LeafNosedBat- EA game (upload pretenders)
 

Okay, this will be another game for new/newish players. I'd recommend players who've already played 0-2 games - if you've played more than that and would like to play regardless, post here and you can play if we're short of players. This should be a nice, fun and friendly game, a reasonable size but not too huge, and generally ideal for new players (that's the plan, at least).

This will be an EA game and will use the Worthy Heroes mod. Renaming will be on, graphs will be on, and everything else will be standard.

The map will be my modified version of Parganos, which is modified (a) to have a much more fair and even spread of terrain types, (b) to have fair-ish start positions, and (c) to have no gold or magic sites in the seas - so this will be a land-nation only game. I'll attach the map to this post.

Please sign up here and choose a nation! So far we have:

C'tis - Carkaton
Abysia - Darkstone
Niefelheim - Peacekeeper
Ulm - Edi
Vanheim - ehakakelate
T'ien Ch'i - Comtrav
Kailasa - Psycho
Lanka - kruton

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Hi, been lurking here for a bit waiting for a newbie game to start. I'd like to play C'tis. Thanks!

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Thanks llamabeast, I was itching for a bat game.

Abysia please.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

id like to give this a go as Niefelheim, have 1 dom3 game currently going(see funneledearbat noob game). Like i said there i played a few dom2 games before so if you get a large interest, id be happy to sit out for someone.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

What the hell, I'll take a stab. Sign me up as Ulm.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

I've been lurking for a while, and feel ready for games with other people.

I'd like to take Vanheim.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Ooh, filling up super fast again, and it's great to see some really new players. And Edi - awesome! Very glad to have you.

If this one fills up quickly I'll make an overflow game again.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

(To those who don't know, despite his huge post count and vast contribution to the Dom3 community, Edi has never to my knowledge played Dom3 multiplayer.)

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

True. I've played all of two MP games in Dom2 and that's the sum total of my Dominions MP experience.

One was just to check on how badly I'd screwed up Vanheim's start location on the Faerun map, where I was swiftly eliminated, though my opponent got a bit more than he could chew comfortably, especially when his main enemy became my ally of preference while I was going down.

The other game was one with Abysia and I went pretty far in that, but when the strongest player abandoned the game and another one managed to take all of his territory uncontested, finishing in shared second place was good enough. I'd never had so much fun pouring 4x Flames from the Sky + 10x Fires from Afar and assorted Earth Attacks and Seeking Arrows on the enemy research capital in one turn before...

Dom3 MP is a whole different ball game on some levels, judging by stuff I've read so far. Basics the same, details vary a lot and there are many more things to consider. So while I may have an edge in theoretical knowledge, I'm about as green as they come experience-wise.

So be no surprise if some other nation's false god gets to mount the Hunter of Bugs in his trophy hall. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

I'd like to join as Tien Chi.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Kailasa for me

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Okay cool. I thought this was full and created an overflow game, but it turns out I just had a counting failure - one space left.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Well, there's still one space left, but in the meantime people can start uploading their pretenders. Here's how:

Right, everyone who posted has a spot except for seda (sorry; slightly too late) and Aezeal (surely you don't count as a newbie still?! - in any case, I gave priority to the newer players).

Re Worthy Heroes - what it does is add more heroes to the game, and in general make them a little more powerful. Not overpowered, but it's nice if, when you get a hero, they're quite useful. The latest version is 1.8 - I'll turn my mention of it in the first post to a link in a minute.

The next thing to do is to design and upload your pretenders. Here's how to do that:

- Make sure you have the same mods enabled as the game you're playing in (Preferences->Mod Preferences) although only mods affecting pretender design, such as Conceptual Balance, actually matter
- Go to Game Tools -> Create a pretender god in Dominions. Don't set a password, since for PBEM games they're not helpful and occasionally annoying (e.g. if you need a sub)
- Go to the savedgames/newlords folder in the dominions directory, and find your pretender file (e.g. mid_pythium_0.2h)
- E-mail the file to: pretenders[ at ]llamaserver[ dot ]net
- Crucially, you must have the game name 'LeafNosedBat' in the subject line of your e-mail

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Sent. I hope it came through okay.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Count me in for Lanka

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Great, so we're full. Please start designing and uploading your pretenders everyone.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Note to anyone who would have like to play in this game: VesperBat is open and waiting for players (although it is LA rather than EA).

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Niefelheim has been sent.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Sorry for my delay, I'll be sending my pretender within 2-3 hours.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Can someone tell me where to find the command-line parameters. I would like to know how to start the game with the mod enabled, rather than having to enable it manually.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Abysia has been sent.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Great, the game is started! Hopefully you should all have received your first turns just now. The first turn has 48 hours on the clock in case of problems - you shouldn't need even nearly that much time. Subsequent turns will have 24 hours, at least until people start to ask for it to change to 48 hours, which will probably be sometime in mid-game.

I'd also like to ask for a volunteer to admin this game. The admin has to do two things:

1) If a player asks for an extension or anything then do it (provided it's reasonable; a day or two is reasonable, if they are going away for a week they should get a sub). It's super easy via the interface on the website.

