Some hints on LA R\'lyeh vs LA Ermor?
 

I Keep in a MP LA R'lyeh that is very strong versus about anything excluding Ermor. Some tactical hints?
Thanks.

Re: Some hints on LA R\'lyeh vs LA Ermor?
 

Well, I've had some success in SP with massive communions : starspawn priests as communion masters, starchildren as slaves. Add your freespawns as chaff and banish his chaff away (and smite anything bigger).

Re: Some hints on LA R\'lyeh vs LA Ermor?
 

Halancar is right about banishment, it scales rapidly in both area and damage with increased priest level. Zero fatigue is nice too, make sure your slaves come before the masters so they continue to cast too, and have a master cast Power of the Spheres. The penetration bonus comes at H3,H5,H7,H9, so 8 slaves makes your H2 Starspawn into H5s, for +2 penetration. With Power of the Spheres and 16 communicant slaves, you should do massive damage with effectively H7 banishments.

Early on, you can also fire away with Illithids, if he doesn't bring indies or ghouls to a battle you will kill the non-mindless commanders and the undead will pop.

Later, Solar Brilliance will do wonders against Ermor. Buff up some meteorite guards if you can to keep the caster from getting killed, it takes a while to do its job. Make some clams to bring along so you don't run out of pearls. Bring some chaff to soak up lances, or alternatively your own skelly spam will last long enough in the brilliance to do that.

Re: Some hints on LA R\'lyeh vs LA Ermor?
 

I tought communion raise only the astral level, not all magic levels. Good to know.

If i wipe off all his commanders the undead will rout in the middle of battle? I tought they eventually disappear only at the end of the battle.

Re: Some hints on LA R\'lyeh vs LA Ermor?
 

You can communion banishment?!? Oh, that is a lovely thing. This game just keeps showing off depth that is remarkable.

Re: Some hints on LA R\'lyeh vs LA Ermor?
 

If you kill/rout all his commanders, the thinking undead will rout as normal and the mindless undead will stop moving and start to die. They'll still attack if there's a target next to them, but otherwise they'll just stand there. Every round some of them will just die.

Re: Some hints on LA R\'lyeh vs LA Ermor?
 

... wonderful ...

Re: Some hints on LA R\'lyeh vs LA Ermor?
 

I just play LA Ermor in one of the MP games.
You guys make me scared http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

Re: Some hints on LA R\'lyeh vs LA Ermor?
 

R'lyeh has access to astral and water, letting even mundane commanders do some damage with Herald Lances (faster, with boots of quickness). Commander-killing rituals like Mind Hunt, or the ever-funky Dreams of R'lyeh (which doesn't have the feeblemind risk that Mind Hunt does, IIRC) are also accessible.

Some void summons will mind-blast; some others are good at stomping (Greater Othernesses are tramplers, for instance). And void summons are sacred, if you care for a bless. A Vastness not only has multiple mindblast attacks per turn, it also hits back at the mindless hordes via blood vengeance...

And if you last long enough, your dominion will spawn you many H3 priests due to insane cultists declaring themselves prophets.

Re: Some hints on LA R\'lyeh vs LA Ermor?
 

My vote, atleast as far as actual battles go, would be for communioned banishments and cleansing waters.

Re: Some hints on LA R\'lyeh vs LA Ermor?
 

Damn you for bringing this topic up, I stayed up three extra hours last night and am now a sleepy mess! I had lots of fun though…

A couple of things I noticed. Your chaff is weaker than their chaff. Those undead legionaries will run over your mad farmers. However, you do have access to body ethereal and luck. I suggest starting a way back and spreading your communioned low level S1 mages through your force, buffing the chaff. Hold and attack is the command. I know, it is not fashionable to buff chaff, but it will help them stand up long enough for your banishments to hurt Ermor. The point about insane prophets is a good one. Look for them and keep moving them to the front, that H3 really helps.

The other point already made, that your Illythids mind blast only troops with minds is well taken. It can be tough to find the cash to do it, but keep a fair number of these guys in your army. They are a good solution to those damn Lictors and will eventually work their way back to the commanders who keep raising more undead. This is how I usually killed off the commanders. Combined with heavy banishment and some chaff buffing and you can deal with the more normal armies you will face.

Of course, you are fighting a human, so they will have some special plans, but with the volume of chaff they have, they will send some of these armies against you, even if it is not their main plan. Given that they will beat your chaff armies one on one, you need to plan for it.

Another point. Since gold was tight, I was not spending on PD. However, putting a single gold in each province is wise, so you get a commander to help use your auto-summon chaff more effectively. It is a bargain and will fend off some small incursions. Nothing serious, but for the price, why not.

