Alexander - KARNOZA WINS!!
 

Game Settings:

Age: Late without R'lyeh or Ermor
Map: Alexander with late era scenario Link
Indies: 6
Magic sites: 45
Research: standard
Graphs: On
Renaming: On
Hall of Fame 15
Gold & resources: 100 each
Mods: None

Victory condition: Non-Cumulative Victory points. There are 36 victory point provinces (2 per nation) hand-placed on the map as evenly as possible (before nation assignments). No victory points are in a player capital or underwater. One must control 15 (approx. 40%) of the VP provinces to win.

Hosting schedule: Turns 1-15 daily; Turns 16 and later 3/week on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Sundays.

PLAYER LIST:
Abysia - Wokeye
Agartha - DryaUnda
Arco - Don Corazon
Atlantis - Don_Seba
Bogarus - Jurri
Caelum - Lolomo
C'Tis - Stelteck
Jomon - Aristander
Man - Aethyr
Marignon - Pasha
Mictlan - Ano, then taken over by Karnoza for the win!!
Midgard - Calmon
Pan - djo
Patala - Klagrok
Pythium - Baalz
Tien Chi - Drake49
Ulm - Dedas
Utgard - Baldr

[img]/threads/images/Graemlins/PointRight.gif[/img] [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/PointRight.gif[/img] Attached is the late era scenario for this game with the VP provinces added by hand. I endeavored to distribute the VP's evenly but also in provinces where usually a fort would make sense.

Re: Alexander - PBEM Game - Recruiting
 

I'm in, nations to follow

Re: Alexander - PBEM Game - Recruiting
 

Book me as well--oops ill pm you my choices http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/stupid.gif

Re: Alexander - PBEM Game - Recruiting
 

Nice map! I'm in.

Could we modify the victory condition and raise the 33% VP needed or at least make all of the VP provinces fortresses?

I played a game once with 40% VP (no capital) and the game has ended very soon because nations with teleport magic can jump into most of VP provinces and win (angels, bless commanders, etc).
And its a myth that most of people automacally build fortresses on the VP provinces (and not only newbs do this) and they are way to underprotected without!

Re: Alexander - PBEM Game - Recruiting
 

Count me in, please. Nations list is in PM.

Re: Alexander - PBEM Game - Recruiting
 

Hi Calmon:

As a general rule, I try to set things up so that games are likely to end between turn 65 - 90. If other players think the % should be a bit higher, then maybe I'll change it. My hope is by having 36 VP provinces (compared to only 18) that it will be a bit harder to do the old teleport trick.

Pasha

Re: Alexander - PBEM Game - Recruiting
 

I would be fine with 33% when we use a rule like "you have to keep the provinces for 3 linked full turns" before it counts as a vicotry.

Well but this condition would need a manual process http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Alexander - PBEM Game - Recruiting
 

I definitely agree with Calmon. Such rule would be good and it can be easily traced using score graphs. Game victory condition may be whatever and the winner will be declared by the host who traces the graph.

Re: Alexander - PBEM Game - Recruiting
 

My choices are as follows:
1. Bogarus
2. C'tis
3. Ulm
4. Jomon
5. Pan

Re: Alexander - PBEM Game - Recruiting
 

I would join here if I wasn't starting newbie game on that map. Damn, I wish I had time to play that game too.

Re: Alexander - PBEM Game - Recruiting
 

I'm in. My list is
1.Arcoscephale
2.T'ien Ch'i
3.Mictlan
4.Vattihiem if that is available
5.Marignon.

Re: Alexander - PBEM Game - Recruiting
 

I would like in, if there are any slots left. I am not a newbie - I just used to get games on a different forum.

I will send my list to PashaDawg.

Re: Alexander - PBEM Game - Recruiting
 

I'd prefer keeping the original victory condition, with only the percentage changing if people want. "Keep and hold 3 turns" is a recipe for a too-long game. Now that we've all read this thread, we should all know to fortify the VPs and prevent sneak attack surprise wins.

Re: Alexander - PBEM Game - Recruiting
 

You can count me in. I will PM my choices.

I have been wanting to do this for awhile

Re: Alexander - PBEM Game - Recruiting
 

I'm with Djo.

