Battlefield Support Missiles and Rockets?
 

I can quickly understand why these aren't included in the stock game (debatable usefulness and it would require sucking up more OOB and more importantly weapon slots), but has anyone attempted modding something like this?

Most battlefield rocket and missile systems had a conventional warhead similar to that of a large aircraft bomb, so I wonder if it would be overly difficult to mod an off-map rocket battery set to ROF 1 (or whatever seems appropriate given information on number of launchers per battery and reload times etc) with an extremely limited number of rockets with relatively high accuracy and payloads (doesn't warhead size over a certain amount create splash damage into surrounding hexes?) I've just been browsing through the US Army monographs on the history of systems like Lacrosse and Honest John and got curious if anyone has experimented with such things as off-map assets.

Re: Battlefield Support Missiles and Rockets?
 

Accuracy ratings do not effect indirect fire. Else we would have had things like Krasnopol and Copperhead a long time ago. You can test it, jacking accuracy up to 90 or what not and in indirect fire dispersion will stay the same. That's why in order to simulate smart shells FOs have been beefed up some versions ago with additional ratings.

Re: Battlefield Support Missiles and Rockets?
 

Alright, I didn't know that, further explains why no one is experimenting with this.

Re: Battlefield Support Missiles and Rockets?
 

On the other hand the built in game artillery accuracy may actually be too high to represent, let's say, your run of the mill north korean export SCUD which could fall anywhere on the map.

EDIT
300mm rockets with unitary warhead are already in the game.
You could tinker a bit with them to simulate certain weapons but as I said there are code limitations which restrict how much you can wander off...

Re: Battlefield Support Missiles and Rockets?
 

I might if I find the energy or the inclination. If even just for experimental purposes. I've spent a fair amount of time creating unorthodox weapons in terms of code limitations hehe.

Re: Battlefield Support Missiles and Rockets?
 

Unorthodox?

I've made a Daisy Cutter delivered via C-130.

That count?

Re: Battlefield Support Missiles and Rockets?
 

Heh, yeah, I did that. Did you create a weapon for it? I created an ammo carrier unit with crew set to zero so you could use it as intended (kinda maybe hehe).

I've created psyops loudspeakers, CS grenades, I tried leaflet bombs (ends up being the same as CS cluster bombs, so I just stuck with those, I could add them in later if I wanted heh), and other things I'll likely think of. Its fun to see what you can get away with if you accept certain game realities. Oh yeah, WP marking rockets, manually emplaced booby traps, and air dropped sensors.

Re: Battlefield Support Missiles and Rockets?
 

Sorry for jumping the thread late, not much online access these days...
But plenty of time to sort out OOBs, so I tried this one out not long ago.
I modded FROG-7 and SS-21 offmap batteries into the Algerian OOB for testing both end of the accuracy range.
Values were as follows: range according to formula for potential further use, HEK=HEP=255, WHS according to aircraft bomb ratings, accuracy 1 and 255 respectively.

Debriefing:
-Accuracy has really NO influence. None. Same CEP for both models. I reasoned that systems of that ilk had quite short unsupported service lifes so were phased out quickly, so one could pretty much time the ingame service dates with that of FO units of suitable technology level.
Even then, I haven't found the change in accuracy caused by top-notch FOs (including allied para OPs from OOB 13...) to be worth the bother and reflective of the accuracy of modern missiles.
In both cases, FROGs are basically in the ballpark (or out of it, if you prefer), but the 50m CEP of the Russian SSMs of the last 20+ years are nowhere to be found.

-HE effects are unimpressive at best. I tested the weapons first against assorted clusters of entrenched troops, and the lethatlity was close to zero. Effects on morale were better, routing a wide zone of good troops where it would have been taken several batteries of medium arty for the same effect.
Against softer opponents, it has to be mentioned that I happened to wipe out whole squads of moving troops regulary, but I still don't consider that worth the overall bother and potential tactical incoherences.

-I included them also as teh ultimate CB units, but haven't manageed to test that yet. In the case of backwater FROG/Scud users, the experience levels won't even raise the question in any case.
I have kept the ATACMS in the Cold War Mod in any case, and it turns out to be of less use as a regular MLRS latoon at game levels.

-I have kept them as 93-code offmap MRL batteries (can't remember the class right now), with 2 launchers/weapon slots per unit (that's for Soviet stuff with doctrinal 4-launcher battalions), ROF=1 and 1 or 2 TEL loadout depending on the estimated reload-refire time (anything over 2-3 minutes gets zilch available reloads, same for regular MRLs as far as I'm concerned).
Which means that you end with 2 to 4 missiles per battery, tops.

To sum it up, the exercise is rather pointless in usual combat terms, but you can include thm in custom OOBs where room allows, being understood they are for scenario use only. A specific text file could be interesting to have in that case.

Re: Battlefield Support Missiles and Rockets?
 

My Daisy Cutter is aircraft delivered, has basically no accuracy, has rather limited effects on anything but soft targets in the open.
But it's fun !

