General Dominions 3 comparison...
 

Hi all,

How would you compare the strategy and depth of this game to say, CIV 4 or GalCiv2? I'm trying to get a friend who enjoys strategy games to give this one a shot. I'm not very familiar with CIV4 and GalCiv2 but those are his main games.

Regards

Re: General Dominions 3 comparison...
 

It's more of a wargame and/or board game than a 4X, which you seem to be looking to compare. I'm pretty confident in saying it's like nothing you've ever played in terms of complexity and depth. People are still trying to figure out how to beat each other consistently. If you can get over the UI and learning curve (and any hardcore strategy gamer will), you'll find plenty of gaming goodness. It's by far the most-played multiplayer game in my gaming history.

Re: General Dominions 3 comparison...
 

You know my friend plays civ4 also. He always keeps saying how civ4 is much better than dom3 (wich is untolerable). He always says about how cool it is in civ that the time keeps going to future. I generally think, having played civ4, not much tough, that in civ4 if you play it enough the games tend to be all pretty much the same. In dom every nation has it own troops, own strenghts and own weaknesses. Every strategy has a counter strategy, and pretty much everything can happen. There are countless of maps and mods to make the games very different and interesting. Also the super combatants and other rpg stuff makes the world of dom a fantasy wich is, in my opinion, better than the civ4 world wich is a bit more historic.
I must say that I havent played civ4 lot cause I got bored pretty quickly and so may not be the best judge (and plus I never were good at civ4 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif)

Re: General Dominions 3 comparison...
 

I think Civ4 and GalCiv2 are excellent games, which I have played alot.

However, Dom 3 is better, it has far more strategy and depth than either of those. Well basic playing mechanics stays the same, different nations can have completely different strategies.

Civ 4 90%/100%
Gal Civ 2 95%/100%
Dom 3 99%/100%

Re: General Dominions 3 comparison...
 

Drudge:

In terms of tactics, depth and so on Civ4 is like bike while Dom3 is a car. You really cannot compare both of them. Civ4 is for people that think they like strategies. Dominions is for people that really love them.

Re: General Dominions 3 comparison...
 

If he enjoys playing CIV_4, he will enjoy playing Dominions_3.

Re: General Dominions 3 comparison...
 

I love Civ 4 and loved galciv. Nowadays, I play Civ 4 and Dom 3 almost exclusively (with some NetHack in between).
Galciv shone with its great ai. Dom 3 ai is totally dumb in comparison.

Depending on what your friend is looking for, the game has great strengths and some weaknesses:
-Dom 3 has enormous strategic depth, far more than Civ 4 and Galciv 2.
-It's just the best mp game that I know.
-There is no turn where you just push 'end turn' or long phases of waiting to get tech X before you can start doing something. There's always something interesting to do each turn. You're not waiting one more turn because something cool will be built/happen next turn. You already had tons of cool stuff happen this turn.
-You can customize your heroes with items in a way that's much more fun than Galciv 2's ship design.
-God customisation is way way richer than your race customisation in Galciv 2 or Civ 4's traits and unique units/buildings.

However
-The ai is poor.
-Beating the ai doesn't help you much when you start playing mp.
-It takes a lot of time learning the ropes of the game.
-The user interface may repel many.

As Morkilus said, Dom 3 isn't about building stuff. There are only temples and labs, though site searching has some similarities with buildings in civ (compare a +25%gold market in civ to +gold sites for example).
Also, you have to balance the use of your mages (researching, site searching, forging, fighting), and that the scarcity of mages means you'll have to build forts and labs to get more of them, which requires some strategic thinking.

Re: General Dominions 3 comparison...
 

One thing I don't think has been said is the combat. GalCiv and Civ 4 have absolutely NOTHING on the combat model. Who cares about a simple stack of spearmen duking it out for a city compared to watching hundreds of lamias, zombies, werewolves, and horrors, each in squads placed meticulously clash and burn in a torrent of magefire while summoned imps and elementals ravage the rear guard? And to think that the combat model would fit well into a fantasy RPG. It's a beautiful work of art, all in a game.

Re: General Dominions 3 comparison...
 

Comparing Civ games to Dom 3 is like comparing a swimming pool to an ocean. You can have fun in both, but you're very aware of the bottom/edges in the pool. In Dom 3, you choose how far out you want to go.

Re: General Dominions 3 comparison...
 

Saulot hit the nail on the head. This is the deepest game I have ever seen. And the most fun. The game has been very stable for me, in terms of crashes and freezes, also. I've not had one crash/freeze and have been playing for over a year.

But my opponents all tell me you'd never know I've been playing that long.

