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Cloaking Planets
I know that a while back this topic was brought up, and I was wondering if anything came of it. IE, is there any component or Facility that can be, or has already, been editted to cloak a planet?
Any help is appreciated. Thanks. ------------------ "We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats! They invade our space and we fall back -- they assimilate entire worlds and we fall back! Not again! The line must be drawn here -- this far, no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!" -- Captain Picard STNG New Age Ship Yards |
Re: Cloaking Planets
There is no function in Se4 to cloak planets per se, however I believe you can create a storm in the same sector as the planet which would effectivley cloak the planet. It might even trick a human player unless they had been to the system before and remembered where all the planets are.
Also I think if the player had the ancient race racial trait, they would know there was a planet there, but not be able to see or attack it unless they had sensors that could see through the storm. We could also mod in a new type of sight obscuring storm that had as it's bitmap a pic identical to the starmap background. This would cloak the planet and also not show up as a storm. However IIRC there is no way to create specific types of storms. I belive it is random. Also, I have never done any of this so I am not even sure this would work. There may be some hard coded thing that would prevent a storm being created in the same sector as a planet. Geo |
Re: Cloaking Planets
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Atrocities:
I know that a while back this topic was brought up, and I was wondering if anything came of it. IE, is there any component or Facility that can be, or has already, been editted to cloak a planet? Any help is appreciated. Thanks. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Planetary cloaks - and planetary engines! - are on the todo list. He's just been so busy with bugs that he's not been able to add all the features he'd like yet. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Boy, that's gonna be scary when you can cloak a planet and set it moving. Stock a huge cloaked planet with dozens of WPs thousands of drones and go on the attack into your enemy's home system... http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif If you've got space yard and a large population you can probably crank out replacements as fast as you fire them off. |
Re: Cloaking Planets
Try doing this with the map editor.
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Re: Cloaking Planets
Planetary engines?
Oh my. I wonder if they'll work on Sphereworlds... now THAT would make an, er, interesting, suitably terrifying enemy. And for some really large games of pool... ------------------ -- The thing that goes bump in the night |
Re: Cloaking Planets
Yeah. Mod in some weapons platforms that only fit on constructed worlds. Really massive mounts. Direct fire weapons with 100x damage and 15x range. Multiple planetary shield generators. Cargo facilities loaded with fighters and troops. Come up with higher levels of multiplex tracking so you can take on whole fleets by yourself.
It wouldn't even have to be fast. Just the sight of it coming through a worm hole would make you wet yourself. AIIIEIEEEEEEE!!!!! |
Re: Cloaking Planets
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dracus:
Try doing this with the map editor. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I have. It does work, except for the fact that the planet names will appear on the map if the game is set to display them. However, if you go to that planet and try to colonize it, it won't let you. Didn't test to see if having the right sensors would help or not. Wish it would work for warp points... |
Re: Cloaking Planets
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Yeah. Mod in some weapons platforms that only fit on constructed worlds. Really massive mounts. Direct fire weapons with 100x damage and 15x range. Multiple planetary shield generators. Cargo facilities loaded with fighters and troops. Come up with higher levels of multiplex tracking so you can take on whole fleets by yourself.
