New PBW game: Ancient
 

Game description

Inspired be some discussion in this Forum, I decided to create a game in an ancient quadrant and see how it works in PBW. In this game you will not only have to deal with other players, but also with the hazards the map provides. There will be no computer players in this game, because they do not handle this kind of map very well. Good planets are rare in ancient galaxies, so exploration will be more important than usual.
NOTE: You are not allowed to be an ancient race for this game as this would spoil the spirit of the game. If you are normally an ancient race: Good for you, you have some extra points to spend http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif.

I have set this up for only four players at the moment. If you want to join and all slots are taken, write me an email and I'll open another slot for you.

Have fun !

Ancient
Starting resources: 100000
Starting planets: 3
Home planet value: Good
Score display: allied
Technology level: Low, Applied Intelligence off
Racial points: 3000
Quadrant type: Ancient
Quadrant size: Small
Event frequency: Medium
Event severity: High
Technology cost: Low
Victory conditions: 400% of second player
Maximum units: 2000
Maximum ships: 500
Computer players: none
Computer difficulty: none
Computer player bonus: none
Neutral empires: No
Other game settings: warp points anywhere in system, Intelligence disabled.
REMEMBER: When creating your empire, you are not allowed to select the "Ancient race" trait. Also set your cunning to minimum, with no Intel you will not need it.

Discussion for altered game setup can be done here.

Rollo

Re: New PBW game: Ancient
 

Hmmm. Perhaps the victory contition should be supplemented with an "only after X years" condition.
In an ancient galaxy, there could easily be one lucky player who starts with breathables in the system while the others fight with black holes.
Scores can be quite sensitive to small changes early in the game.
------------------
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[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 27 July 2001).]

Re: New PBW game: Ancient
 

Yes, thank you. I forgot about that. I suppose 3 years (30 turns) should be enough?

Rollo

Re: New PBW game: Ancient
 

Rollo, I just became your fourth player.

Suggestion, though: 1 planet to start. Two reasons I can think of off the top of my head. With more than one planet, you're able to see from the start at least the neighboring systems to your home system. Also, there's the possiblity of your homeworlds being in multiple systems, so there's more of the map knwon at the start.

(I just realized that in one of my PBW 3-planet games, all my homeworlds are in one system but I can see the neighboring systems, while in the other, my homeworlds are split between two systems, but I cannot see the neighboring systems. Maybe it's just an either/or proposition depending on the size of the map. Has anyone investigated this?)

But I digress. Again. I'm also considering the effect of the ability to make three ships per turn as opposed to but one at the start, but I won't make it a point of my argument. Just a ponderable, really.

Some more ponderables, but not suggestions:

Warp points anywhere? With my luck I'll be surrounded by black holes with warp points dropping straight onto the event horizon!

This would be really diabolical: disable Stellar Manipulation! Then we couldn't do anything with the bLasted things. Please, do NOT disable Stellar Manip. Like I said, just a ponderable.

This should be quite interesting. Lessee... the map will probably be between 24 and 30 systems... only 30% should be inhabitable... meaning there should be between 7 and 9 inhabitable systems in the quadrant... and four will be claimed from the start... leaving between 3 and 5 available for colonization... somewhere in the midst of the 17 to 21 uninhabitable systems... so part of the strategy is going to be... how much of your empire do you devote to Stellar Manipulation? (If you answered "all of it", I'll be visiting your home system in about ten turns!)

OK, enough rambling. Let's play!

Quikngruvn

------------------
Ponder this: Scientists already knew that matter is 98% empty space. After they figured out the structure of protons, they determined the remaining 2% is mostly made up of... well, nothing. Who says God doesn't have a sense of humor?

Re: New PBW game: Ancient
 

Quikngruvn,
thank you for your feedback. I think you are right. If nobody is opposed to that I will change the setup to only one planet.

Warp points anywhere: Yeah, I wasn't sure about that one really. The reason I decided to put it in is that it makes travel around the quadrant faster (Hmm, giving it more thought: Do we really want that?) I guess we can vote on that.

Stellar Manipulation: I will definetly NOT turn stellar manipulation off. Part of the reason we are playing this is that stellar manipulation will be important for your strategy.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>... so part of the strategy is going to be... how much of your empire do you devote to Stellar Manipulation? (If you answered "all of it", I'll be visiting your home system in about ten turns!)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, if you can find me... http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/tongue.gif.