Re: Alexander - PBEM Game - Recruiting
 

Now that I think about it non-forted VPs make me a sad panda, I'm gonna go ahead and take a pass on the game. Thanks for the invite though.

Re: Alexander - PBEM Game - Recruiting
 

I don't think anyone is saying that fortifying VPs would be either forbidden or mandatory, just that you have to know that if you don't fortify, it increases the risk of the game suddenly, unexpectedly ending.

Full House
 

Ok. All of the game slots are full. The next step is to assign players (and for me to tweak the scenario to add the VP provinces, which I will do before I know what nation I am playing).

If you have not sent me 5 choices, please do so.

Please send me an email, if I don't already have your email address. My email is pashadawg [at] gmail *dot* com Please include "Alexander" in the subject line for my email filter.

Pasha

Victory Condition
 

I am reluctant to have a victory condition that requires players to count turns, etc. We could tweak the % necessary to win, maybe to 40%.

We could also explore whether cumulative VP's would be good (although, it is tricky to figure out the right # for cumulative VP's, at least for me with my terrible math skills). We could also have no VP's and strictly require a certain % of total provinces (but I like VP's).

Let's wait until Tuesday night (Boston time) before making the final decision on the victory condition, so players can discuss further. (And, we should not stray too far from the original proposed VP condition.)

Pasha

Re: Victory Condition
 

If a province with VP has a fort that VP is inside the fort or just inside the province?

Re: Victory Condition
 

You have to take over the fort to get the VP. Thus, it is important for wise players to build forts on their VP provinces.

Re: Victory Condition
 

I'm with Pasha, counting turns is a hassle. The original proposal sounds plenty challenging to me, and I don't see a problem in players snatching wins with teleporters or whatnot. In fact, I like the additional logistical challenge where you don't have anything for granted and need to seriously weigh whether to invest in defense or in offense: with capital VPs, you already have lots of mages and a strong fort to defend your VP.

Cumulative VPs would be fun, but it would be quite the hassle to switch to that at this point given that I understand a lot of players don't like them and might jump ship.

In general, I prefer games that have clearly defined and moderately easy to achieve victory conditions. That way they won't drag too long into the boring and time-intensive endgame.

Re: Victory Condition
 

Ok, if we stay with only 12 VP i'll pass in joining this.

I mean this is just too fast for most of nations and so its nothing more than a gamble for a super fast nation.

Re: Victory Condition
 

How many turns' length game do you consider "too fast"?

Re: Victory Condition
 

I don't think it last till turn 50 and there is a good chance for not seeing the imprisoned pretenders (~36 turns).

Re: Victory Condition
 

Obviously, this is a matter of taste, Calmon, and it would be great if you played. What if the setting was 14 VP provs? Would that still be too fast? After all, even 33% would mean that a player would essentially need to control 1/3 of the map in order to win.

Re: Victory Condition
 

You don't need to control 33% of the map to get 33% of the VPs and thats the main problem i have. For example nations like caelum (fly) the midgard (stealth) can easily jump deep in enemy lands and surpise attack the VP provinces (Sure you still need a good early game).

And like i said before you don't get any special bonus to fortify your low pop VP provinces and even i do it i'm sure many other don't. I've my experiences with this: http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...art=1&vc=1
At the end only a few provinces were protected by fortresses and the winner got ~60% VPs at the end (40% was needed) and all this in 1 single turn. He had only a fraction (2 or 3 VPs) of this a turn before. He won with a massive angel teleport attack. Without some special nation features you're more an oberserver in such a game.

Thats why i dislike non-capital-VP games and maybe i should have think about before joining but to my defence i asked to change the victory condition http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.

What do you think about 40% province ownership as win condition?

Re: Victory Condition
 

I read the end of that thread, very interesting. (Side note: I like reading about people's tactics after the end of games, since I rarely survive to the end game myself.)

I would be happy to play with either the original VP condition or some % of provinces (30-40% range). If we stick with VPs, though, everyone should be aware that the surprise win has to be defended against.

Re: Victory Condition
 

Ok. I think 40% is fine. That would be 15 VP provinces to win. Unless a player has strong concerns with that, let's use that victory condition.

Re: Victory Condition
 

I have updated the scenario file to add the VP's. It is attached to the first post in this thread. While I think the VP placement is satisfactory, if anyone thinks any are wildly unfair, please let me know.