It wouldn't even have to be fast. Just the sight of it coming through a worm hole would make you wet yourself.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You get that effect from the BattleMoons in P&N v2. With a CoreMount weapon, you can do 10,000 damage per shot. Even a poorly designed BattleMoon can walk through a stack of Dreadnaughts. With racial techs like crystalline armor and allegiance subverters, you'd be blowing up your own stars to kill it. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Planetary engines? Oh my. I wonder if they'll work on Sphereworlds... now THAT would make an, er, interesting, suitably terrifying enemy. And for some really large games of pool...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sweeet. Build a sphereworld, move it out of the system, create a new star, build another sphereworld, repeat. Then you get to cruise around with a stack of 10 sphereworlds supporting an attack fleet of 100 battlemoons. ------------------ The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (forum thread). -<Download V2.1>- (Now with extra scenario support!) -<Download V1.7>- (With default AIs patched) -<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7>- -<Download SJs latest AI Patcher>- Visit My Homepage Other Links: -<Play By Web>- -<Schlock Mercenary>- (great space-based webcartoon) -<8-bit Theater>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters) |
Re: Cloaking Planets
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
Build a sphereworld, move it out of the system, create a new star, build another sphereworld, repeat. Then you get to cruise around with a stack of 10 sphereworlds supporting an attack fleet of 100 battlemoons. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> my god, all you would have to do is to move a sphereworld through someones solar system and things would be ripped out of orbit by the gravitational pull. planets would go sailing through asteroid fields, temerate worlds would freeze and day/night cycles would be thrown out of whack. if you moved 10 sphereworlds through a system, i bet the gravitational shear alone would tear planets appart. ------------------ "...the green, sticky spawn of the stars" (with apologies to H.P.L.) |
Re: Cloaking Planets
You wouldn't have much gravitational shear (no more than the inner planets already experience from their own star). You could really screw up the orbits of everything in the system though, including the star(s) orbit around the galaxy.
You would also sweep a chunk of space 15 light-minutes in diameter as you fly. (A single sphereworld would fill the space between earth and the sun). Perhaps you could install planet busters and increase the value of your sphereworld as you absorb more mass. The internet on a Sphereworld would be really laggy, seing as even a fiber-optic connection would have a 45 minute ping time to the other side of the world. ------------------ The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (forum thread). -<Download V2.1>- (Now with extra scenario support!) -<Download V1.7>- (With default AIs patched) -<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7>- -<Download SJs latest AI Patcher>- Visit My Homepage Other Links: -<Play By Web>- -<Schlock Mercenary>- (great space-based webcartoon) -<8-bit Theater>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters) [This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 27 July 2001).] |
Re: Cloaking Planets
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The internet on a Sphereworld would be really laggy, seing as even a fiber-optic connection would have a 45 minute ping time
to the other side of the world.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Umm, I'm thinking if they can build and move a sphere, they can probably get around that little problem http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Phoenix-D |
Re: Cloaking Planets
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
You wouldn't have much gravitational shear (no more than the inner planets already experience from their own star<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> i dont know, if 10 spheres suddenly appeared from out of no where and breezed on by, especially if they suddenly pulled a stellar body in the oposite or perpendicular direction that it was traveling in, i bet there would be some rather serious tectonic problems going on. you could plan incursions and pop a sphere in just long enough to halt a planet in its orbit, then warp it out and wait for it to fall into its sun. ------------------ "...the green, sticky spawn of the stars" (with apologies to H.P.L.) |
Re: Cloaking Planets
By definition a ringworld/sphereworld has a STAR at the center. This is what anchors it and gives it stability. Moving such a structure would require a coordinated move of BOTH the star in the center and the structure orbiting that star. Not simple, and obviously would require more than an "engine" facility on the orbiting structure. Given that the very existence of a ringworld or sphereworld is a science fiction concept requiring science we have not yet imagined, I guess we can't rule out the ability to move one to a race with the ability to build one... http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif But I think as a practial matter of game play it would be wise to NOT allow these to move with an engine facility. A huge planet packed with WPs would be the ultimate seige weapon for attacking a ringworld or sphereworld, though.
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Re: Cloaking Planets
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Umm, I'm thinking if they can build and move a sphere, they can probably get around that little problem<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Get past the problem of sending information faster than the speed of light?
