OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

Are there any that still support floppy drives? I've got a CatWeasel mk4 to support.

I am on a budget.

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

Are there even regular sized (mircoatx) motherboards that don't have a floppy port?

The Ars system builder guide has recommendations for various types of motherboards, at different price levels. Of course, it all depends on what sort of CPU you have to go into the socket.. If its too old for the motherboard types in the current recommendations, check the archives for older guides

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

My new motherboard is, let me just check the invoice, a.....Gigabyte GA-M52S-S3P(Rev 2.0). I was told I could get a floppy drive but they're not standard. I don't know if the motherboard they gave me was dependent on not using a floppy drive.

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

...Given the $75 cost for the budget motherboard in the ars system guide, I can afford a new CPU, too.

Do both cores of the featured CPU go at 2.1GHz?

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

I feel I should mention I was told my old computer had blown and the capacitors were damaged. That's why they recommended a new system. I asked about just replacing the motherboard and they said all the other parts could be damaged.

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

...how would you tell?

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

I don't know. I could tell something was wrong because the fan sounded like a vacumn cleaner. Apaprently with broken capacitors it was working overtime to deliver enough power.

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

If any capacitors are blown, they will be charred on the top.

Replacing the whole system without checking to see if individual parts are still fine is pretty wasteful..

"Do both cores of the featured CPU go at 2.1GHz? "

Each core on a general purpose CPU is more or less functionally identical.

You also want to see if the ram you have will work in a new potential motherboard, make sure it has enough slots for your expansion cards, make sure it has the right video card slot type, and check that there will be enough connectors for your hdds and optical drives.

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

It wasn't a real problem as I planned to buy a new computer anyway. I was just stringing out the old one for another month or two. It still works but is very loud and they said it could drop dead any day. My mother just wondered if someone we know could refurbish it as a second computer, well third, or something on the cheap.

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

Pfah. Loud just means a $2 fan is getting old.
Listen for which one and replace it if you don't like the noise, or just wait until it stops and then replace it.

Electronics make no noise at all unless they're going "PZZZERT!"

"They" just want you to drop a thousand bucks in their laps.

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

I agree with Suicide Junkie. According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague), the symptoms of bad capacitors have nothing to do with a noisy fan.

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

Well, an increase in CPU temp would lead to an increase in fan speed, thus noise... but yeah, its right about the last thing on the list relating to blown capacitors.

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

Well they said the capacitors were leaking a chemical. If I had any idea what the capacitors were I could check. I am not a techie but I know someone who is. He would be the one to refurbish the computer if I had any idea it could just have something replaced (he lives in another state though and only visits). If he takes a look he'd easily tell me if it was the case or not. Not really worth the risk of being caught I'd think. We have pretty strict laws here about defrauding people. I don't know what it's like elsewhere.

It also was rattling, which they say is the Video card. They said because of it's design it couldn't be changed, which seemed odd to me. I always thought you could change video cards. I had no idea they got hard wired or something. I'm sure you all have something to say about that. anyway it was meaningless since I intended to get a new video card for a new computer.

I don't consider myself stupid. Naturally it occurred to me that it was suspicious, but I thought why bother. I told them I was buying a new computer in the future. If they had any intent to trick me they miss out on billing me to fix it, then selling me a new one later.

You'll have to excuse me, even face to face with someone I do not register friendly kidding or stuff. Maybe you mean to imply I was tricked or you're making cynical about sellers. I don't know.

I thought I had cleared up a problem whereby it would reboot itself randomnly, and I was wondering why the power supply flashed all night while the computer was turned off. Did I forget to mention that bit? There was also the mysterious increase in our power bill.

I thought about it and I don't feel I was fooled, but I could be wrong. There are maybe other aspects I can't think to mention. Anyway I feel less hurt that I could have been fooled than the insinuation that I am a fool. I don't know perhaps I am just overly sensitive.

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

I don't think anyone was putting you down Randall, they['re just suggesting that the diagnosis you've been given may be wrong.

Do you have a digital camera? Take some pics of the offending hardware and send them to your friend. Maybe the damage will be evident from a visual examination (but maybe not- gotta be worth a try though). Hell, post them here, we'll take a look.

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

I realised that, somewhat. I can find it difficult to understand humour sometimes so when I feel insulted I try to find out what's happening instead of getting angry. I have a friend who seemed to be jokingly blaming me for ruining everything for everyone last week. Now I didn't really care but the idea that he was trying to make me feel bad hurt more.

Actually I had the same thought earlier. I was looking at the inside of the old computer and I thought

"What I need to do is take a few photos and someone can tell me what's what"

I just took a few but I'm not very good with it and also my editing software is on the old HD waiting to get an external mount. Sure I could try to get a good picture or hunt down the disks but it's getting late. Thanks for the offer though.

of course I did fail to bring up the sparking system and reboots before.