8^)

Re: General Dominions 3 comparison...
 

Just after say that there are no serious or even semi-serious bugs in Dom3, that interfere with playing the game. The bug list looks big but its all very, very minor stuff, its only because of Edi's hard work that the majority players probably even know about them.

I have played 18 months and Dom3 as never crashed or froze either. Its very, very stable.

Re: General Dominions 3 comparison...
 

I will have to agree. The only other kind of games I spent so much time on was MMO's.

As for strategy games, this is by far the most I have ever played one game, and for most of it I played almost all singer player. I have just started MP again and its a great experience. Even when I take over games and LOSE I learn great stuff and really enjoy myself. Lets be honest, I have only lost online so far and I still have a great time.

Once you make the leap you are never coming back. This is also one of the only games I can keep playing MP once im in Japan (hurray for international jobs.)

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New Galciv expansion coming out in March, btw. Looks to be a biggie, and the last one was very good.

Now... if they only had multiplayer. Still, a great game, and the best AI I have ever seen, and it keeps getting smarter.

But 75% of my gaming time is still spent with Dom3. It's such an awesome game.

Re: General Dominions 3 comparison...
 

Not to mention that Dom3 is freaking easy to mod. Sure, Civ4 is more modable(at least from what I heard) but you can easily create new nations, spells, items etc. in Dom3 in very short time. Right now I'm working on a nation of dark elves(maybe I'll post it here someday:)

Re: General Dominions 3 comparison...
 

You can play CIV without thinking. You won’t win all the time or do that well, but you can do it. It is a pretty simplified version of the world we know and it is not that deep.

You MUST think playing Dom. You simply can not play without applying your brain to the game. It is very deep, makes magic and fantasy “real” and does not use the same laws of nature we use. You will be challenged by the game.

I happen to think this is a good thing, but you have to make your own mind up. Sorry, more thinking!

Re: General Dominions 3 comparison...
 

Warhammer dark elves, or d and d drow, or something else, theenemy?

Re: General Dominions 3 comparison...
 

Yea, I was thinking of a "drow" nation. It's gonna be a nation of drow who awakenend three vampire lords and are now their slaves. In LA they will break free from the vampires and evolve in another direction.

Re: General Dominions 3 comparison...
 

I play all 3 regularly, and definitely from a SP perspective I think your friend would enjoy Dom3 as a strategy title. However, there are some differences as Dom3 isn't a 4X game like Civ or GalCiv.

IMO some quick Dom3/GalCiv/Civ SP comparisons:

SP gameplay in Dom3 is the weaker of the three, still fun but not as challenging after the initial early game 'hump'.

Dom3's AI is just horrible, even when set on Impossible. It isn't in the same league as the others. Dom3 is touted as being easy to Mod and I checked into it briefly, but with a full-time job/family, my free-time is spent playing not modding the AI. I asked for examples awhile ago but received no response so I guess nobody has bothered. The Better Independents Mod helps the AI a little.

The UI in Dom3 could be a lot better! It can get tedious hunting/keeping track of all your troops/leaders.

Graphically it was probably not cutting edge 10 years ago and is a distant 3rd here.

So what's the allure then after the less than positive points above? Well Dom3 has strategy and lots of it. Whether from the initial Pretender design, the magic research paths, the Army composition for enemy 'X' or scripting/equiping your Leaders, the game offers many distinct and workable strategies for each of several playable nations in three different 'Ages'. (I only wish it offered compelling and challenging gameplay to go with it!)

So your friend can't go wrong really with Dom3, especially if he/she plays MP. It is a worthwhile purchase.

Re: General Dominions 3 comparison...
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif Have you looked in the Mods & Maps forum? Check out the modlist! There are heaps of exceptionally good mods there. Modding in Dom3 has really been thriving.

I can't really comment on SP (since I never play it), but there is certainly no shortage of gameplay in MP.

Re: General Dominions 3 comparison...
 

Well, I've only recently started playing myself though I've had the game for awhile. But I'm pretty much as new as they come. I'm still on my first game with the AI. Kind of disappointing to hear about the AI or the lack thereof but, oh well. My friend may not be interested then as he prefers single player. I may also pickup CIV 4 myself for a good single player challenge then too.

As far as multiplayer goes, how and what do most people play? Is there a good population playing multi where it wouldn't be hard to find a game? I'm married with kids so it's not really always convenient for me to sit down hours at a time in a multiplayer game. Therefore I do have the need for a good singleplayer strategy game as well.

Regards

Re: General Dominions 3 comparison...
 