We know how to make a ring/sphereworld, we just don't have the tools right now. FTL is a totally different ballgame. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>i dont know, if 10 spheres suddenly appeared from out of no where and breezed on by, especially if they suddenly pulled a stellar body in the oposite or perpendicular direction that it was traveling in, i bet there would be some rather serious tectonic problems going on.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>To get problems like that, you'd have to have a big difference in the gravitational force from one side of the planet to the other. That won't happen, because you'd have to be inside the star before the grav.shear gets noticably high. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>By definition a ringworld/sphereworld has a STAR at the center. This is what anchors it and gives it stability. Moving such a structure would require a coordinated move of BOTH the star in the center and the structure orbiting that star. Not simple, and obviously would require more than an "engine" facility on the orbiting structure. Given that the very existence of a ringworld or sphereworld is a science fiction concept requiring science we have not yet imagined, I guess we can't rule out the ability to move one to a race with the ability to build one... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Just have an extra planetary engine on the inside of your sphere, and aim the thrust at the star. You slowly move your world with the second engine, and use the first one's jet to push against the star. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>But I think as a practial matter of game play it would be wise to NOT allow these to move with an engine facility. A huge planet packed with WPs would be the ultimate seige weapon for attacking a ringworld or sphereworld, though.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah, but definitely allow it to be modded in, or maybe make the sphereworld require 100 "engines per move"! Gotta have engines per move on planets. 1 for tiny, 2 for small, 3 for medium, etc. ------------------ The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (forum thread). -<Download V2.1>- (Now with extra scenario support!) -<Download V1.7>- (With default AIs patched) -<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7>- -<Download SJs latest AI Patcher>- Visit My Homepage Other Links: -<Play By Web>- -<Schlock Mercenary>- (great space-based webcartoon) -<8-bit Theater>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters) |
Re: Cloaking Planets
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
You would also sweep a chunk of space 15 light-minutes in diameter as you fly. (A single sphereworld would fill the space between earth and the sun).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Jeez, why even put weapons on the thing? Just put a buckload of shields and shield regenerators on it, fire up the engines, then... RAMMING SPEED! Or, maybe put in a specialized Sphereworld-only weapon, the Spring-Loaded Planet Thwacker. Essentially, it'd be a metal plate that's several hundred thousand miles in diameter that springs out of the sphereworld at the hapless planet. Then it's "Homeworld, corner pocket"! (A 200-million-mile wide artificial structure is already inconceivable to me, and now you want to move the thing? The necessary thrust would be enough to incinerate any planet....) [edit] Oh yeah, while we're at it, tachyon internet. That should take care of the lag.... [/edit] Quikngruvn ------------------ Ponder this: Scientists already knew that matter is 98% empty space. After they figured out the structure of protons, they determined the remaining 2% is mostly made up of... well, nothing. Who says God doesn't have a sense of humor? [This message has been edited by Quikngruvn (edited 28 July 2001).] |
Re: Cloaking Planets
JEEZ! What a goofy topic! I'm not going to get into a debat if this could actually happen, but personally I think it is impossble to just slap a few hundred engines on a planet and "Let'er fly!!!". No, sorry guys, although the rest of you may like the idea of using this in your mode, I'm going to offically ban it from my project of a SFB mod (assuming I ever get it done).
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Re: Cloaking Planets
Now, you know the enemy has this horribly huge and powerful planet coming your way. How do you stop him?
It seems to me, if we can turn a big sector of asteroids into a planet of some stability, we should be able to turn that machine into a weapon. Sure, that mobile ring world is big, but if I can force asteroids together to form a planet, I can put pressure on the outside of your ring world, which is already being pulled in by the star’s gravity, and watch the whole thing crumble. Ok, you have some defenses, but I will have a number of ships going after you and, for good measure, I will have puts some engines on a few cast off moons and will drive them straight at you. A moon is much more maneuverable than that big old ring world, so I should be able to get it up to some near relativistic speeds and then have it shatter before it hits, really spreading the impact out over your surface. Sure, you can shoot the moon, but that doesn’t bother me, even if you get the engines, the mass and velocity are still there. Niven and Pournelle love this trick. Now, as we are getting far fetched, why would I bother with a moon? After all, you figured out how to move a sun, so why can’t I? Again, one sun is more maneuverable than a sun and a ringworld, so I am going to chase you down with a mobile sun. I will just leave one sitting outside the warp point I expect you at and when you warp in, I will accelerate more quickly than you. Then, my mobile sun heads out to your home system. As someone pointed out, the only way to make a sun go away is to detonate it, which will destroy your system. You either detonate the sun, destroying the system, or I run over your planets with it, destroying the system. Starting to look like Mutually Assured Destruction again. |
Re: Cloaking Planets
ok, help.
