\'tribal\' inspired nation
 

Why is their no tribal/native/indigenous animistic inspired nation?

Mictlan may be the closest thing, but they are obviously based on the advanced horticultural societies of S. and C. America. Gods of this time were beginning to move into the temples.

LA Atlantis also begins to touch upon a native type society, the Inuits. But they were a cold clime-maritime culture that required more rationalization of life than fits with a purely animistic culture.

There is no truly animistic culture represented among the Dom3 nations. One that would have a hunter/gather subsistence mode. There is _no way_ such a nation, in real life, could compete; which may lead to the ignoring of this flavor of cultural inspiration. But this is a _fantasy_ game after all; and besides Inuit/Northern American/Northern East Asian (LA Atlantis) weren't exactly doing any type of 4X activity.

I'd like to see an animistic culture; based perhaps off of Triobrand, New Guinea, or another S. Pacific Islander.

D&D released a 'barbarians handbook' with such an Islander inspired savage that used mostly crude daggers and spears, but had the ability to infuse their weapons with magic (by burying them in the sand for a period of time, no less). No missle weapons besides maybe the 'harpoon' or 'throwable spear', since nothing like a bow or sling would ever be required on a small island environment. Totem animals were octopi, lobster, or shallow water/coral reef inhabitants. A required coastal province starting position would be appropriate too. Water and nature magic, possible astral. Early age probably best time period.

Idiosyncrasies of Jungle tribes like Yanomamo are already touched upon by Mictlan. Temperate climate tribes like native N. Americans are a possibility, but their image has already been too distorted by popular culture and encroachment; there is to much temptation to give them 'horse tribe' type cavalry, when in fact they naturally never had such a thing.

Islander or native animistic African tribes seems like the best option for developing a mod nation like this.

With a bit of research and imagination, a great mod nation could be developed that touches upon a completely ignored, within Dom3 (and in real life too, to be honest) part of the human historical situation

Re: \'tribal\' inspired nation
 

Machaka (MA) is pretty close.

Re: \'tribal\' inspired nation
 

Mictlans are Maja/Aztecs
Machakas are Zulu
Some Independants are North American Tribals.

Re: \'tribal\' inspired nation
 

You might want to check out the Haida Gwaii mod. (go to the mods forum, and the stickied mod list, and look for Haida Gwaii among the EA nations. ) I never played it myself, but from reading the nation thread it looks to be exactly what you're looking for.

Re: \'tribal\' inspired nation
 

I look forward to a great mod from you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Here's a couple of tips though:
1) Use the modding manual in the /doc folder in your dominions3 directory.
2) I don't remember where, but somewhere in this forum there is a file that contains all of the sprites of all of the units in the game, it's pretty useful for the less artistically inclined of mod makers.

Re: \'tribal\' inspired nation
 

I hadn't realized Machaka is inspired by Zulu. But I see it now.

Thinking more about the nations, Oceania is probably meant to reflect, in the most general way, some minor aspects of the Pacific Islanders. But they really can't do that region of culture justice with the Oceania nation.

Islander mythologies involve flying canoes, islands of (mischevious) women, winged people, and people with tails; very little of their mythology had to do with life under the sea. They also had (amazingly) tales relating to a northern people with ability to build wonderous things that the Islander people could only copy (amazing because to some people this is prophetic of Europeans; although this is kind of an arrogant eurocentric take on these myths).

Re: \'tribal\' inspired nation
 

thanks, I'll check it out.

Re: \'tribal\' inspired nation
 

There's no tribal nation, because the tribes haven't united. When the tribe gathers power, it will be assimilated by another culture, or it conquers it. Examples:

Horse Tribe -> LA Tien Barbarian Kings
Toad Tribe -> LA Mictlan
Jade Amazons -> EA Sauromatia
Jaguar and Lion tribe are not-yet-nation versions of EA Mictlan and MA Machaka

Bear Tribe/Barbarians - not really any spesific nation, but they could fulfill the role of two-handed weapon wielder available in most human nations. I mean, MA, Ulm axemen, Marignon twohanders, Man Wardens, Vanheim Skinshifters, Mictlan Moon Warriors - many choices.
Similarly, Deer Tribe isn't adopted into any spesific nation, although MA Eriu units bear some resemblance, what with swords being rare, javelins common and lack of bows.

Amazons don't have their own nation, but as mentioned above, EA Sauromatia has adopted local Jade Amazons.

I'm not sure if this answers your question, but here goes any way. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: \'tribal\' inspired nation
 

Yes, youve addressed the heart of my complaint. There are few truly animistic tribal cultures represented among the nations of Dom3 (with maybe the exception of Machaka, don't know much about history of Zulu or what period of history Machaka is meant to capture). Mictlan, Maverni, and others you mention only capture the qualities of a tribal people in transition to horticulture or pastoralism, with the consequent abandonment of animism as people move their gods into their homes and temples. Only indie 'tribal' provinces emphasize an animistic relgion (wild peopls follow their totems); but this is oversimplistic.

I guess I'm thinking an Islander animistic tribal society makes a good base for a Dom3 nation because there is no oppurtunity in history for them to undergo the almost deterministic transformations you've outlined regarding tribal peoples (conquer and abandon animism and hunter/gathering, or be conquered); the pacific islanders lacked the ecological determinants for any of this (thanks Jared Diamond). This very lack of history gives them a base for making such a nation in a historically inspired fantasy genre; their mythology of animism is frozen in time, and because of their ecological and historical impotence that made this possible, their culture is largely ignored.

