Flame Weapons
 

Couple of questions:

1) how does it work? It says 6 AP damage. Does it means it adds 6 damage to, say, the 5 damage of a shortsword, for a total of 11 dmg? If so, does it means the whole dmg is AP? Or does it inflict 6AP dmg as a separated source of damage. If so, does it means it does not work at all on units with Prot 12+?

3) Are claws (and other non-weapon attacks) "melee weapons" for the purpose of Flaming weapons?

Re: Flame Weapons
 

1) The 6AP damage is separate. However, as all damage and all rolls random variation happens on both sides of the roll. Against 12 (effective 6) prot, the flame has 46% chance of dealing at least 1 point of damage, and against 18 prot (effective 9), 24% chance of the same. See page 5 of your manual for further numbers.

3) Yes, anything including the hoof attack of the unit's mount is a melee weapon.

Re: Flame Weapons
 

Flaming weapons conflict somewhat with magic weapons that have AoE like coldbrand, Ember and so on. I can't remember which effect takes priority - the item's or the bless'. Of course, it only occurs for blessed units wielding magic weapons.

Re: Flame Weapons
 

Are you sure about the hoofs Endo?

I read somewhere on this forum that secondary weapons are not flaming and it was specifically stated no flaming hoofs.

Re: Flame Weapons
 

IMO, the 6AP fire damage can be just regarded as an "additional weapon".
At first your normal weapon will make a DRN throw against target's protection(+DRN from the other side), after which you will make 2nd DRN throw, with 6 AP against enemy's pro (only half is counted)+DRN.

Both damage will be summed to get the final damage.

Yet I am not sure if a F9 kinght of the chalice can benefit twice from flaming weapon in 1 turn(hoof+sword).

Re: Flame Weapons
 

to test give the commander 2 shields.
If the victim catchs fire. Then it works with hoof.

Re: Flame Weapons
 

Well, that's what I've always thought... I'm not sure how much I can trust what I've always thought, though.
P.S. I think I've used all too many al's, th's and 'oughts in this post, although only once in the same word.

Re: Flame Weapons
 

I am not sure this would work. If "secondary weapon" is defined as "attacks that come after the first attack without qucikness" then the test would not work. If there is a tag where all kicks are secondary then this would work well...

Re: Flame Weapons
 

does fire resistance negate the flaming weapons effect?

Re: Flame Weapons
 

it does.

Re: Flame Weapons
 

But unfortunately, fire blessed troops count as magic weapons - even against fire immune target's mistform/ethereal.

I say 'unfrotunately' because I do not use blesses, and my SC pretenders have 1 fire pick. :-)

Re: Flame Weapons
 

Hooves do catch people on fire.

How did I test this? New game with Marignon, F9S2 Baphomet, I recruited a Paladin and forged him two Enchanted Shields. Both lance and hoof are bonus weapons, but lance was used up on first. It took several turns of 1-3 points of damage before anyone caught fire, but one militia did, indeed, catch fire. Ergo, fear the flaming hooves.

Re: Flame Weapons
 

I happened to be playing with F9 blessed units w/ lots of attacks, so I ran a battle w/ logging -ddd. Here's the part of the log for a single attack in that battle. The attacking unit is a Prince General (MA Tien Chi sacred cav) ID 2547 wielding a Sword of Swiftness and a Stone Bird:

2547 striking with weapon Sword of Swiftness. att28 def20
hitloc Prince General strikes Black Hunter wl2 diff2 -> 4
hitunit 2547 2029 dmg9 spec1 ba4
damage 5 on Black Hunter, spec0x1 ba4
hitloc Prince General strikes Black Hunter wl6 diff-2 -> 2
hitunit 2547 2029 dmg6 spec96 ba2
2547 striking with weapon bless fire. att27 def16
hitloc Prince General strikes Black Hunter wl6 diff-2 -> 2
hitunit 2547 2029 dmg6 spec96 ba2
2547 striking with weapon Lance. att28 def18
hitloc Prince General strikes Black Hunter wl4 diff0 -> 3
hitunit 2547 2029 dmg30 spec-2011168768 ba3
damage 17 on Black Hunter, spec0x88200000 ba3
hitloc Prince General strikes Hunter Spider wl6 diff-2 -> 1
hitunit 2547 2029 dmg6 spec96 ba1
damage 7 on Hunter Spider, spec0x60 ba1
2547 striking with weapon Hoof. att25 def16
hitloc Prince General strikes Hunter Spider wl0 diff3 -> 4
hitunit 2547 2029 dmg10 spec136314880 ba4
hitloc Prince General strikes Hunter Spider wl6 diff-2 -> 2
hitunit 2547 2029 dmg6 spec96 ba2
damage 2 on Hunter Spider, spec0x60 ba2
2547 striking with weapon Stone Bird. att40 def18
hitloc Prince General strikes Hunter Spider wl6 diff-2 -> 4
hitunit 2547 2029 dmg9 spec134217728 ba4
hitloc Prince General strikes Hunter Spider wl6 diff-2 -> 1
hitunit 2547 2029 dmg6 spec96 ba1
2547 striking with weapon bless fire. att31 def15
hitloc Prince General strikes Hunter Spider wl6 diff-2 -> 1
hitunit 2547 2029 dmg6 spec96 ba1
damage 5 on Hunter Spider, spec0x60 ba1
2547 striking with weapon bless fire. att27 def14
hitloc Prince General strikes Hunter Spider wl6 diff-2 -> 2
hitunit 2547 2029 dmg6 spec96 ba2
2547 striking with weapon bless fire. att27 def18
hitloc Prince General strikes Hunter Spider wl6 diff-2 -> 1
hitunit 2547 2029 dmg6 spec96 ba1