WC=11, Acc=1, WepS=2, WarS=255, HEP=20, HEK=255

Re: Battlefield Support Missiles and Rockets?
 

Yeah, I thought about the "big bomb" weapon option, but with the seperation of OOBs for my pack, I had more free unit classes again to fool around with such things. So I went with an option that would allow the use of the game's paradrop mechanic.

Re: Battlefield Support Missiles and Rockets?
 

Oh???
You're what, paradropping your vehicle/bomb?
How do you get it to go off?

Love the idea, as paradrops are usually more accurate then bombers seem to be.

Re: Battlefield Support Missiles and Rockets?
 

Remids me of something... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Is that the one where you stuff a weakling ammo carrier into a transport plane and drop it to die, therefore exploding?
Best I can remember (Listy's experiments waaay back) it turned out to be not that reliable, but maybe you can tweak that somehow.

Re: Battlefield Support Missiles and Rockets?
 

I found that you can get a reliable explosion if you set the crew to 0. Otherwise the explosion is extremely unreliable. However, the process by which you use it in game gets a little more complicated. Since a 0 crew unit is technically destroyed at game start, you need to use the "next unit" function during deploy to find it, then load it into the cargo plane. After that its okay because the game doesn't register it as in play until it lands, at which point it registers it as destroyed and you get the ammo explosion.

Listy was like the godfather of all these kinds of things heh. I drew a lot of inspiration from his UK OOB updates, and liberally "borrowed" concepts like his CS gas grenades and assorted rifles weapon, though I tuned my own versions. I did not, however, look into investigating his tracked minelayer or multi part ship concepts (One section LCS, one section area SAM, etc).

I have two "weapon" units in my USAF OOB. Both the M121 and BLU-82/B are ammo carrier class units (Class 56). Ammo carrier units when destroyed have a major explosion (with serious splash damage). So following the steps above I created these "bomb" units (X3ed out in the OOB, though you will seem them in the ammo carrier formation) that can be paradropped in game.

The process is pretty inaccurate, as you still have to assume the plane will go where you tell it too, and its really more a flavor thing than a serious game mechanic. It could be a cool start a scenario right. I was actually thinking of playing a game with one or two and seeing whether or not you got a serious benefit from the whole thing. Also note that the destroyed unit would count against you in the final tally.

Re: Battlefield Support Missiles and Rockets?
 

No surprise.

That's interesting. But then again in reality for everybody
save maybe the US several years down the road guided artillery rounds and such are going to be a limited availability weapon, while the FOs give accuracy boost to any weapon with any ammo supply available. So maybe accuracy in the game was not fully jacked up to "realistic" levels to compensate for that.

I always thought that FROG and similar weapons were about the max you could milk from this game engine that were still somewhat realistic.

Re: Battlefield Support Missiles and Rockets?
 

Yeah, that's what I wanted my Daisy Cutter for - a scenario start weapon - ye olde instant LZ thing.

Re: Battlefield Support Missiles and Rockets?
 

Yeah, unfortunately you can't make it so it can knock down foliage. I always wished that the game allowed for building a weapon big enough to turn a hex with trees into a clear one.

Re: Battlefield Support Missiles and Rockets?
 

Hello! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

I'm fairly new to Win Sp, but from I've seen so far, it rather easy to learn to play (compared to Matrix's TOAW 3!).


I'm learning about building a scenario for play, but I have questions that perhaps you can answer:


1) Is it possible to add a nationality to the current list? if so, how?

2) I've heard something about Very Heavy missiles---such as the FROG missile. Is it possible to design even larger weapons such as the SCUD or Scaleboard missiles for use in the game? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Thanks for your time! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Re: Battlefield Support Missiles and Rockets?
 

For some answers to your first question, check out these other threads:

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...o=&fpart=1

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...o=&fpart=1

For an answer to your second question I'd just suggest going back and reading the first page of this thread.

Re: Battlefield Support Missiles and Rockets?
 

Yeah, know you can't do anything to the vegitation - more a flavor thing then anything else.
I was also once trying to figure out how to make a tac nuke for a scenario idea I had. Didn't have any luck tho.

Re: Battlefield Support Missiles and Rockets?
 

I once tried to make a tac nuke by calcullating its HE kill (using kiloton equivalent and the same formula I use for HE) and then making a weapon tha'd fire a required nuber of HE Kill 255 warheads, but the survivability in ground zero was too high.

Re: Battlefield Support Missiles and Rockets?
 

Oh?
I'm not overly worried about survivability, again I'd planned to use it for a scenario starter.
BOOM !!!
Now play the scenario with the "remnants" of your forces.

What did you wind up with as a number of warheads from your calculation Marek_Tucan?

Re: Battlefield Support Missiles and Rockets?
 

Found just for Davy Crockett - for minimal yield (10kt) some 4 and a bit HEK 255 warheads, for max yield (250kt) ca. 22 such warheads. AFAIK tried also double the number of HEK 128 warheads. But don't recall exact numbers, though I may be able to repeat the tests if you like. What I do remember is that I was unimpressed.

Re: Battlefield Support Missiles and Rockets?
 

Thanks Marek !