Pasha

Re: Victory Condition
 

I think I am just waiting on Aristander, Calmon and Dedas for nation choices.

Please get me your choices by Wednesday.

Re: Victory Condition
 

Ahem, Calmon's saying that he'd prefer 40% of provinces, not VPs. Me, I don't like victory conditions based on provinces, since you can't protect your provinces by building forts the way you can your VPs. So a province-based victory condition is even more vulnerable to sneaky/flying/teleport/remote summon attacks, with no feasible counters available.

Also, 40% of Alexander is, what, 116 provinces? Even with a rather handsome 30-province grab at the end you'd need to run an empire of 60+ provinces for who knows how many turns... Not something I think is fun. Victory Points are great in that you can capture the necessary points in a much shorter time-frame (even without any sneaky teleport-grabs) and thus can ideally skip the mind-numbing end game shuffle.

Re: Victory Condition
 

40% of VPs sounds good. Lets do it.

Re: Victory Condition
 

Ok. We'll use the 40% VP victory condition. That will be 15 VP's to win (up from 12). I have placed the VP's on the scenario. None of them are in underwater.

Pasha

Re: Victory Condition
 

Hey, did someone leave? If yes, can I join? I can have nation list quick, just say...

Re: Victory Condition
 

This is getting so exciting! Can't wait to be crushed and get some more experience. I know some of you are eager to share... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Victory Condition
 

I'm still in and sent my nations nikolai so i think there isn't a free slot.

Re: Victory Condition
 

Sorry. No free slots.

Nations
 

Hello:

I am looking forward to this game! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Here are the nation assignments:

Abysia - Wokeye
Agartha - DryaUnda
Arco - Don Corazon
Atlantis - Don_Seba
Bogarus - Jurri
Caelum - Lolomo
C'Tis - Stelteck
Jomon - Aristander
Man - Aethyr
Marignon - Pasha
Mictlan - Ano
Midgard - Calmon
Pan - djo
Patala - Klagrok
Pythium - Baalz
Tien Chi - Drake49
Ulm - Dedas
Utgard - Baldr

I'd like to get the game started on Sunday night. Please email me your pretender files by Sunday afternoon.

Please password protect your pretenders, because sometimes I accidentally hit the wrong nation when trying to play my own turn. If your turn is not password protected, then it opens up, and I have to try to close it without seeing anything that matters. I will have a master password that will allow me to turn a player AI or assign a replacement player if someone disappears.

Don't forget that we are not using any mods for this game.

Please always include "Alexander" in the subject line of all emails to me about this game. I use an email filter, and it helps me notice player turns, etc.

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Thanks.

Pasha

Re: Nations
 

Oh no. Poor me... locked out of the game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: Nations
 

Sorry, Ironhawk. How rude of me to organize the game (and send you an email about it) while you were on vacation. Thoughtless and rude! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/stupid.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/heart.gif [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Panda.gif[/img]

I hope you'll play next time (but I think you prefer CBM to Vanilla anyway).

Re: Nations
 

Hah, everyone wants to play in your games, Pasha! (Well, except for Micah http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif )

Looking forward to a fun game, all!

Re: Nations
 

No Pasha, I'm afraid there can be no forgiveness for this one... Only War!!

[img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif[/img][img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif[/img][img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif[/img][img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif[/img][img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif[/img][img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif[/img][img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif[/img][img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif[/img][img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif[/img][img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif[/img][img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif[/img][img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif[/img][img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif[/img]

Re: Nations
 

Attached to this post you will find the map with all the capitals and VPs marked (1.2M png).

Re: Nations
 

Nice, djo! Thanks for doing that. It looks quite nice.

Pasha

Re: Nations
 

This game will soon be rolling right?

Re: Nations
 

Yep! It will be rolling tonight (Boston time).

Pasha

Send Pretenders
 

I have not received pretenders from:

Agartha (DryaUnda)
Arco (Don Corazon)
Midgard (Calmon)

Thanks.

Pasha

Re: Send Pretenders
 

Hey Pasha what time EST??? Or are you waiting for the 3 no shows until you begin??

Re: Send Pretenders
 

It is 7:37 EST

PashaDawg normally gives people until 9 pm EST