where do I find the Facility Family data so I can edit it? <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Name := System Cloaking Shield Facility Description := Finely tuned cloaking feild in an array that prevents scanning. Facility Group := Shields Facility Family := 39 Roman Numeral := 0 Restrictions := None Pic Num := 8 Cost Minerals := 20000 Cost Organics := 0 Cost Radioactives := 5000 Number of Tech Req := 1 Tech Area Req 1 := Shields Tech Level Req 1 := 10 Number of Abilities := 6 Ability 1 Type := Planet - Shield Generation Ability 1 Descr := Generates 5000 pts of shielding for the planet during combat. Ability 1 Val 1 := 5000 Ability 1 Val 2 := 0 Ability 2 Type := Cloak Level Ability 2 Descr := Prevents level 1 Active EM scans. Ability 2 Val 1 := EM Active Ability 2 Val 2 := 2 Ability 3 Type := Cloak Level Ability 3 Descr := Prevents level 1 Passive EM scans. Ability 3 Val 1 := EM Passive Ability 3 Val 2 := 2 Ability 4 Type := Cloak Level Ability 4 Descr := Prevents level 1 Psychic scans. Ability 4 Val 1 := Psychic Ability 4 Val 2 := 2 Ability 5 Type := Cloak Level Ability 5 Descr := Prevents level 1 Gravitic scans. Ability 5 Val 1 := Gravitic Ability 5 Val 2 := 2 Ability 6 Type := Cloak Level Ability 6 Descr := Prevents level 1 Temporal scans. Ability 6 Val 1 := Temporal Ability 6 Val 2 := 2 Weapon Type := None<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> |
Re: Cloaking Planets
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Saxon:
Sure, you can shoot the moon, but that doesn’t bother me, even if you get the engines, the mass and velocity are still there.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Mister Spok, tell the men: It't time to Shoot The Moon. ------------------ "...the green, sticky spawn of the stars" (with apologies to H.P.L.) |
Re: Cloaking Planets
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Oh yeah, while we're at it, tachyon internet. That should take care of the lag....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>"Network error: the system was not responding when connection would have been made." http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon10.gif
------------------ Cap'n Q The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all of its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should go far. -- HP Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu" |
Re: Cloaking Planets
You all need to go back and read "Ringworld" again. In the book, the Pupeteers moved their homeworlds along with a rosette of 5 or 6 suns at speeds in excess of the speed of light on a course out of the Milky Way. Don't say it can't be done. You just can't imagine it.
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Re: Cloaking Planets
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by docshane:
You all need to go back and read "Ringworld" again. In the book, the Pupeteers moved their homeworlds along with a rosette of 5 or 6 suns at speeds in excess of the speed of light on a course out of the Milky Way. Don't say it can't be done. You just can't imagine it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Actually, I think you need to read it again. The "Rosette" was a group of PLANETS not stars. But when they encountered the Ringworld, they were so impressed that they arranged to have Louis Wu sent to investigate, what with their inherent cowardice and all. They seemed to feel this structure was well beyond even their abilities and wanted to know who was responsible for it. Remember its true scale: it had the surface area of THOUSANDS of planets. The SE4 Version is a very inadequate substitute. Gotta like a race which calls its leader "Hindmost". I think the Puppeteers would be a VERY interesting SE4 race if the AI code were smart enough to handle all the special conditions. They'd be the ultimate "Intelligence Specialists" and their homeworlds would be their ONLY worlds. A group of six mobile planets. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif |
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