One other thing that just came to my mind while typing this and reading your "diabolical" ponderables: You know what would be really diabolical? Finite resources http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/shock.gif! The more I think about it, the more I like it. I guess we will have to vote on that one, too.

The current polls:

1. planets: 1 or 3
2. warppoints anywhere: y/n
3. finite resources: y/n

Any other suggestions/ponderables? (&lt;--- Hmm, I like that word. I think I'll add it to my vocabulary.)

Come on and vote! Your feedback is appreciated. The majority will decide. In case of a tie I'll flip a coin (much faster than recounts http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif).

My votes are:
1. one planet only
2. no (on second thought)
3. yes !!! (come on, this will be fun)

Rollo
[edit] typos (lots)



[This message has been edited by Rollo (edited 28 July 2001).]

Re: New PBW game: Ancient
 

Kull,
I am actually not aware of the different progressions in tech costs. Could you please explain I little bit further. I understand what you mean by linear progression (level2: double cost of level1, level3: triple cost of level1, and so on...). How is the progression in medium cost?

Rollo

Re: New PBW game: Ancient
 

It took me a couple tries with the search engine, but I found an old post by geoschmo that gave the progressions: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>For a Low Tech Cost Game:
The multiplier is simply tech level. It is linear.
For Example, Ship construction
Level Cost = 10000
Level 2 cost is 10000 X 2 = 20000
Level 3 cost is 10000 X 3 = 30000
Level 4 cost is 10000 X 4 = 40000

For a Med Tech Game:
The multiplier is the result of Tech Level rasied to the power of 2 and then divided by 2.

For example, Ship Construction again
Level 2 cost is 10000 X 2(2 to the power of 2 is four divided by 2 is 2) = 20000
Level 3 cost is 10000 X 4.5(3 to the power of 2 is 9 divided by 2 is 4.5) = 45000
Level 4 cost is 10000 X 8(4 to the power of 2 is 16 divided by 2 is 8) = 80000


For a High Tech cost game the multiplier is
Tech level raised to the power of 2

Ship Construction again
Level 2 cost is 10000 X 4(2 to the power of 2 is 4) = 40000
Level 3 cost is 10000 X 9(3 to the power of 2 is 9) = 90000
Level 4 cost is 10000 X 16(4 to the power of 2 is 16) = 160000
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

------------------
Cap'n Q

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
human mind to correlate all of its contents. We live on a placid
island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was
not meant that we should go far. -- HP Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu"

Re: New PBW game: Ancient
 

Thank you capnq,
(und Danke für die mail, Kull),
okay very well, we'll vote on tech cost also.

4. tech cost: low or medium?

I vote for low.

The way I look at it: Even if you are able to design things like star destroyers, black hole thingies, and whatnot, you'll still have to pay tons of resources and lots of time to actually build those things (remember, we are talking finite resources here). If you are going to spend hundreds of thousands of resources on those things, while for the same price you could also build, say, a dozen or two battleships, I think you have more than deserved to see some spectecular fireworks http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif.

Okay, all empires except mine are uploaded. Last chance for people to join the ride. Also I would like to see some more votes on the setup. I will check, if there is anything new in couple of hours and then probably start this baby around 9-10 pm (Zulu).

Rollo

Re: New PBW game: Ancient
 

I just created a small ancient map with exactly four empires and the whole tech tree visible. Heh. A string of four black holes in a row! But I digress. My opinions:

1) I think you know already! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
2) Sure. I agree with Kull's observation of no warp poins closers than 2 sectors from the center. 'Course, there were a bunch that were exactly 2 sectors away....
3) I've never played finite resources before. Now's a good a time as any to learn!
4) Gotta consider progression on the Stellar Manip line of the tech tree. The breakdown:

Lev, CostLow, CostMedium, Results
1: 100000, 100000, Storm cleanser/producer, monolith I
2: 200000, 200000, Medium planet creator/buster, monolith II
3: 300000, 450000, Warp Point closer/creator I, Large planet, mono III
4: 400000, 800000, WP creator II, Huge planet
5: 500000, 1250000, Star creator, WPC III, Ringworlds
6: 600000, 1800000, Star destroyer, WPC IV, Nebula dissipator, Black Hole collapser
7: 700000, 2450000, WPC V, Nebula creator, Black Hole creator
8: 800000, 3200000, Sphereworlds

Right now I'm leaning towards low cost, because we'll never get to the upper levels on finite resources and medium cost. (Remember, this is in addition to anything else you'd like to research, like maybe weapons, shields, etc...).

