Equipment: which to use and what to avoid?
 

With the, not exactly small, collection of items in this wonderful game to find and/or forge, what are some of your equipment approaches and/or favorites?

As I mentioned in my other post, I'm still quite the newbie to the game, and some of the item descriptions are dubious at best.(Bearclaw Talisman anyone?)

Personally, I've sofar been trying to get as much offensive ability on my non spellcasters, so I often end up with 2 weapons on my stuff, usually completely ignoring defense unless I don't need more weapons.

Is dual wielding, regardless of weapon types, preferable to a 2 handed weapon?

2 copies of the same one handed weapon tend to deal more damage then it's 2 handed counterpart.(I think?)

Anyone here ever tried wielding 4 weapons on the 4 armed commanders/pretenders? If so, just how deadly did they get?

I've noticed the Air and Fire domains let you build RP boosting items, always a good investment I'd assume?

I can definately see the usefulness of items which generate magic gems, especially if you don't have a Turmoil+Luck scale setup or the item makes a gem type you don't have easy access to.

Re: Equipment: which to use and what to avoid?
 

4 weapons is fun but generally speaking 2 area of effect weapons are enough to clean around you. And life drain is so great that fire brand, frost brand, and the 2h life stealing sword make a fine combo.
I wouldn't ignore defese if I were you. You're very likely to lose your super equipped combatant if you do that. Charcoal shields are great for both defense and offense for instance, as they can kill your opponents.
The owl quill is auite poor. Death has a much much better research item (skull mentor). Fire is quite good too.

Re: Equipment: which to use and what to avoid?
 

Wielding multiple weapons causes penalties based on weapon length and limited by how ambidextrous you are. Some of us have made ultra-killer multi-armed units, though I've had limited luck, but didn't try real hard. Most units should consider fatigue, as well.

A single heavy weapon may do more or less than multiple weapons, depending on type of weapon and target. If protection is close to or greater than damage, then the highest damage may do more than two hits at lesser damage.

I pick equipment based on what units and enemies I have.

Re: Equipment: which to use and what to avoid?
 

(assuming base game):

Most all-purpose items:

Luck pendant, frost brand, anti magic amulet, starshine skullcap, boots of flying, charcoal shield, ring of regeneration, marble armor, lifelong protection pact.

Strong Niche:

Reinvig items (especially boots of the messenger), almost anything providing an elemental resist, eye shield, rime hauberk, other luck items, quickness items, horned helmet.

Avoid:

Crystal heart, bear claw talisman, red and blue dragon armor, silver hauberk, crystal shield, hammer of the mountains, bane blades, any whip, evening star, star of heroes, star of thraldom, boots of giant strength.

Owl Quills
 

Clearly the death item mentioned rocks - but it isn't necessarily so that owl quills are a bad idea.

If I have a small caster, something like a 1-2 path with 1-2 levels in each path, and a drain scale, so my net research is 5 or so...

spending one character action to add 3 build points is worthwhile (imo).

Re: Owl Quills
 

Avoid the crystal shield? It can be invaluable to my mind.

Re: Owl Quills
 

On a SC? It seems pretty overpriced and heavy for that position.

EDIT: Owl quills are pretty marginal in most cases, skull mentor have their niche, but lightless lanterns are even better.

Re: Owl Quills
 

The question concerned items in general, not just scs, though.

Also, why avoid red/blue dragon but not green? Is poison res that much better than fire/cold?

Re: Owl Quills
 

Why not bane blades? They seem like a decent early weapon.

Re: Owl Quills
 

Hmm, I read it more as for building SCs, but in any case I'm not convinced on the crystal shield for any purpose. If you have the astral to forge one communions and power of the spheres can almost always fill the niche.

On dragon armor, really green armor is pretty bad too, but unlike the other two there are cases where you might totally lack access to armor with a decent protection value other that.

Bane blades are basically trinkets requiring more research. Most trinket weapons are slightly better in stats and the decay effect (in that context) is almost 100% useless. When equipped on a SC, weak things will die quickly anyway, and it's quite ineffective agaist enemy SCs.

Re: Owl Quills
 

I really like the Spirit Helmet even if it's not the most efficient helm. And of course I have to mention clams because no one else has yet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Owl Quills
 

The Crystal Shield is too heavy for anything but an undead commander who doesn't get any encumbrance to carry. I lost a good Gorgon by stupidly equipping one that I got in a luck event.