As you see, the fire effect triggers for most attacks. I'm not sure why it doesn't trigger for the lance or hoof. OTOH, it seems to be triggering for 3 of the Stone Bird's 4 attacks.

I'm a little too busy to run more tests now, but maybe over the weekend... unless somebody else tests before then. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Flame Weapons
 

thanks Evil Dave, that is odd.

Re: Flame Weapons
 

In EvilDave's log, this line:

hitunit 2547 2029 dmg6 spec96 ba1

appeared twice after Sword of Swiftness, once after lance and four times after the Bird. The line:

2547 striking with weapon bless fire. att31 def15

which identifies the bless appears just after the hitunit lines, when it appears, AND the 'hitunit' line deals 6 points of damage (as bless fire) and has spec 96. I'd guess that spec 96 is "this weapon deals fire damage".

I have no idea why "bless fire" seems to appear AFTER the attack has been done, or why it doesn't appear every time, but I think the actual damage line from it appears once for every attack.


[img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Bug.gif[/img]
However, Fire Bless cuts off multiple attacks! Sword of Switness deals its own damage
hitunit 2547 2029 dmg9 spec1 ba4 only once, but the bless damage twice
hitunit 2547 2029 dmg6 spec96 ba2
hitunit 2547 2029 dmg6 spec96 ba2;
similarly Stone Bird deals non-resistable damage once, and the fire damage four times:
hitunit 2547 2029 dmg9 spec134217728 ba4
hitunit 2547 2029 dmg6 spec96 ba1
hitunit 2547 2029 dmg6 spec96 ba1
hitunit 2547 2029 dmg6 spec96 ba2
hitunit 2547 2029 dmg6 spec96 ba1

This is something that SHOULD be tested. Might be easiest to do that with a modded weapon with silly number of attacks. Hmm...

Damage 10, armor-negating melee weapon with +15 att and no str added should work. Oh, and 10 attacks of course.
When this weapon is used against any fire-immune titan (Sphinx with Ring of Fire Resistance is good), if the Sphinx only gets ~10 points of damage, Fire Bless does take away consecutive attacks. If he takes ~100 damage, it's just a glitch in the log file.

I'm at work, so can't test it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: Flame Weapons
 

Ok, thankyou very much. I realized that something happened with my number 2) question though ^^

2) does flameweapons confer magic property to the weapon itself, or just the flame damage? I mean, i hit a ethereal unit with my flaming lance. Does the ethereal unit get a 75% chance to ignore the lance damage?

Re: Flame Weapons
 

I didn't remember to test the flame weapons, and won't have a chance to do it today. I hope I won't just forget about it...

Re: Flame Weapons
 

Okay, it's almost midnight but I just tested it.

[img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Bug.gif[/img] If a weapon has multiple attacks, and the unit using the weapon has been blessed via Fire 9, the weapon deals damage only once. :bug

Thus, if your Jotun Herse goes against a fire-immune unit with his Sword of Swiftness, he will only deal 9+str damage once, instead of twice.

Re: Flame Weapons
 

ok...

but what about the flaming hoofs? those still work? It is only with a single weapon that gets multiple attacks, the fire bonus will only apply to its first attack?

Re: Flame Weapons
 

No, I think what Endoperez is saying is that you won't get multiple attacks from your normal weapons (the ones that have more than one swing to them, like a sword of swiftness), but you will get the firebless attacks.

Re: Flame Weapons
 

Exactly.

With hoof (1 attack), you get:
1 hoof
1 fire

With Sword of Swiftness (2 attacks), you get:
1 sword
2 fire

With Gloves of the Gladiator (4 attacks), you get:
1 gloves
4 fire

Re: Flame Weapons
 

What about my question? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Does the physical damage from the weapon itself count as magic?

If a hoof with fire attacks a Black Servant, does the black servant gets its 75% ethereal "saving throw" versus the physical damage and eats the fire damage, or is the hoof as a whole considered a magical weapon?

Re: Flame Weapons
 

AFAIK, flaming weapons do not affect ethereal SC's with fire resistance, so probably only 6AP fire damage is magic. I did not make special tests but it always seemed to be so.