For all the complaints about the AI, it's not really that bad.
It can easily make for a challenging early game, especially on crowded maps. There are some mods that help, mostly by changing the independent troops. Mostly it doesn't handle SCs and thugs well, either building them or defending against them.
Late game gets very complicated and you really need an overall strategy which the AI doesn't have. And the ability to change that strategy to cope with changing opponents.

As for multiplayer, it generally breaks down into 2 types: blitzes, which are played in one sitting for hours at a time . And the regular MP games which usually start at one turn per day and slow even further down later in the game. Early turns only take a few minutes, later ones may take hours of planning. You can do your turn whenever you have time and submit it to the host which usually runs the turn when everyone's ready or at the deadline.

There are usually a dozen or more games running at a time over on the Multiplayer page.

Re: General Dominions 3 comparison...
 

Checking the six posts he has posted here, he posted in the "AI pretender design is insane" thread about help with designing maps that give AI predefined pretender or scales.

SemiRandom, a third-party tool, can create better pretenders for AI IIRC. It doesn't change actual AI, it just changes stuff in the map.
Also, if you're still interested in doing it yourself, the commands in question are in mapediting, not modding, pdf. Points 5.13 to 5.15 set pretender type, dominion strength and scales, and 6.5 to 6.11 can be used to give the pretender magic, experience, units, bodyguards, magic items etc. It seems the mapedit manual hasn't been upgraded in patches, so it doesn't list nation numbers of nations added in patches.

Re: General Dominions 3 comparison...
 

I don't think the Dominions 3 AI is that bad. The AI in GC2 has significant weaknesses. When is the last time you captured a planet in GC2 and said, "Wow, the computer is really smart for building 7 embassies and a farm."

The difference between GC2 and Dom3 is that you can set the GC2 AI above Intelligent and it cheats by getting huge resource bonuses. But if you play GC2 with opponents set to Intelligent, (max AI routines, no economic bonus) you can win without thinking too hard.

Besides, the player strategy in GC2 is inevitably some combination of "all factory", "all lab", or "all econ". Every game pretty much plays out the same because the ideal economic strategy is pretty well defined.

There is a certain appeal in playing a game in which you have familiarity, but I feel like Dominions 3 is stronger for the fact that every situation feels unique. Even when playing the same nation twice, the strategy varies greatly depending on your nearest neighbors, random magic sites and indy mages, etc. Deeper strategy, less repetition.

Re: General Dominions 3 comparison...
 

I'm not following. How is Dom3 different? Set Dom3 AI above normal and it cheats, leave it on normal and you can win without thinking too hard.

Besides which Galciv's AI is far better.

Re: General Dominions 3 comparison...
 

The extra design points are not the equivalent of the bonuses the AI gets in GC2. Dominions 3 has a hard cap on bonuses, for instance you can never take Order 7 and Growth 5. So the "cheating" that the Dom3 AI gets does not significantly increase the difficulty in the way GC2's AI does. If you gave the Dom3 AI an extra 5000g and a Wraith Lord every turn, that might approximate playing GC2 on Suicidal.

If you compare apples to oranges, the GC2 AI is better. This is because Dom3's AI doesn't scale up to the same level of difficulty. But if you compare apples to apples, that is GC2 on intelligent vs Dom3 on Normal, the two AIs are roughly equivalent.

GC2's AI is only good at certain things. When you give it an unlimited cash stream and huge production bonuses it can buy buildings and produce ships very well. But it can't build planets intelligently, its diplomacy model is easily exploitable, etc. Dom3 is the same way, it's very weak in certain areas; SCs and magic. I don't think GC2's AI is significantly better, I think GC2 is a less complicated game. Therefore the AI is more capable of playing it.

Re: General Dominions 3 comparison...
 

The Dom3 AI isn't that great, but for the first couple of dozens of hours you won't notice it because you'll be too busy getting stomped by it while you are trying to figure out which strategies work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif
I think a lot of people forget that Dom3 has a pretty steep and long learning curve, so even though when you are at the top of it, you look down at the AI with contempt and can barely spot him ("He looks like an ant from here!"), you did climb a very long way to get there, and were looked down upon by the AI for quite some time.

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Or just try playing without the things the AI just can't handle: uber-bless strategies and SCs.

Fighting multiple impossible AIs with regular national troops backed up by artillery and buff mages is still hard for me.
(Of course, I may just suck)

Some of the AI nations will make really bad pretender design choices and implode, but other AIs will benefit from that as well as you.

Re: General Dominions 3 comparison...
 

The AI in dominions cheat on higher difficulty levels. On impossible it gets +100% gold and resources.

Also a third thing the AI can't handle is province defence.