With a relatively non-existant history of conquest to preserve their animistic culture, tribal Islanders seem a great base to design an animistic tribal nation from. It may also provide another 'wateresque' nation to add to that somewhat small list of water adept nations.

Re: \'tribal\' inspired nation
 

I think such a nation would lack the ambition to go out and conquer the world, seeing as they either lack the concept of "Manifest Destiny" or whatever you want to call it, or they are just content with their lifestyle and don't overpopulate the land they inhabit. A lot motivation to conquer stems from too many people and not enough resources, which is rarely an issue with tribal cultures. Maybe that's why they are relegated to troops in indy provinces.

Re: \'tribal\' inspired nation
 

Haida Gwaii was actually created to fill the void you are talking about. I based the nation on the first peoples of the Pacific Northwest. I tried to pay careful attention to their animist beliefs and defining customs including totems and the potlatch.

Since I created Haida Gwaii, the game has changed significantly, particularly in the area of modding commands. Along with those changes, my knowledge of the game has improved quite a bit. In the near future I would like to revisit some of my mods including Haida Gwaii, giving them a much needed reworking.

Edit: Cleaned up some of my rambling and whining.

Re: \'tribal\' inspired nation
 

Haida Gwaii is excellent. It's always been one of my favorite mods, not (sorry) so much because of the features the mod has, but because it does, very clearly and nicely, fit a niche that needed to be filled.

For me, growing up the way I did in Pennsylvania, with my dad who is very much into archaeology, mythology, and genaeology, and having access to a couple of really good historical libraries, I really was able to get a sense of a hidden history and this enormous sprituality that seems to run through the land itself.

The neat thing about Dominions is that the game itself is telling it's own stories: it's not confined to just the players and what we happen to decide to do in a certain game. It's got all these influences, all these backgrounds and voices, and Native American elements deserve to be represented. The game feels incomplete without a nation like Haida Gwaii.

It's a very good mod, on it's own merits. The artwork is good, the execution is very nice, and it's an unusual, creative choice for a subject, but there are so many extremely high-end mods to choose from that it's the emotional response I get from it that carries the most weight for me.

Re: \'tribal\' inspired nation
 

By the way, I understand that Machaka is supposedly based on the Zulu, but I'd like to contest that a bit: First of all, the Ashanti (from Ghana--the word "Ghana" means "Warrior-King", by the way--bordering the Ivory Coast, in West Africa, as opposed to KwaZulu-Natal, the home of the Zulu, in South Africa) are the people from whom stories of Anansi (the trickster spider-god) comes from. His father, Nyame, is their chief god. Other stories come from the Gold Coast, and Surinam; where Anansi-Tori (spider stories) are involved in burial rites (the stories are understood to be told *to the Dead*), which seem to tie in to the idea of a spider "death-god".

Zulu mythology, conversely, seems to involve a good deal of sky and nature. They have their own interesting myths and archetypes, including the tiny, fairy-like Abatwa who are very sensitive about their size. Insulting them or stepping on them evokes a death-sentence via poison arrow.

Another being is the draconic Inkanyamba, a terrifying water-serpent-who can also fly on the backs of storm-clouds. Both of these beings seem to have originated with the Bushman culture (The Bushmen worshipped and drew cave-paintings of a water-serpent who was their protector), which has mostly been displaced by the Zulu.

Zulu myth also contains the Intulo, a lizard-man, and omen of death/doom that some people have connected (a bit dubiously, in my opinion) with the "Reptilian Alien" UFO meme.

Re: \'tribal\' inspired nation
 

I thought Machaka was more H. Rider Haggard than specifically Zulu.

Re: \'tribal\' inspired nation
 

If you mean the books about Alan Quartermain, I honestly don't see how. I've read both books (King Solomon's Mines and The Lost City of Gold), and neither one strikes me as especially Machakan in nature, and She is set underground. Could, ofcourse, be a story I'm unfamiliar with. I've got all of Haggard's works, and they're wonderful, but I haven't read them all yet.

Re: \'tribal\' inspired nation
 

I wonder if Machaka isn't kind of a hybrid grind-up of 'African tribes'. It isn't uncommon for this to happen to animistic cultures.

Take American Indians. We rarely bother to differentiate between Onieda, Cherokee, Souix, or Seminole; rather we just clump them together and grind their separate cultures into 'Indian' or 'Native Americans'.

Re: \'tribal\' inspired nation
 

Well, the manual mentions King Solomon's Mines when talking about them. A hybrid grind-up of pulp fiction about the 'lost tribes of Darkest Africa', perhaps? The evil sorcerers ruling from an extinct volcano and the giant spiders with associated cult fit right in.

Omnirizon: I agree about the grind-up. The various Eskimo tribes probably get fed up that they're all called Inuit, too. And all those Celts, Angles, Saxons, Normans (and Vikings, Romans etc...) probably get annoyed at being lumped together as English these days.

Slightly snide comment of the day.
 

I think it all started with the English, Germans, and French calling themselves "white".

Re: Slightly snide comment of the day.
 

It's not really a lack of animist cultures. The early Ulm, Marverni and so on are based on European nations at the point where ancestor- or animal-worship was transmuting into the idea of Gods.

It's more that most of the nations are based on European cultures. Maybe not a surprise considering what I assume (maybe unsafely!) the cultural upbringing of the creators and most players. There aren't really any nations covering the Arabs and Persia, south-east Asia, and so on, either.

* * *

LA Atlantis are basically Eskimos, aren't they?