Build me an MA Ulm thug
 

I'm somewhat new at Dominions 3. Played a bit of single player Dom2 and fared well against the AI.

I'm working on this 'Thug' strategy that I hear bits and pieces of.

I've tried recruiting a Black Lord and equipping him with some decent armor and weapons, bumping up his MR and Prot, but he got blasted first time I sent him somewhere.

If you were going to build an Ulm MA thug to harass enemies, what would be your unit and magic items?

Re: Build me an MA Ulm thug
 

humans don't make good thugs HP-wise... summon something strong

Re: Build me an MA Ulm thug
 

Black Lord with Fire Brand and Charcoal Shield forged by a Master Smith with a Dwarven Hammer. Put 2-5 Black Knights in a squad with him on Guard Commander, and him on 0-5 Hold orders followed by Attack Rear or Attack Archers or something, and place them on the flank of an army. Maybe also some other Black Knights in a squad on Hold & Attack Rear, and/or other thug squads.

If he's a good one or you want to invest more gems, Marble Armor and Bracers of Steel. Without research you can also forge a Sword of Sharpness which is a good worthwhile boost to both offence and defence. If your enemy is using MR-resisted spells, add an Amulet of Antimagic.

Re: Build me an MA Ulm thug
 

sounds like a lot of gems for something pretty vulnerable still

Re: Build me an MA Ulm thug
 

Well that's what Ulm has for thugs (aside from later-game things that everyone has), and it helps to have the forge bonus. It can work well enough against the AI or players that haven't developed a counter. Not that counters are hard or necessary. But I don't think it's merely a waste unless you're not really wanting to try to use MA Ulm.

Re: Build me an MA Ulm thug
 

It isn't as many gems as you think. MA Ulm has forge bonus 25% + hammers 25% = 50% off.

Re: Build me an MA Ulm thug
 

You could build him a Pendant of Luck (if you're lucky to get Astral on a smith, or an Astral merc, or a lizard shaman) and a Girdle too. If you've got a N1 indy mage make him some birch boots too.

Re: Build me an MA Ulm thug
 

Thanks for the advice! My smiths are hard at work now.

Re: Build me an MA Ulm thug
 

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't forge bonuses mulplicitive instead of additive? I.e. 1/4 and a 1/4 gets you 9/16?

I'm also going to say not to bother equiping black lords to be thugs. A successful thug needs multiple levels of defense, such as high defense, protection, glamour/mirror image, awe, and high HP. Don't despair, however, as few nations have truly wrothwhile recruitable units to make thugs out of. Instead, I'd suggest you pick a pretender with some death magic, summon some banelords, and outfit them with earth and fire equipment.

Re: Build me an MA Ulm thug
 

Forge bonuses are additive.

Re: Build me an MA Ulm thug
 

edi has spoken

/me see OmikronWarrior become microwarrior and retreat

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Build me an MA Ulm thug
 

I don't think low hp human recruitables make /good/ thugs, but they do make fun/thematic thugs and they can work well, especially in SP.

I personally like to build some human thugs in SP because mythology and history is full of amazing individuals. So if one of my random commanders does well or gets a couple of stars of experience or something I usually thug him up. It's just a fun way to play.

Re: Build me an MA Ulm thug
 

innate unit forge bonuses and hammer bonuses are additive. any other forge bonus (site, global), is then multiplicative.

Re: Build me an MA Ulm thug
 

hmmmm... I am just waiting new patch since "iron angel" could be the best choice. But maybe it is limited to LA Ulm or just nothing but a cool name...

Re: Build me an MA Ulm thug
 

Iron angel is limited to MA Ulm, if I read the teaser posts on the forums correctly.

Archaeolept, thanks. I thought the lot of them were additive, but I have never tested it too closely or with the big gem cost items which would most easily reveal these things.

Re: Build me an MA Ulm thug
 

I know that with a Dwarven Hammer and Forge of the Ancients, a Ring of Wizardry costs 12 pearls, rather than 65. I can't work out why, it seems insanely cheap. I know it certainly does though, I've been forging one a turn for about 20 turns in Marmoset!