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

I have a few concerns about the budget motherboard in the ars system guide: Link to stats

1) '4 x 240-pin DIMM, support max. 8GB DDR2 800/667/533 ECC and Non-ECC,un-buffered memory' - What is ECC and does this mean that memory speeds other than those listed won't work?

2) '6-channel Audio I/O' - This means what?

3) 'Integrated ATI Radeon X1250-based graphics' - From my own experience, integrated sound cards can be rather difficult to replace. The computer has a tendency to want to use the integrated card rather than the new one you plugged in. I imagine this problem may show up for graphics cards, too.

4) 'Maximum shared memory of 256 MB' - This means?...

5) 'Supports HDMI Technology with HDCP compliant with max. resolution 1920 x 1080p' - HDMI? HDCP?

6) '(It may not display 1080p smoothly when playing HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc due to current version player limit)' - That sounds like a rather vague problem. 'Current version player limit'?

7) 'Supports YPbPr component TV-out with max. resolutions 1280 x 720p and 1920 x 1080i' - Can someone decode that for me, please?

8) 'Supports DVI-D with max. resolution 2560x1600 (@ 60Hz)' - 'DVI-D'?

9) '1 x S/PDIF output connector' - The acronyms! They confuse!

10) 'Chassis Intrusion connector' - A rather vague and worrying name...

11) '1 x PCI Express x16
1 x PCI Express x1
2 x PCI' - Only 4 expansion slots? Plus, how do I know if my catweasel card will fit in any of them?

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

Randall, you could replace the capacitors, if you can get any. Most computer companies want you to buy all new stuff. My neighbor brought his laptop over and wanted to know if I could replace two keyboard keys. I called Dell for replacement keys and for 45 mins., talking to 5 different people I was told I had to buy the whole keyboard. The same will be true of the capacitors AND they would have to be matched to your system power requirements. There are only a hand full of people that know how to do that anymore (soldering it and actually finding the right one). Nowdays they just want to sell you the whole unit.

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

"1) '4 x 240-pin DIMM, support max. 8GB DDR2 800/667/533 ECC and Non-ECC,un-buffered memory' - What is ECC and does this mean that memory speeds other than those listed won't work?"

ECC has to do with error correction, and is generally only used in servers due to excessive cost. Don't worry about it. Also, don't bother with more than 4 GB physical ram unless you also plan to purchase Vista 64bit.

"2) '6-channel Audio I/O' - This means what?"

It means there are 6 ports on the back for audio; mic and line in, front and rear speaker, maybe a S/PDIF connector, a headphone jack. One of those might be an "aux" jack with configurable functionality, depending on who made the chipset.

"3) 'Integrated ATI Radeon X1250-based graphics' - From my own experience, integrated sound cards can be rather difficult to replace. The computer has a tendency to want to use the integrated card rather than the new one you plugged in. I imagine this problem may show up for graphics cards, too."

Such integrated chipsets are generally easily disabled in the BIOS. This is best done before booting into your OS after/before installing the discrete card.

Integrated sound cards, at least, have improved quite a bit in quality lately, and the one in this mobo will probably suit your needs.

"4) 'Maximum shared memory of 256 MB' - This means?..."

That is how much system ram the integrated video chipset can use. If you disable it and install a discrete card, it will be irrelevant.

"5) 'Supports HDMI Technology with HDCP compliant with max. resolution 1920 x 1080p' - HDMI? HDCP?"

That's the latest fad in the TV/Movie industry; HDMI is basically a combined DVI video cable and some sort of digital audio cable in one. HDCP has to do with the copy protection on Blu-ray and HD-DVD. You don't need to worry about these things unless you want to set the PC up to function as a media center.

"6) '(It may not display 1080p smoothly when playing HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc due to current version player limit)' - That sounds like a rather vague problem. 'Current version player limit'?"

Possibly an issue with the integrated radeon chipset.

"7) 'Supports YPbPr component TV-out with max. resolutions 1280 x 720p and 1920 x 1080i' - Can someone decode that for me, please?"

That is component video output, with three separate cables for different parts of the video signal. It allows higher quality output than the old composite (yellow cable on a VCR) out did. Also not relevant if you aren't setting up a media center.

"8) 'Supports DVI-D with max. resolution 2560x1600 (@ 60Hz)' - 'DVI-D'?"

I think that means dual link DVI; some higher end monitors have two DVI inputs, so they can display even larger resolutions over two cables from the video card.

"9) '1 x S/PDIF output connector' - The acronyms! They confuse!"

S/PDIF is a an optical cable used for digital audio transmission; unless you have a receiver and stereo speakers, you won't be using it.

"10) 'Chassis Intrusion connector' - A rather vague and worrying name..."

