AI and surrendering
 

How do you get the AI to surrender? I've destryoed and Crew Insurgented all their ships, I'm blockading all their planets. I've tried anarchy Groups and glassing a few planets, but they keep defying me and warning me of a major offensive.

jerks.

Re: AI and surrendering
 

If the AI will surrender or not, depend of some settings into the Politics.txt

For example the Pyrochette settings are:

Score Percent To Accept Demand your surrender := 6000
Will Accept From Friend Demand your surrender := False
Will Accept From Enemy Demand your surrender := True

The Pyrochette will surrender to enemies, but must have an score 6000% more than the Pyrochette! It mean than will be very difficult to see them surrending.

Re: AI and surrendering
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oggy ben Doggy:
How do you get the AI to surrender? I've destryoed and Crew Insurgented all their ships, I'm blockading all their planets. I've tried anarchy Groups and glassing a few planets, but they keep defying me and warning me of a major offensive.

jerks. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It depends on the AI. Most standard AI's require that you have 10 times their score, but some require 20 or 50 times their score. Some of the TDM ModPack races will never surrender. As MB said, the settings are in the politics file. The minimum score for a race is the number of Tech levels times 200 plus 600 (automatic minimum resources, 200 of each). So once you have destroyed their ships and bases (not units) and blockaded all their planets, that's all you can do. Glassing planets doesn't help.

Re: AI and surrendering
 

From personal experience, I've gotten better results by asking for surrender in a demanding tone than in a neutral tone. 'Course, that was with the stock AI's, not TDM.

Quikngruvn

------------------
Stay alert. Trust no one. Keep your laser handy.
--from the RPG Paranoia, now my PBW mantra

Re: AI and surrendering
 

Look at it this way: in RL wars, whether or not a nation will surrender doesn't follow any particular set of rules. It depends on the culture, the leader, the situation, etc.

I think that if the behaviour of the AI were completely predictable and logical---"I have X times its score, therefore it should surrender"--SEIV would be less fun as a game. I like the randomness of AI behaviour; to me, this makes it seem more human than most computer game AI.

Just my opinion.

Re: AI and surrendering
 

I'm sorry Natsef-Amun... but the SE4 AI behavior to accept/reject surrender, is very predictable and logical. You only need to check the corresponding Politics.txt file!

Re: AI and surrendering
 

QUOTE:
I'm sorry Natsef-Amun... but the SE4 AI behavior to accept/reject surrender, is very predictable and logical. You only need to check the corresponding Politics.txt file!
/QUOTE

Does veryon look at the AI files when playing the game? I wouldn't do this, as it givs m (anothr) unfair advantage over the AI - aftr all, he can't look at _my- AI files=-)


BTW, about getting "unsurrendering" enemies to surrender, try this. It might work, it might not:

Blockade each planet and intel it with anarchy Groups until the angry population rebels and the planet splits off from the empire. You can do more to anger the population by winning battles in that system. I could be wrong but I think the newly formed empire might use different AI files to the "parent" empire, and therefore be more susceptible to surrender.

It does seem to be quite difficult to force a rebellion though, I've been blockading a major Crysonlite world for ages, intelling it every month and it still won't split=-(

------------------
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"I think so Brain but, if you replace the P with an O, my name would be Oinky, wouldn't it?"

Re: AI and surrendering
 

You can modify the AI files, and boost the AI advantage while setting up the game.

Then, set the Ministers to AGGRESSIVE, and see if they surrendar then.

PS, checking the AI files for AI weakness while playing a game is as cheap as using a trainer while playing IP game. Nuff said.

(Bad habbit, no offense)

Re: AI and surrendering
 

One thing I have also noticed is the fact that the AI never demands your surrendar. Why is that?

Re: AI and surrendering
 

Wasn't there a thread a while back discussing AI demanding surrender, and something about the demand surrender/subjugation/protectorship not working?

Like stated earlier - the AI surrendering all depends on how the AI was set up. Some will never surrender, some surrender easily, and at least one will only surrender to allies.

Re: AI and surrendering
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Atraikius:
Wasn't there a thread a while back discussing AI demanding surrender, and something about the demand surrender/subjugation/protectorship not working?

Like stated earlier - the AI surrendering all depends on how the AI was set up. Some will never surrender, some surrender easily, and at least one will only surrender to allies.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is correct. At this time you can't make the AI demand someones surrender. Believe me, I've tried.

Re: AI and surrendering
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
I'm sorry Natsef-Amun... but the SE4 AI behavior to accept/reject surrender, is very predictable and logical. You only need to check the corresponding Politics.txt file! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know I *could* check the politics.txt file, but I don't. I really like the uncertainty. To me the *process* of competing against/fighting/defeating the AI is the fun thing. Checking out the AI files in advance would kind of ruin my little fantasy of running a space empire and struggling for survival against hostile aliens, etc...