Re: Build me an MA Ulm thug
 

Hmmm, don't know about the Iron Angel obviously but I've had some luck using Black Lords as thugs. Before I get into them specifically let me address your broader question about how to build thugs.

To build a thug you need as many of the following as possible (after any magic buffing you can do):
Good hitpoints or mistform
Very good protection (25+)
Very good defense (25+)
As many ways as possible to negate some percentage of attacks (ethereal, lucky, awe, vine shield, fire immunity, etc.)
An area of effect weapon (fire/frost brands are obvious choices)
Regeneration and/or a lifedraining attack
Good reinvigoration and/or a lifedraining attack
Low encumberance
A cheap price tag - thugs should be relatively disposable

Now, usually you can't get all that in one package and some nations have better choices available than others. Ulm's Black Knight has more than one achillies heel, but he does have a couple things going for him. First and foremost, he's one of the cheapest thug chasises you'll find and with Ulm's forge bonus he's also gonna be one of the cheapest to equip as well. With a dwarven hammer Ulm's smiths only pay 2 gems for a 5 gem item, and that's were you want to aim for your disposable thugs. Since they're so cheap, you also want to use more than one at a time together(a bit different than most thugs), 2 or 3 riding together is more along the lines cost wise of other thugs - what else can you field for just over 100 gold and around 10 gems? You've also got to keep in mind their weaknesses and only deploy them where they're effective - generally raiding PD and avoiding any mages. Most any player with any experience will drop them like flies when they run into any real magic opposition so stay away if possible. Obviously you'll want to configure them differently depending on what they're actually fighting, but here are some things I found to be very effective:

Barkskin amulet - get an indie mage to forge. You don't get a forge bonus but this still only costs 3 gems and ups their protection over 30.

Fire brand - 2f 2e, AOE and armor piercing

Shield of gleaming gold - awe +0 can go a long way against chaff

Pendant of Luck - 2 pearls? Hell yeah

Girdle of strength - 2 earth reinvig goodness and the extra strength makes that AP firebrand that much better against larger foes.

Amulet of MR /Lead Shield - still not great MR, but better than nothing.

Charcoal shield - killer against some PDs

Resistance items - fire/lightning rings with smiths, frost/poison however you can will counteract the focus of many nations.

They're not unstoppable killing machines, but properly deployed they can be well worth their cost.

Re: Build me an MA Ulm thug
 

Very good guide Baalz!

Re: Build me an MA Ulm thug
 

"nce they're so cheap, you also want to use more than one at a time together(a bit different than most thugs), 2 or 3 riding together is more along the lines cost wise of other thugs - what else can you field for just over 100 gold and around 10 gems?"


I like thinking about the Black Lords as the 4 horseman of the apocalypse. Use them together for better results. I've also tossed faithful/or lucky shield on them if I need luck but need to free up one of the misc slots.

Also, it's fairly easy for Ulm to be able to golems in the construction line.

Re: Build me an MA Ulm thug
 

Yep. What I was saying, but in more detail. Also why I add some Black Knights on Guard Commander - they are much better than a Dancing Trident or something like that, multiply the "hit points" if you think hit points are a huge deal, and cost no gems.

Re: Build me an MA Ulm thug
 

Even though he's Conjuration-6, Troll King's court is pretty easy for Ulm to cast once you get it. The Troll King is pretty tough and has regeneration. He's also Earth-3 so he has access to some self-buffs.

I noticed in the above setup there's no armor, Black Lords already come with Black Plate which provides excellent protection--in SP where I used them as thugs a lot there wasn't much better that was worth the cost.

Re: Build me an MA Ulm thug
 

The next patch probably gives the Black Lords a slight boost in the armor. I think the mod the changes are based on made Black Plate of Ulm's stats identical to Black Steel Full Plate, so +few protection and perhaps -1 encumberance, or something along those lines.

Just remember that if a commander doesn't have a magic armor equipped, his armor CAN be destroyed via magic. Acid spells, Destruction, Armor of Achilles... they work on everything, including intrinsic items that are usually magical, like Fire Plate of Eagle Kings of EA Caelum.