Some cases have a little circuit that will send a signal to the motherboard if the case is opened, presumably so the system can send you an email alert if someone opens your case while the system is on... Not really useful, but paranoia sells.

"11) '1 x PCI Express x16
1 x PCI Express x1
2 x PCI' - Only 4 expansion slots? Plus, how do I know if my catweasel card will fit in any of them?"

What does your catweasel card plug into now? I thought you mentioned something about floppy? If it uses an expansion slot, its almost certain to be PCI (I doubt you'd have any ISA slots http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif).

Cheaper motherboards generally feature fewer expansion slots; with all the integrated stuff these days (sound, lan, lots of sata ports, usb, firewire, etc., etc.), there is less need for 8 PCI slots, so they cut them out to save on costs.

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

10) 'Chassis Intrusion connector' - A rather vague and worrying name..."

Some cases have a little circuit that will send a signal to the motherboard if the case is opened, presumably so the system can send you an email alert if someone opens your case while the system is on... Not really useful, but paranoia sells.


I've seen that in action.
If you open the case, it beeps at you with a message on powerup until you clear it too. It would have to be battery powered.

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

Thanks muchly for all the help. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I'll have to figure out what the card plugs into...Wikipedia should help.


Hmm...Doesn't seem to have built-in floppy support?

How do I know if it'll fit my case, or would it be better to just buy a new case?

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

Look for a baby-sized IDE connector:
http://www.pcguide.com/byop/diagrams/figure91.jpg

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

That motherboard has a floppy connector on it. One accessory is:

1 x FDD cable

Kinda silly to put it in the box if there is no port to use it in. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

The thing about floppy is that they can't really get rid of it... One of the advertised features of SATA hdd chipsets is the ability to do software RAID. This RAID has to be configured before the OS is installed. Windows will ask during setup if you want to load 3rd party RAID drivers... from a floppy! So, they can't advertise the RAID capabilities of their motherboard unless they include a floppy connector. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

===

Motherboards are all standardized in size (or at worst, a smaller mobo will fit in the standard format for that size class, with the screw holes placed at the correct place). A microATX motherboard will fit in regular sized computer cases, as well as mid-towers and full-towers. If you feel you will need more expansion slots than are provided by the motherboard you linked to, you will probably need to get a full-sized ATX motherboard. With an ATX motherboard, you have to pay more attention to case size, since there are small cases that cannot hold ATX motherboards. Larger cases will hold them without problem though.

If you want to make sure, open up your case and measure the physical dimensions of your current motherboard. If it is around 244 mm × 244 mm, to a minimum of 171.45 mm x 171.45 mm in some cases, it is microATX. Full sized ATX is 305 mm × 244 mm.

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

Would that have two connectors?

(I'd post more, but my brain is fried. Wonky sleep schedule)

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

I'm not sure what your latest question is referring to. Floppy connectors? ATX motherboard?

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

Most older boards have two IDE connectors (floppy and HD). The new ones only have one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif I'm pretty sure that's what your question was referring to)

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

Most older boards had two IDE connectors and a floppy connector. Newer ones tend to have one IDE connector and one floppy connector, and a slew of SATA connectors.

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

Sorry, that was kinda vague.

The floppy connector - Would it have two plug-ins for two floppy drives?


Looks like this motherboard will work good. Have to take a look at my old one, though - Think I may have an AGP card.

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

No, there will be one connector on the motherboard, and the cable itself will have three ends. (Two at the ends of the cable and one in the middle)

One floppy drive per computer is usually enough though.

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

Uh...So, no, the cable will only have one plug-in for a floppy drive, but it has three ends to it?

There's a program that can read amiga disks in an ibm floppy drive, but it requires two floppy drives.

The Catweasel can do the same with one drive and more accuratly, but it doesn't have the iterative ability of the program to build on previous success.

Oh, you mean there's one connector on the motherboard and the cable has two connections. Yeah, that's pretty much what I wanted to know, thanks.

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

Narf, think of the cable as a sort of splitter. You had to desiginate "master" and "slave" drives when using those cables. So one end went into the mobo and the other two went into the drives.

Old mobos had two types. The standard or desktop had one IDE floppy and one IDE controller and the "tower" had an enhanced IDE (not sure about the name) which gave you a floppy and two HD IDE connectors. With the standard you could hook up one floppy and one HD or two using the splitter.
The enhanced wouls allow you a floppy and up to 4 HD's.

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

Just for clarification: I know how the cable works. It's just that the way SJ wrote his answer, it sounded like he was saying the cable only had one plug-in.

It didn't help that I mistakenly put 'connector' when I meant 'cable', nor did it help that I'm unfamiliar with motherboard statistics terminology.

The other information, however, is new to me.

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

Thanks for all the great answers. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I think I'm about ready to buy.

A few questions, though: I have a 6600GT AGP card, which means I'd have to replace it. The system guide recommends the 'Sapphire Radeon HD 3850' - Is this a good replacement?