I had a tough time getting enough S1 troops together for a really powerful communion, but did find that even just a few made a difference on my prophet. The penetration bonus and increased area of effect was quite noticeable. Given they can also spam other spells while being slaves, it is a worthwhile effort. It is also a way to get fanaticism on a commander who is otherwise too low in H power. Granted, most of the madmen are unlikely to run, but it is occasionally nice to be sure that all your troops will stay for the entire fight. Ermor does tend to inspire fear and you can now easily counter it.

Please note that none of these ideas are particularly uber. I would love to hear some ideas of how to really power the nation up against another death dealing dominion nation. I did not finish my game and am having a hard time putting Ermor down. On the other side is C’tis, but I am sure their undead will rapidly fall once I figure out Ermor.

I found Vengeance of the Dead to be of no use, as the Ermor commanders don’t do the killing personally. I would like to assume that their commanders going insane is annoying them, but can not see the result. Since they have the same cash issue I have, I am focusing on keeping my temples standing and burning theirs. I can lose most provinces with no real loss, but the temples I really defend. They cost both of us relatively more than with normal nations and my dominion will hurt him, so I want to use it. With some stealthy preachers, courtesy of some Starchildren who went insane and declared themselves the prophet, I am currently preaching in their capital. A dominion kill is not out of the question. Also, keeping their dominion down reduces their chaff recruitment, which makes your life a bit easier.

I was just thinking, the Starchildren Assassins might be useful here. The Ermor commanders are critical to their nation. If you self buff with ethereal and luck, then mind blast, you might be able to beat skelly spamming commanders. Worth an experiment perhaps.

Re: Some hints on LA R\'lyeh vs LA Ermor?
 

Vengeance of the Dead won't help -- it doesn't work on undead.

As for Star Children as assassins -- they may luckily survive against Mound Kings, but I'd expect skellispamming (or Disintegrating...) Dusk Elders to kill 'em pretty easily. Better to keep 'em as communicants than to go solo after death mages.

Re: Some hints on LA R\'lyeh vs LA Ermor?
 

Good to know. Given how tight cash is, I won't risk them as assassins.

Does master enslave work on undead? Or at least undead commanders?

Re: Some hints on LA R\'lyeh vs LA Ermor?
 

"buffing the chaff"

Shhh! This is a family forum...

But I would like to see one of the nation modders take on a "mad farmer" nation. Please make Willie Nelson a national hero, and "Hold 'Farm Aid'" a national spell...

Re: Some hints on LA R\'lyeh vs LA Ermor?
 

My understanding is that ME works on everything, magical beings, undead, constructs.

Jazzepi

Re: Some hints on LA R\'lyeh vs LA Ermor?
 

Banishment's are of effect increases quadratically with holy level. Getting a level 9 holy priest would be murder against undead.

ME doesn't work against undead.

Re: Some hints on LA R\'lyeh vs LA Ermor?
 

R'lyeh also, if memory serves, has randomized access to death magic on illithid mages. A communion spamming Dust to Dust or Wither Bones is not a pretty sight for LA Ermor.

Re: Some hints on LA R\'lyeh vs LA Ermor?
 

Your memory serves you well and using Death magic against Ermor does have a certain ironic satisfaction, particularly after they Rigor Mortised my pretender worm into an early grave. Oddly, he died with E3 and came back with N2.

There is also a national hero with D and I suspect many people play with high luck and turmoil, so you may get him regularly. Given the cash problems I have been facing, the random events are all that keep me liquid, so they are very useful. That is another small tactic to note. Since you are going to kill off the population anyway, make sure to tax them heavily.

Re: Some hints on LA R\'lyeh vs LA Ermor?
 

I thought it did work on undead, but not on mindless beings, which unfortunately includes most of ermors chaff. Or am I wrong?

Re: Some hints on LA R\'lyeh vs LA Ermor?
 

I meant mindless units.

Re: Some hints on LA R\'lyeh vs LA Ermor?
 

Here is another tactic that my may wish to use. 20% of the cultists that you recruit or auto summon have astral and can join a communion. They also have holy. Banishment does not cause fatigue.

So, throw together 2, 4 or 8 of the cheap assassin mages and have them cast communion slave. Put all your S1H1 cultists in one army and have them cast communion master. They will get a boost to their Banishment, which will help you clean out the undead. You will really see the difference at 8, but even at 4, it makes a big difference. The extra penetration helps, but it is the area of effect that really sorts out the chaff.

Your other mages can cast what they like and not worry about a fatigue death.

You will get lucky as well and find that some of them gone insane for a turn and become prophets. With the H3 boosted up to H5 or H6, you can really hurt the undead and will even start damaging some of those with high MR.

I rename all the S1H1 units so they are easier to track. With all the insanity of this nation, you will have commanders misplace themselves, and you need to work tracking them.