2) If the admin gets knocked out of the game, pass the password on to one of the remaining players.

It's a really easy, almost zero-work job, but it keeps me from having to carefully watch 30-odd game threads (which I tried for a bit, and it hurt).

Finally, advice on a fun game: I highly recommend doing lots of diplomacy, and posting here lots with bits of reports from your empire and so on. Games with lots of interaction like that tend to be really fun and memorable.

Have fun guys!

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Thanks for the advice llamabeast, and thanks for hosting.

If you wouldn't mind arbitrating, I'd like a decision about NAP style. Should we have honorable or Machiavellian style. This came up in Acouchi, when there were some surprises and a bit of unhappy discussion. It would probably be a good idea to get that out of the way beforehand, so everyone knows what to expect, instead of leaving this with the vague default.

I'm perfectly fine with you deciding one way or the other, but if you want to instead take the pulse of the players, based on the friendly newbie game atmosphere, I'd vote for honorable NAP (since IMHO we're here to learn how to play MP, and not build reputations). Perhaps it might also be a good idea to include a note concerning the topic for all your future newbie games.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Aha, a sensible suggestion Darkstone.

Okay, I hereby declare that yes, this is an honorable game, and people should stick to non-aggression pacts (NAPs) even if they become inconvenient. So be very careful what treaties you agree to!

Just to be clear on the conventions, if you agree to a 3-turn NAP, that means that you have to give three turns warning before attacking the other party, NOT that it only lasts 3 turns from when the agreement is made.

Incidentally it's a tricky question on whether honorable treaties should generally be enforced in games, and I personally haven't really been able to form an opinion, hence not making any statements elsewhere. But I think this time it's a good idea. Being as almost all players stick to treaties anyway and breaking them sometimes leads to bad feeling, I think it probably is sensible to have the situation clearly defined in a newbie game.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

just a question guys ... but hows llama's ruling anymore enforcable than a normal trust system with NAPs?

ultimatly the community judges you for breaking them, not any rule decided when the game is made.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

We'll see where this goes. I'm of a mind that if I agree to something, I'll hold to it. Once it expires, watch out. If I'm betrayed, well, guess I will not be trusting that person in that particular game (other games are a different matter, since playing in character may cause different behavior).

I prefer an honorable system. But I've trouble playing the stabbity-stab model either if it should come to that.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Well I can't enforce it as such. I'm just stating that's the idea for this game - NAPs are meant to be inviolable. In most other games that is never stated. Most players assume it, but occasionally someone doesn't, and violates an NAP since they believe they are entirely within their rights to do so. This often causes bad feeling.

The alternative would be to play with a Machiavellian style, in which NAPs can be broken and diplomacy is a subtler affair. This could be very fun too, and I plan to run a game explicitly like that at some point. But for this one (assuming no objections) we will go with the NAPs-should-not-be-violated model.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Well, llamabeast is no enforcer. In fact, outside of the hardcoded game settings, nothing is truly enforcable. The same scenario holds true for real life laws. You can't actually prevent crime, simply punish the offender afterwards. I expect something similar here, where every player, who always has more than one neighbor, the neighbor could feel free to fight an honorable war against the offender in defense of one betrayed, and for the mutual benefit of both. Like many historic wars and battles, most rulers typically needed a claim (land, title, etc.) or righteous cause (even highly debatables ones) to start wars (and in this case, join ones in progress).

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Well, no one can enforce treaties in the real world, either, if someone decides they REALLY REALLY want to break them. Obviously, though, if you violate a NAP, no one will trust you, and no one will trade with you, and honestly if you can't engage in diplomacy in MP you're missing half the experience.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Another tricky issue (also impossible to enforce): Ritual Magic. Now, some ritual magic appears as a random event, but some are pretty obvious ("Wow, what are the odds of arrows from the sky killing all of my capital researchers in one turn?") Is this GENERALLY considered a NAP violation?

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

sure the event might be obvious that it was caused by magic ... but the wonderful thing about a lot of spells is that hte message you get are anonymous so you cant tell easily who cast it.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Well, that's certainly true in larger games, but in a smaller game like this, there's most likely going to only be one or two nations who are the clear suspects for even completely anonymous spells, especially those cast in a large group.

If they're your neighbor, it cinches it (motive, means, opportunity). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Even in larger games, its often pretty obvious (I suppose, by the late game, anyone can have theoritically empowered themselves into any path they want). At least for the rituals that are really damaging, and if anyone has an uberwtfpwn strategy revolving around Baleful Star, I'd like to hear it.

Another 'gray area' is the turns 'in between'; almost all NAPs can be left with prior notification with a specificied number of turns. Now if the other person breaks the NAP during those turns, what're you going to do? You were going to be at war anyway, which was about all you could threaten him with before.