Re: AI and surrendering
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Like stated earlier - the AI surrendering all depends on how the AI was set up. Some will never surrender, some surrender easily, and at least one will only surrender to allies.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Surrender to ALLIES?!? How does that work?

Re: AI and surrendering
 

CW- when I wrote the AI, I just switched the will accept from enemy demand surrender to false, and the will accept from friend demand surrender to true so they will fight to the death against an enemy, but will surrender to an ally if they are enough weeker.

Re: AI and surrendering
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Krakenup:
[quote]So once you have destroyed their ships and bases (not units) and blockaded all their planets, that's all you can do. Glassing planets doesn't help.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

actually, if you glass their planets, you lower their score, which might make them accept you surrender

Re: AI and surrendering
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oggy ben Doggy:
actually, if you glass their planets, you lower their score, which might make them accept you surrender
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Nope. Blockading subtracts all score for that planet. Glassing does not reduce the score further.

Re: AI and surrendering
 

"Glassing does not reduce the score further"

I disagree 100% with you!
IF you glass all the AI planets, you will see that their score will be really low!!!!

Re: AI and surrendering
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Krakenup:

Quote:

Originally posted by Oggy ben Doggy: actually, if you glass their planets, you lower their score, which might make them accept you surrender <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Nope. Blockading subtracts all score for that planet. Glassing does not reduce the score further.

Well, i had every planet blockaded and they had no ships. whenever I glassed a planet their score dropped, eventually they surrendered.

which may have been the loss of mineral, intelligence, and research production.

(edit fixed tags)


[This message has been edited by Oggy ben Doggy (edited 09 August 2001).]

Re: AI and surrendering
 

What I would like to be introduced would be the possibility for the AI to
1.) demand surrender
2.) surrender to a third party: if the AI is in a situation where he would accept surrender, he would do it to but not to the empire that is demanding it but to his ally with the highest score. You would have a line in the politics file to choose if this possibility was true or false for each race.

Re: AI and surrendering
 

QUOTE:
surrender to a third party: if the AI is in a situation where he would accept surrender, he would do it to but not to the empire that is demanding it but to his ally with the highest score. You would have a line in the politics file to choose if this possibility was true or false for each race.
/QUOTE

I don't like this, it is completely pointless and unrealistic. Think about it - the only reason a government would surrender is to prevent the dstruction of their cities and population. Surrendering to someone other than your attacker will not acheive that, since the attack will simply continue. (unless that ally is also allied with your enemy.)

It really winds me up in PBEM when playrs can't be bothered to continue so they just surrender to their friend - I'd hate to see the AI doing it as well.

------------------
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"I think so Brain but, if you replace the P with an O, my name would be Oinky, wouldn't it?"

Re: AI and surrendering
 

As I said it would be an option you may or you may not give the AI in its politics file. It would make the AI stronger and prevent human players to grow rapidly by making AI empires surrender to them.
About realism: I do not care about it! For me its a game and not a simulation.

Re: AI and surrendering
 

Why would surrendering to an ally be pointless and unrealistic? It would just be like a permanent protectorate - they surrender to thier strongest ally who protects them from thier enemy.

Re: AI and surrendering
 

Like I say, the whole point of a surrender is to stop an attack. If my enemy surrenders to another one of my enemies, am I going to stop attacking them? Do those border colonies suddenly become less vulnerable? Not really. The war continues as if nothing had happened - the flags change, that's all.

If you're going to make the AI surrender to its allies rather than its conqueror you may as well do away with multiple enemy empires altogether: Just have human player(s) vs one huge AI empire - as each empire comes close to collapse, it surrenders to the largest AI empire (which becomes larger... domino surrenders anyone?) and you quickly end up with a single AI mega-empire.

Having worked hard to batter my enemy into submission I would like to be able to force him to surrender to me. I don't want to destroy him utterly, I want his population, planets and tech. If he wants protection from another empire then the game has scope for that, with it's complex protectorate, subjugation and request help features. The time would be better spent getting the AI to use them rather than just surrendering to some undeserving ally at random.

------------------
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"I think so Brain but, if you replace the P with an O, my name would be Oinky, wouldn't it?"

[This message has been edited by dogscoff (edited 07 August 2001).]

Re: AI and surrendering
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
"Glassing does not reduce the score further"

I disagree 100% with you!
IF you glass all the AI planets, you will see that their score will be really low!!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Point for MB!!

Re: AI and surrendering
 

A couple of relevant lines from Settings.txt:

Planet Value Percent Loss After Owner Death :=10
i.e., planet loses 10% of its value in all three resources when the planet gets glassed)

Home System Percentage Value With No Spaceport := 25
I think this allows for an empire to receive 25% of its production, even when planets are blockaded. But I'd recommend some testing to verify exactly how it works.