Man, this is gonna be one twisted game! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon6.gif

[edit]
I posted a new topic asking what kind of resources you could expect to get from a ringworld or sphereworld under finite resources. Assuming, of courses, you still have the resources to build the thing!
[/edit]

Quikngruvn

------------------
Ponder this: Scientists already knew that matter is 98% empty space. After they figured out the structure of protons, they determined the remaining 2% is mostly made up of... well, nothing. Who says God doesn't have a sense of humor?

[This message has been edited by Quikngruvn (edited 28 July 2001).]

Re: New PBW game: Ancient
 

Hope I can get my votes in on time !

1 one planet-start: why not three? I am afraid of never finding any planet as good as my single home planet, and it would make the first 30 turns pretty boring, development wise. right?

2 warp points anywhere: OFF
3 finite resources: Hmm. I have never tried it, but OK as Quikn said, lets doa ll the experimentation in one game http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
4 low cost of tech: why not, I've never tried it, I always have medium.

Re: New PBW game: Ancient
 

Hi everybody,
thanks for your votes. The results:

1. one planet (3:1)
2. warppoints anywhere: OFF (2:2, but off won the toss)
3. finite resources: ON (4:0) http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon6.gif BTW, I have never tried this before, either.
4. low tech (3:1)

Okay, I'll have dinner now and watch todays footbal games. After that I'll start the game. So, that gives you about two hours to object to the above decisions and get ready for the game.

Rollo

Re: New PBW game: Ancient
 

Hee hee! And four different shipsets even! (Though my ships are the Praetorians', at least my flag and color will be different.)

Quikngruvn, champing at the bit

------------------
Ponder this: Scientists already knew that matter is 98% empty space. After they figured out the structure of protons, they determined the remaining 2% is mostly made up of... well, nothing. Who says God doesn't have a sense of humor?

Re: New PBW game: Ancient
 

Yes, my "shipset" is also just a flag and new portraits and missels. But I think it's much more fun that way. Once dogscoff gets his Space Viking ships finshed, I'll use those instead of the generic. I like the generic, though.

Starting position okay, everyone? Boy, at least we have 2m resources of each on our homeworld.

Rollo

Re: New PBW game: Ancient
 

1. one planet is fine (if all four players had 2 home systems, these would probably be the only colonizable ones)
2. yes - i am playing in ancient galaxies rather often and i have never seen a warp point closer than 2 sectors to the center of a black hole (if the wp damages your vehicle control - bad luck but it would be the same with wp on the edges if you have no repair bays)
3. cruel fate, but - yes (we can start it again if it ends too soon)
4. i would also like to vote on technology cost (tc) and set it to medium because i dont like the linear progression in the low tc setting. medium tc would allow us to reach stellar manipulation 3 for nearly the same price as on low tc (750k vs 600k) but make higher levels expensive to avoid having planet or sun destoying weapons shortly after reaching open/close wp.

Re: New PBW game: Ancient
 

Is there a certain time of day (EST) that all players are at their PC's? I'd like to blaze through the first 6 turns or so within an hour or two.

I am usually available between 2 PM and 2 AM Eastern time (this monday only: 6PM to 1 AM).

Re: New PBW game: Ancient
 

The best time for me is usually 11p to 2a. 'Course, while I continue my Quest for Gainful Employment, I've got quite a but of free time....

Starting position is OK, except for the small issue that my home star is unstable and could collapse at any moment!

Quikngruvn

------------------
Ponder this: Scientists already knew that matter is 98% empty space. After they figured out the structure of protons, they determined the remaining 2% is mostly made up of... well, nothing. Who says God doesn't have a sense of humor?

Re: New PBW game: Ancient
 

Which doesn't actually DO anything, as far as I can tell.