Re: Owl Quills
 

Green Dragon armour is not good because if you could make it, you could have made Hydra Skin instead, freeing up a misc slot and getting 100%PR instead of 75.

I build a few Horror Helmets if I'm not worried about being mind hunted, and I've got enough death gems. Don't build Skulls much unless I've gone drain-2. Snake Bladders plus Horror Helmets can be good for killing morale and stripping Glamor. Vine Shields are good if you can't make Charcoal Shields.

Armor of Souls is great if you can forge it and have the slaves. You can even squish the slaves with your Dwarven Hammer etc, unlike the contracts.

Re: Owl Quills
 

I always wondered how the Dwarven Hammer helps with using blood slaves. I see now. You squish them with it.

Re: Owl Quills
 

Yeah, He who spareth the hammer hateth his slaves, or something like that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Owl Quills
 

I've had a couple times when crystal shield was quite useful. When you're one level short of that devastating spell (army of gold, weapons of sharpness, darkness, wrathful skies, fog warriors, etc.) and your caster doesn't have astral. True, this is a niche use, but one that I find comes up a decent amount of the time. True, a communion can sometimes fill this role, but being able to air drop in a single tough guy to cast earthquake/flame storm/etc., returning the turn the enemy army moves to attack you is not really possible to duplicate with a communion.

Re: Owl Quills
 

I forget, does a Crystal Shield boost holy, if the bearer is just a priest?

Re: Owl Quills
 

How about the crystal coin? I always felt it was one of the best deals you could get (for an SC).

True, it has no offensive capabilities like charcoal shield, but it gives you luck (freeing up a slot, I therefore like it better than the luck pendant) and still has decent defensive stats.

Re: Owl Quills
 

Well, the crystal shield is amazing for getting you up one more level in battle to cast big battlefield spells, if you can forge it.

Only got A3? Stick on a crystal shield and you can cast Fog Warriors. Similarly it can give a bit more earth for Army of Gold/Lead. Or a bit more holy for Divine Blessing. In battle it's almost as good as a Ring of Wizardry.

However, it's true that it should be used only for casting a single spell (or maybe two) per battle, otherwise the weight is indeed an issue.

Re: Owl Quills
 

I believe the bearer has to be a mage for the shield to work though. So on a holy-only priest it's no use. But on a mage-priest it's great.

Re: Owl Quills
 

Thanks to there being three lucky items, Luck is one of the easiest abilities to move around. Faithful, Lucky Coin and Pendant of Luck are almost always interchangeable to suit your needs.

Re: Owl Quills
 

It's true, in almost all cases the Hydra armor is greatly superior. However, of nature amours green dragon skin at least has the distinction of having significantly higher protection than other armors, even if in 99% of cases it amounts to little. So in the end I guess we arguing the rather theoretical concept of levels of uselessness. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

On the crystal shield, yes I suppose in rare spellcasting situations it has a niche, especially since it got a good sized discount from dom 2 to dom3.

Re: Owl Quills
 

crystal shield is really effective with undead caster, because no encombrance at all

Re: Owl Quills
 

Sorry, that's not the case. Undead (and other Enc 0) casters take extra fatigue from casting spells with armour on.

Click on the Encumbrance stat, the popup will say something like:

Basic Encumbrance: 0
Melee Encumbrance: 0
Spell Casting Encumbrance: 7

Re: Equipment: which to use and what to avoid?
 

Star of Heroes is not so bad (at least when playing MA Ulm).

Pros
* +4 attack (against shields +6)
* Destroys all armor except magical)
* Quite good damage (12 + strength)
* One handed and not so long (2) for ambidextrous use
* Cheap 5E (even cheaper for master smiths)

Cons
* -2 defense. But this is not really a con when playing MA Ulm as your defense is abysmal anyway. Just go offense and more armor.

Re: Equipment: which to use and what to avoid?
 

Ooh, I just tried Star of Heroes - yeah, it's not too bad. Two attacks as well! I gave some Black Knights two Stars each, nd they ended up with 4 attack-14 damage-26 attacks, which I think isn't bad for 6 gems (or 4 with hammers, I think).

Re: Equipment: which to use and what to avoid?
 

Just to point one thing out again that is easily forgotten: Maces/Morningstars/Flails/Whips (magical and non magical) gives +2 EXTRA attack against ALL shields. This is not seen when you click on "attack".

Thus the flail gets 2 attacks (+1) + -2 defense on the target in the second attack + if shielded +2 on all attacks.

