Your most magic-less game
 

Mine must be my current EA Ulm game. Glory of the Gods, some VP stuff, Indies 9, very difficult magic research. I simply...have...no usable mages. Or that much usable spells. E1 mages with some feeble random on top aren't very useful. Especialy without magma bolts. I have couple of Antlered Shamans backing my raiding groups armiees/with Panic. Apart from that, pretty much nothing. One or two of the groups had a shaman tossing that first berserk spell on some units. Even site searching has given exceptionaly dry results.

Re: Your most magic-less game
 

The problem with a hard research game designed to cut down on magic is that bless troops take over, along with a handful of effective SC pretenders (like PoD).

A game with very hard research, pretenders restricted max of 4 in a magic path and certain pretenders banned might be good fun.

I do sometimes turn on hard research for SP games though, where I don't use uber blesses or SCs.

Re: Your most magic-less game
 

I have to say, I almost never play with low magic teams, and I find the magic one of the most fun parts of the game. I don't think I've ever really had a magicless or low-magic game..

Re: Your most magic-less game
 

My suggestion would be:
* Very difficult research.
* 125% resources and supplies, 100% gold.
* All pretenders must be *dormant*, neither awake nor imprisoned.

Everyone would still go for a strong bless or a supercombatant, it is true, but that's okay if everyone knows that up front.

Re: Your most magic-less game
 

Doesn't it almost *kill* certain nations and certain strategies with no chance to defend themselves from double-blessed van (who takes the imprisoned pretender anyway) at least with PoD. I find Sombre's suggestion much more viable.

Re: Your most magic-less game
 

Except that AI can't do double blessed Vans, and I don't play Vanheim because I find the theme boring. I wanted this to be a thread about experiences with low-magic games, not another minmaxing thread.

Re: Your most magic-less game
 

As far as hard-research games go, would it help if starting dominion was limited to, say, max of 5? Hard to keep SCs inside own dominion, no awe, and for most nations recruitment of sacred unit was just cut in half. Some nations (Niefel) aren't going to be hurt that much because they can't recruit that many sacreds any way, but at least Niefel has harder time spreading the cold around.

Re: Your most magic-less game
 

I don't think that any of this helps hard-research games. I think it helps games in which you're trying to play dominions without using pretenders, blesses or magic.

A dormant SC can stop a blessed rush on a decent sized map. He shows up on turn 12 and he can appear with equipment.

At very-hard research, const 2 costs, what, 260 RP? That's easily achievable by turn 12 by Pythium (for example.)

The difference here is that you can't take a prince of death and have him leap on your opponent's face on turn 3 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Re: Your most magic-less game
 

I played a few games against the AI where I jacked up the difficulty of magic in every way imaginable.

Frankly, it wasn't very fun. The thing is, most nations have an extremely limited roster of troops, out of which 3/4 are probably useless anyways and there is really only one or two ways to set up your army to really make it effective.

And there's really no way to improve your troops aside from getting more of them... which is kind of lame.

Re: Your most magic-less game
 

Dominions on the difficult magic option is CIV without buildings.

Re: Your most magic-less game
 

I'm not really trying to play Dominions that way. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif It's just that I have been with the series since Dom 1 and now I think it's time for me to try some more unorthodox settings with the game. I've found some magic impaired games fun because at least in SP (don't know about MP, I don't really have patience for MP) it seems to make magic feel more significant. Since it's harder to get it, I can apreciate that Lightning Bolt, Bane Lord, Falling Fires, good items etc more. It's really just a psychological thing. I also use Indies 9 because it slows things down a bit. You'll also have to prioritize things more. I'm perfectly fine with blesses myself, it's one of the greatest things added into Dominions since it made the game and it's nations feel less generic. Maybe some of the most powerful blesseable units as of now could be summonables a la Lanka/Bandar/Mictlan/etc. Since I play SP, I go for thematic pretenders anyway, even though I often go for good blesses (F9, W9/N6 and so on), but I find the concept of a god with F9 W9 a bit too schizophernic for my tastes - not to mention when it's a god leading a norse nation. Which I don't play, because no matter how powerful Vanheim I find the norse themes pretty boring. Same with Pythium and Arco. Greeks & Romans are boring, in my opinion. I'm looking things at from a SP perspective because if I'd play MP I would find the minmaxing bothersome. Perhaps the rules you suggested would be good for MP.

