of gems. (Although by my experience getting N1 mages is pretty easy, from tribesmen provinces.) T'ien Ch'i have a lot of magic paths, so you should have an astronomical gem income. Hire a few of the best multipath ones early, and march them from province to province searching the easy sites.

Secondly, a wide range of magic skills gives enormous versatility. I've forgotten the number of times I've thought "I wish I could access spell X", but my nation simply doesn't have that path open to it.

Re: MA Tien Chi in 3.10
 

Yeah, that's true. Tien has immense site searching power. An Imperial Alchemist or two doing searching and someone shooting out that Astral site finding spell (I keep forgetting it's name :/ ) is superbly effective at finding pretty much all the gems you need.

Re: MA Tien Chi in 3.10
 

Whatever you do, DON'T cast Internal Alchemy. If the blatant overpricing of the spell doesn't deter you, let the fact that it AGES your caster rather than reduce their age do so. =)

Re: MA Tien Chi in 3.10
 

So much to learn that a lot of this is over my head. On magic duel each of the involved duelers adds 1d6 (not open ended) to his/her level of Astral Magic. So an S1 would have a 10/36 chance to defeat an S3?

On a roll of 6 the S1 would kill an S3 rolling a 1 thru 4
On a roll of 5 the S1 would kill an S3 rolling a 1 thru 3
On a roll of 4 the S1 would kill an S3 rolling a 1 thru 2
On a roll of 3 the S1 would kill an S3 rolling a 1
On rolls of 1 or 2 the S1 can't kill the S3

Due to ties killing both mages there is a 30/36 chance of the S1 being killed, or a 6/36 of the S1 surviving if you want to think of it that way.

Correct?

Given enough expendable lower level astral mages you can take out an astral mage 1-2 levels higher, but it will be expensive.

MA Tien Chi in 3.10
 

And now, what to do about a rampaging herd of elephants. Besides staying out of their way what's the best thing to do to counter them? I'm thinking the Panic spell might be a good start, but maybe not. What to do, what to do!!!

Plus there is that peskey F9 dragon pretender.

Re: MA Tien Chi in 3.10
 

Panic is good. So are high defence units. Gifts from heaven and other high damage evocations are nice too, as is anything MR based(soul slay ect).