Phoenix-D

Re: New PBW game: Ancient
 

No, not in the text description of the star, but in a bullet point under the star description in big white letters. Hopefully I can get a massive system shield, 'cos a ringworld is still probably fifty years away!

Quikngruvn the nervous

------------------
Ponder this: Scientists already knew that matter is 98% empty space. After they figured out the structure of protons, they determined the remaining 2% is mostly made up of... well, nothing. Who says God doesn't have a sense of humor?

Re: New PBW game: Ancient
 

I had the impression (could easily be wrong) that the bullet point message was an indicator that this star was a candidate for the Star Explodes random event. If the game has events turned off or set at less than Catastrophic, it shouldn't ever actually blow up.

------------------
Cap'n Q

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
human mind to correlate all of its contents. We live on a placid
island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was
not meant that we should go far. -- HP Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu"

Re: New PBW game: Ancient
 

Duh! You're right, Cap'n, and unless Rollo missed that setting, I'm in the clear. I forgot that little detail in my panic.

Rollo, please tell me you really did set Event Severity to High....

Quikngruvn the still trembling

------------------
Ponder this: Scientists already knew that matter is 98% empty space. After they figured out the structure of protons, they determined the remaining 2% is mostly made up of... well, nothing. Who says God doesn't have a sense of humor?

Re: New PBW game: Ancient
 

Well, in the abilities.txt file, it says "value 1: chance the star will explode per year". Thing is, by default that is set to ZERO.. and even setting it to 1000 doesn't seem to have any effect.

Phoenix-D

Re: New PBW game: Ancient
 

if this is accurate, that message does not mean squat:

From Abilities:

Star - Unstable
Value1 = Chance that sun will explode each year.
Value2 =

From Stellar Abilities:

Name := Normal Star
Number of Poss Abilities := 2
Ability 1 Chance := 100
Ability 1 Type := Star - Unstable
Ability 1 Descr := Star is unstable and could collapse at any time.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 0
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Chance := 100
Ability 2 Type := Star - Unstable
Ability 2 Descr := Star is prone to violent eruptions and has an unstable core.
Ability 2 Val 1 := 0
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0


on the other hand, it might simply indicate that only those systems with that tag are candidates for the star destruction random event. i seem to remember a long time ago that value 1 indicated .1% /turn that the star would be destroyed. can anyone who has an old Version installed (like 1.19, i know its the same as above in 1.30) verify this?

Re: New PBW game: Ancient
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Quikngruvn:
No, not in the text description of the star, but in a bullet point under the star description in big white letters. Hopefully I can get a massive system shield, 'cos a ringworld is still probably fifty years away!

Quikngruvn the nervous

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ooops, I knew I forgot something...

No, just kidding, I set severity to high to prevent that, since we already have enough to worry about. We don't want any of our valuable stars to blow up, now do we? (At least not as a natural event, anyway http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif)

Rollo

Re: New PBW game: Ancient
 

Yes, anyplace in the data files that talks about chances or percentages is in tenths of a percent. I can't remember if I've ever seen a star explode in a game, but I have seen planets break up due to core instabilities, and warp points spontaneously collapse.

------------------
Cap'n Q

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
human mind to correlate all of its contents. We live on a placid
island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was
not meant that we should go far. -- HP Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu"

[This message has been edited by capnq (edited 31 July 2001).]

Re: New PBW game: Ancient
 

That's interesting. I've never seen a warp point collapse for natural reasons. But I have seen plenty of stars blow up. Had one in a multiplayer game that took out most of my ships and finished me off.

In a single player game once had my home star go nova after about 10 years. That was one of the best single player games I ever had. Got that message right away that the star was unstable and played the first part of the game under the gun trying to find a home for my population to move too before the planet went away.

Geo

Re: New PBW game: Ancient
 

URGENT MESSAGE TO ALL SENTIENT BEINGS WHO RECEIVE THIS TRANSMISSION

Without provocation or warning, the Borg Collective has obliterated two Hepcat colonies. Any other sentient beings, take extreme care when dealing with these beings. They have demonstrated a complete disdain for any living beings with the destruction of these two colonies. The Hepcats can only hope that our plight will serve as a warning to others to take the Borg threat as deathly serious.

END TRANSMISSION

OOC: God, I feel so embarrassed. This is what I get for working on infrastructure before defense....

Quikngruvn the Unready