This would have to be throughly tested. With slowed down research the essential buffs and items could be more difficult to get. A horde of quickened fire-weaponed glamour cavalry could be tough nut to crack, though I suppose you could do it with an SC by turn 12-14. Actualy, it could be fun to try to find an "optimal" designs for this. Dormant-hard research anti-bless SC designs.

Maybe the level 2 itself. Going from 0 to 1 in s 100 RP with very difficult research. Hmm. Well, maybe the level 2 could be 160 RP. I'm not 100% sure how the multiplier goes. It's certainly less problematic for Pythium and other magic heavy nations than say, oh, hmm, Fomoria.

That's true. Also, I think, with somewhat slowed pace of game (can't get those killer spells so fast, though blessables and such remain) bad sclaes could be potentialy more detrimental.

Re: Your most magic-less game
 

Inspired by this thread I started a SP very hard research game playing as LA Ulm. I set all the players up myself then turned them AI. It's been pretty interesting so far. Looking forward to getting some magic that will allow me to stave off the 4 AIs attacking me.

Re: Your most magic-less game
 

EDIT: Oops, I was assuming const 4 instead of const 2.

This is what Pythium can get on a dormant PoD with earth magic when he shows himself. The gem cost is huge, but - you're Pythium, you've got the gems:

* Fire Plate
- Between the plate and your high prot, the fire blessing can't hurt you.
* Ice Sword x 2
- Not ideal, but you depend on fear to make people run away.
* Horror Helmet (alchemized from 20 pearls if need be)
- even blessed high morale troops run from a PoD in this thing.
* Boots of Giant Strength or Behemonth
- Require alchemy and a turn of god time, may not even be worth the trouble.
* Ring of Tamed Lightning
* Pendant of Luck

In his own dominion, this guy runs through jaguar warriors, blessed van, all that jazz like a hot-knife-through-butter.

Raiding is still a huge issue - but you're Pythium. Time is on your side. And a few good guesses with the Prince can cut down on the enemy's supply of van very quickly.

Re: Your most magic-less game
 

Wouldn't a basic shield(or even two, although ice swords give nice defence) be better on the Prince with boots of the behemoth?

Re: Your most magic-less game
 

An eye shield works really well. I used the behemoth boots and an eye shield in Perpetuality on a PoD against huge hordes of Midgard shapeshifters. If it's a turn 12 pythium build though, that may not be an option. I think that's why DrP went with the 2 swords.

But I'd put an anti-missile ammy on the PoD instead of the lightning ring, unless you've found an air nation on your border.

Re: Your most magic-less game
 

I'm assuming Vanheim or MA Mictlan - therefore lightning bolts are a major concern. A bless rush from Marignon would obviously be better countered with the missile amulet - I'm not sure what you'd do against an Ermorian longdead cavalry rush. They disregard your awe which gets ugly very fast.

I believe that, even against Glamour troops, you are actually better off with the ice swords and boots of strength than with shields and boots of the behemoth. For one thing, you are only size 4, and you don't actually inflict much trample damage.

Re: Your most magic-less game
 

Vans could be ugly too. Min morale of 14 when blessed to counter the awe, plus a lance charge could hurt lots. If they've got an H2 for sermon of courage, it'll be even worse.

I ran into an indy barbarian province with an Awe pretender, thinking sweet thoughts of joy since they'll never be able to smack me, and for some reason they were commanded by an H2 indy priest spamming sermons, instead of the regular barb leaders. Got killed.

Edit Had a look at a Mictlan game I'm in too. In friendly dom, my jaguars warriors had 17 morale after bless, 19 after a sermon of courage. I don't think Awe's going to do much against that.