I suppose we, the players, could form a UN like organizations, and when someone violates a treaty the other players could spam him with messages telling him how naughty he's been. We could even impose trade sanctions, but in Primea I can't give away water gems so that doesn't matter. It would be outrageously fun and funny to have a game with this sort of setup, though.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Maybe people should announce their NAPs. If there is a record of one that gets violated, at least people will be slow to trust the backstabbing guy in the future. Seems that there's not much more to do.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

heh

I have to agree that sounds pretty funny and probably would be an enjoyable gametype. It sounds like something for maybe a much larger game with maybe 20 players, and many provinces per player (25+), so wars would be much slower and nations could behave more like nations.

Edit:
Oh, and since the game began... good luck everyone. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Guys, there's no need for all this talk of NAP enforcement I think. Everyone who plays Dominions in my experience is pretty mature - the only issues arise when people have different understandings of what an NAP means (for example if you're used to cutthroat games like the board game Diplomacy, you'd drop an NAP at the first opportunity). I was just trying to clarify that for this game, they're meant to be adhered to.

Nooo. Secret alliances are the best!

I like the UN idea. Sounds fun. I'd like to try something like that some time.

Have fun guys!

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

You'll all excuse me for wishing the pox on each of your respective nations. Especially Abysia, damned merc stealer... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Seriously, it's shaping up to be fun because now I have to think carefully about everything and there is no guarantee I'll get anywhere. May the best player win. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Hear hear!

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Hey guys, should have done this a while ago: I'd like to ask for a volunteer to admin this game. The admin has to do two things:

1) If a player asks for an extension or anything then do it (provided it's reasonable; a day or two is reasonable, if they are going away for a week they should get a sub). It's super easy via the interface on the website.

2) If the admin gets knocked out of the game, pass the password on to one of the remaining players.

It's a really easy job, but it keeps me from having to carefully watch 30-odd game threads (which I tried for a bit, and it hurt). Help with this would be hugely appreciated.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

I can do that.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Oh, sorry Edi, I didn't see your post. I'll send you the password right now.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Psycho you suck admit who tough you everything... lol

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

I'm playing three games at once, and I suppose its inevitable I would do badly in one of them. I think things went really downhill for me when my huge army went one way and all the mages who were going to support it went another.

At least I managed to dodge the bullet on getting rushed in the other two games (and one as much-maligned MA Ulm, no less). And although things are looking pretty bleak against Lanka, I'm not done in yet.

I have initially expanded slower than I would've liked in any of my three games...next game I play I will try to go with awake SC pretender or bless rush. I suppose a lot of it is luck of starting position, though.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Luck and starting position play a huge part. So does the disposition of your first neighbors and where you manage to take things.

As far as this game goes, not to put too fine a point on it but you got caught between a rock and a hard place. No idea about Lanka, but your other neighbor's graphs say it all...

With regard to expansion, I must say that my own initial expansion was slower than I had hoped. It's picked up some at Vanheim's expense now, but we'll see how it goes...

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

@ComTrav:
You do realize that you need neither a SC or a bless rush to expand quickly? Certain nations can do it effectively with other methods.

Luck certainly plays a larger role in the games than I would prefer.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Carl von Clausewitz likened war to a game of cards...you can't control what cards you get, but there's skill in playing the hand you're dealt.

Sending my huge army one way and my scads of mage back-up another? Pure nub =). (I have no idea how it happened, except maybe I misclicked, who knows?)

@ Darkstone-Yes, I realize neither SC or Bless rush is needed for quick expansion for certain nations. I was able to keep pace in the early game in my other two games, at least after I stopped patrolling every province after I captured it like I did in SP. I can't help but wish I would've designed my pretender this game with something other than late-game boosters in mind, though =).

I suppose is Lanka gets attacked by someone else and I manage to take back territory I'm not totally finished; after all, I have plenty of mages and I'm still pretty solid on research. (I would, naturally, be very grateful to anyone who gave me this opportunity.)

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Is there a problem with the server? I tried emailing my turn and received "delivery failed" message. (Earlier today I had no problem with Fruitbat, though, who knows?)

Tie\'n Ch\'i still alive
 

And handed Lanka a pretty serious defeat last turn. If these monkey demons which to withdraw all of our forces north, and acknowledge the greatness of Tie'n Ch'i culture and kowtow before the one true God of Gods, a peaceful resolution is still perhaps possible.

(There, I got to demand someone kowtow, which is half the fun of playing TC...we'll see if I make it to the late game to really make good use of my potentially crazy diverse magic, which is another part of the fun.)

Interested in trading for a Dwarven Hammer if anyone has one. (Playing MA Ulm in Primea has spoiled me for forging...)

Re: Tie\'n Ch\'i still alive
 

I had trouble getting my turn file earlier, but everything seems to be working normally now.

That's some seriously wishful thinking on your part though, both in terms of getting peace at any point in this game (especially since TC tends to be both powerful and threatening late game), and the dwarven hammer. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Besides, why would you need one if you designed your pretender with late-game boosters in mind?

Re: Tie\'n Ch\'i still alive
 

TBH, it's not the 3E that's keeping me from the hammer, it's the gems. I'll get one on my own eventually, but I sort of wanted to see if I could get it faster by trading. Paying full price for forging is getting to me =).