Second, what's the difference between the various PCI slots?

Third, what's a good place to buy these from in Canada? Rough math says this'll cost $410+ (Motherboard, processor, graphics card, case), so I want to keep that down.

Fourth, how would I tell if my old power supply would be enough for the new stuff?

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

Hmm...May not need a new case. The 'form factor' looks to be the same.

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

I haven't bought much stuff from them, just some RAM (and that was ~2 years ago), but www.tigerdirect.ca was quite satisfactory when I dealt with them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I'm sure there are others out there, but TigerDirect is the only one I've personally bought stuff from.

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

Thanks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

If I can get the power supply question answered quickly, I may be able to order the stuff today.

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

Narf, the AGP and PCI use different slots (that may not be true in the older style computers) . Check to make sure which one you will need to use. I know the PCI and PCI-E are very different. I have a newer mobo that has an AGP slot on it and will not take PCI board.

Just a "Heads Up!" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

AGP and PCI are totally separate slots in any style of computer. Before AGP, video cards were made to go into PCI slots, though.

"A few questions, though: I have a 6600GT AGP card, which means I'd have to replace it. The system guide recommends the 'Sapphire Radeon HD 3850' - Is this a good replacement?"

Personally, I'd shy away from any ATI video card.

"Second, what's the difference between the various PCI slots?"

Night and day. PCI-E is the new standard slot type, with lots of scalability built into the spec. Its meant to completely replace both PCI and AGP. Cards that need a lot of bandwidth (video cards, physics co-processors) will use the full 16 lanes of a PCI-E x16 slot, and low bandwidth cards (pretty much everything you'd use PCI for in the past) can use the lower profile, more efficient PCI-E x1 slots. The best part is that you can stick a PCI-E x1 card into a PCI-E x16 slot, and it will work perfectly. They also designed the spec to allow for bus bandwidth increases, and still maintain full backwards and forwards compatibility between devices and motherboards. Hopefully the industry will never have to change slots again (at least, until real computers start taking up 1 inch cubes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif).

Most motherboards still sport a few PCI slots for backwards-compatibility purposes.

"Fourth, how would I tell if my old power supply would be enough for the new stuff?"

Plug it in, put the system under load, and see if its stable. If the components draw too much juice, the motherboard will shut off.

You could also try to figure out the power draw of all of the components and compare it to what the PSU is rated to put out. Just keep in mind that you should never run a PSU near or at max load, since the power output isn't very clean at that point (PSUs aren't really designed to deliver max load on a constant basis). How much power can your current PSU supply?

====

Another thing to keep in mind is that you might not be able to use your current RAM, depending on how old your PC is. Unless you have DDR2 RAM already, you will probably need to pick some up. Luckily, it's dirt cheap right now, with rebates offered out the wazoo (at least in the US, not sure about Canadian market).

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

1) What would be a good card, then? (In the same price range)

2) Thanks - So I should get a video card that fits in a PCI-E x16 slot?

4) 500 wats.

=====

I think it is DDR2. How do I tell?

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

1) According to the Ars system guide, the 8800GT 256MB seems to be the closest Nvidia cost/performance competitor in that price range. The 8800GT 512MB would possibly be a better long-term investment, for about $80-100 more. The Geforce 9 series cards are coming out soon, so it might be best to hold off on a video card purchase until they are out. The 8 series cards should see price drops at that time. The integrated video on the motherboard you linked won't be ideal for playing newer games, but it will be fine for older games and SE.

2) Yes.

4) 500 watts is overkill for pretty much any PC that doesn't have a SLI video card config, so you will be fine.

As for RAM's type, one way to tell is to look up the spec sheet of your current motherboard (any given motherboard can generally only use one type of RAM, with occasional boards sporting some legacy slots of the previous generation). If you run the "msinfo32" application, you can see what your motherboard is under the first page (system summary). It will be called something like "System Model."

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

Fyrons right about the video card. I have a 8800 Nvidia with 768MB, it rocks! Go with the overkill on the power supply. A lot of the artiicles I've read while I was putting my system together was that with all the power usage of cooling fans and DVD-CD Burners plus any other toys you may want to put on. It was mentioned over and over about having a good power supply to handle it all. I have an 800w power supply on mine.

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

800W is overkill for non-SLI systems. With the recent trends towards sane power management in the CPU and other components, modern systems don't actually generate quite as much heat, and fans don't generally have to work as hard. 450-500W is more than most systems will ever need. The 350W one in the Ars budget box config is a bit skimpy, though. The manufacturer's reputation for build quality is the most important thing, rather than raw wattage.

Re: OT: I need a new motherboard.
 

It uses DDR. So I'll be buying a motherboard, processor and ram shortly (Today).

I'll have it by friday.