Example:
Unit A attacks unit B

Unit A
Base 10 attack
With flail 11

Unit B
Base 10
With shield 14

Unit A
First attack
Attacks 11 + 2 against shield = 13
Defense 14
13 against 14

Second attack
Attacks 11 + 2 against shield = 13
Defense 14 - 2 for second attack = 12
14 against 12

Flails damage is only +3 though. So don't try them against heavy infantry with shields. Instead use morningstars +6 damage. Against heavy infantry without shields use battle axes or mauls depending on defense.
But you can clearly see flail guys rock against light infantry.

All weapons in the game have their niche I believe. MA Ulm's infantry pretty much covers them all. My tip is to recruit units with the weapons able to most easily deal with the defense you expect to be up against. If possible that is.

Re: Equipment: which to use and what to avoid?
 

This still does not really stack up even against weapons of sharpness. The destroy armor effect is fun, but anything you are paying to equip should have enough punch to kill most things with non-magical armor in one hit.
Armor piercing is just much more useful against tough opponents than destroying non magical armor and the anti-shield effect, while in most cases the attack bonus is easily canceled by the defense hit. Another good weapon to compare it to is the fire sword, again a trinket, with very similar stats but much easier on the defense.

As for every weapon having a niche, I invite you to compare battle axes and mauls, or short bows and longbows. Unless by niche you simply mean you are often don't have the full selection of weapons available. Or for forgable weapons, take a look at the vine whip, even the star of heroes looks good next to it. I actually agree flails and morning stars have a niche (on troops), but I think such generalizations are just aren't realistic.

Re: Equipment: which to use and what to avoid?
 

Yes, I agree Quantum, some weapons are worse than others in every way except one - in cost. In some cases cost is a factor, in others not so much. That is what I mean with niche as well. Now and then you don't need that extra damage or that extra attack, you will be better of with more troops or more weapons instead. Quantity over quality if you will.
But that isn't black or white, quality will conquer quantity with hardly any loses at some levels. So few loses will it take that it would have been better to go with quality. The key word is of course efficiency, but that is relative to a number of things.

As always it is good to come up with an example:
What do you prefer:
4 Black lords kitted with low class magic items.?
Or
1 Black lord kitted with high class items?

The answer is of course: "it depends". Maybe you could take 4 provinces at once with the low class BL, and only one with the one BL. But maybe the four low class BL can't take one thug? What do you prefer? With those extra provinces you might find gems faster to kit out an even better BL.
So you looking at the whole picture and from there drawing good conclusion (not the best because it is almost impossible to predict exactly how humans will react to your decisions) on how to act seems like a good way to play. Trying to approximate what is the perfect move.

Re: Equipment: which to use and what to avoid?
 

Well, the advantage of the Star of Heroes over the Fire Sword is you get two attacks!

Re: Equipment: which to use and what to avoid?
 

Of course, extra attacks are not always preferable.

I recall a set of gauntlets that gives you 4 attacks, however most of the other stats on the item aren't that grand.

One of the things I'd love to see would be an equipment guide.

One with general suggestions, and/or on a per nation/magic path/strategy section.

It's all nice and well when you read *get a mage with this path ASAP*, but what if you want to stick to JUST a nation's paths?

Some people might prefer sticking to their nation's own magical paths, or maybe they have such bad luck that they just can not find the right paths for the stuff.

For example, those following a science victory would probably do best picking a nation with death, fire and wind magic skills, in that order of preferance. As the 3 research boosting items are in those paths, from best to lowest.(and 2 copies of the same RP booster don't stack I think)

Some Nature aligned nations with high HP sacreds could well be following a strong Nature bless for Regeneration boosts.
You could potentially decide to pick up items to boost this further(on the regenerating commanders at least)

Several water related nations literally drown in water magic skill, but are often a fish out of water in the other paths.

What could be a good choice for a 100% water set of equipment in their case?

Of course, depending on one's gem income, you technicly have access to most if not all the magic paths, but those are still "if" scenario's.(or at least not without "wasting" alot of gems on empowering)

And I for one like to minimize "if" impacts in management portions of games.

Can't always be helped, of course.

One thing which will probably help save ALOT of confusion, is clearing up how some items work.

Bear Claw talisman only lists it strengthen the wielder and can make female ones grow beards. Knowing WHAT it actually strengthens(= exact stat mods) and/or if it changes the audio track from female to male when dying would be info the current game mechanics don't tell us for this item.

Just used the item as an example, but there are several items which are dubious at best.

Re: Equipment: which to use and what to avoid?
 

Check out Zen's Magic Item Quick Reference for Dominions II. You can get it from the download section of shrapnel's D2 page. Much of it still applies...but it would be really nice to have an updated version....

He did Summoned Creature QR as well.

Shameless self-promotion
 

Though it's not quite what you've described, I've put together an equipment reference, of sorts. It can be accessed via the link in my signature.

Re: Shameless self-promotion
 

For the dragon armors to be more usefull, they should give 100% resitance for their element, and more protection.

I would also like a lot more choices for helmets. It is hard to find a helmet that is any good. There is the helmet that give 50 percent resitance for fire. Equivalent ones that give resitance for electricty, and cold would be nice. Right now there are lots of items that give fire resitance, but it is harder to find items for the other elements.

Re: Equipment: which to use and what to avoid?
 

Whips get a bonus against all shields? This seems strange to me, unless you're dealing with a whip that can shock you. Granted whips suck pretty badly, but this still does not seem logical to me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/yawn.gif

Re: Equipment: which to use and what to avoid?
 

I'm not sure if whips have the #flail bonus or not, but I think it's due to the fact that a "blocked" whip might warp around the shield and hit you in the back of your helmet.

Do you even care if you're hit with a nonmagical whip, though? Damage taken after protection is reduced is capped at 1, and you don't need much protection to negate even that.

Re: Equipment: which to use and what to avoid?
 

Does anyone actually use the whips? They seem useless to me.

I;ve used Crystal shield on a TC (rainbow) mage + reinvig boots to good effect.

Re: Equipment: which to use and what to avoid?
 

I use whips, but only on my blood slaves. Whoops, might have let out a little too much info there.

Re: Equipment: which to use and what to avoid?
 

In CB, some whips are worth using. N1 and 5 gems for Animal Awe should be good againt elephants, Thunder Whip is the first AN weapon I think, Demon Whip only takes Fire for an AoE attack...

I've also tried making a repel thug armed with a whip, but that seems like a dead end.

Re: Equipment: which to use and what to avoid?
 

I've actually found Silver Hauberk occasionally useful. Not often enough to put into even a "Strong Niche" category, certainly not "avoid". It provides 16 protection for 1 encumberance, which is the best protection you can get for 1enc. If you need to keep the wearer's fatigue low, it can be the best pick out there; the Air Shield effect is just gravy.

Yes, Rainbow Armor is generally better for the fatigue-watchers, but there are situations (especially in early game) when an extra 6 protection can be better than the MR/revig. And more importantly, you don't always have the NA paths.

Re: Equipment: which to use and what to avoid?
 

Gauntlets of gladiator have 6 attacks in CBM.
They are two-handed, so without shield SK may be somewhat vulnerable to crowds (but they have niches anyway).
Where gauntlets may really shine, I think, it is a battle with other SK's. Give an undead SK (if not undead, he may be fatiqued pretty quickly) these gauntlets and boots of quikness - he would have twelve attacks per turn. Even being blinded, such SK is dangerous for many creatures.

Re: Equipment: which to use and what to avoid?
 

EA Caelum, Magic +1 Owl Quill 60gp Spire Horn Seraph give I think 5 research.

Cheap.

Re: Equipment: which to use and what to avoid?
 

The whip that does the entangle is *very* worthwhile vs sc's.
The demon whip aint great but its cheap AoE.

Re: Equipment: which to use and what to avoid?
 

how about bows? I've never used them on thugs (apart from batteries of banefire-bow-wielding commanders when playing la atlantis - that proved to be quite fun but there had to be several for the volley to have any serious effect, plus hitting my own troops was a common occurrence)
so how effective are they? off the top of my head I'd say a frost brand is always the better choice, but I could easily be wrong

Re: Equipment: which to use and what to avoid?
 

Archery is a separate branch from thuggery in many ways, but magic bows can be very useful. Bow of War, Botolf, and the AN bows all have their place.

sure, on an assassin or thug killer, but how about other uses? eliminating tough units maybe?

Re: Equipment: which to use and what to avoid?
 

For killing tough units, AN bows as I mentioned. Botolf is also an option because the feeblemind it inflicts will lower MR, helping mages to kill said tough unit.

Bows don't really do the same job as brands, so comparing the two is tricky.