Ideas for 1001 Arabian Nights-themed nations
 

With someone asking about the lack of camels in Dominions, it got me to thinking of a certain lack of Arabian mythology, and how great it would be to have at least one Arabian-themed nation per age. Some thoughts off the top of the head for Arabian Nights themed nations:

-wasteland survival and Heat Resistance 50 for all units, most with high mobility and high natural defense, leather armor and robes, no shields, basically superb light infantry and nothing approaching medium or heavy infantry, darker skinned
-assassins with poison daggers
-stealthy eunuch spy/assassins with strangulation
-courtesan with seduce command
-national blood, air, fire summons - dust devils, efreet and djinn
-whirling dervish sacreds with two scimitars, possibly berserk
-scimitar weapons: Attack 1, Defense 1, Damage 5, Reach 2, costs same amount of resources as broadsword
-mounted nomad archers - shortbow, scimitar, robes
-horses or camels never have any extra attacks
-at least one air mage with a flying carpet!
-mages never have any water paths
-air, fire, astral are common magics, with perhaps one commander getting a blood random
-poofy pants!
-at least two different tribes per nation in every age
-maybe a snake cult?
-weak priests
-nomad princes and sheiks
-some kind of merchant unit?

Also really makes keenly feel the absence of a Stand Off and Fire command for mounted archers where they move away from infantry units and pepper them with arrows.

Re: Ideas for 1001 Arabian Nights-themed nations
 

Post#520679
Al Murrah - desert dwellers, MA nation started year ago but never finished.


Another unfinished mod from a year ago: Arabs and carthaginians


This short exchange happened in a thread named "Possible missing nations in Dom III?", but AFAIK nothing more ever happened. This was at the end of 2006.
Thoughts on Persian/arabic/byzantinian mod for DomII, by Thinktank. Never finished.

Re: Ideas for 1001 Arabian Nights-themed nations
 

Assassins are a must...the word assassin comes from the Hashashin, after all...

Although you don't say it, preferring Heat-2 seems like a gimme.

The camel units should possibly have a reduced supply requirement for their size.

Although this is more Ottoman, and much later, it would be nifty if you could build special Janissary troops only in conquered territory.

Re: Ideas for 1001 Arabian Nights-themed nations
 

I realize this is somewhat tangental, however I have an Achaemenid Persian nation (330 BC) written out, and it's on the schedule/list to be completed. It would be created jointly with a Macedon nation (with the idea of focusing on 1on1 SP/MP duels).
Currently planned after 3 other mods (though one is almost finished and ready for release).
Which means at least 3 (more likely 6) months away.

Re: Ideas for 1001 Arabian Nights-themed nations
 

Ah yes, temperature scales. Heat 1 sounds sufficient, there's not really anything very magical about the population (base MR 10) so more might sound like a little much.

Camel units could have Need Not Eat, maybe even Supply Bonus 1. And thinking of them... there should probably be medium camel cavalry just for the thematic aspect, and to add something fantastical. Perhaps even make them sacred? Battle camels that spit poison! lol

Yeah and gotta have the assassins, I had at least two-three types in there including the courtesan. She has a poison knife, of course. But I also liked my Court Eunuch with strangulation and maybe Instill Uprising on him.

Court Eunuch:

"The Eunuch has grown up in the confines of the courts of the shieks and princes. Rising in rank through poison, assassination, and intrigue, they become much larger than normal men through their appetites, both for food and the cruel and unsavory practices of the courts. Their great size and bulbous bodies belie their surprising strength and speed, and they are quite fleet of foot. Survivalists by nature, they care only for themselves and never lead troops."

Gold 180? ---------- Resources 3
Hp 19 (Size 3) ----- Strength 15
Protection 3? (Robes and Leather Cap) ----- Attack 11
Morale 13 ---------- Defense 10
Magic Resistance 12 ----- Precision 10
Encumbrance 3 ---- Move 2/12
Leadership 0

Weapons: Strangulation - Strength, Defense, Reach all 0, Attack 1. Always attacks head, OR Armor Piercing. Once it hits it will always hit every round thereafter. Equipping a weapon removes this ability.
Armor: Robes, Leather Cap

Spy with Instill Uprising, Stealth 10, Glutton 2, Assassin, Heat Resistance 50, Wasteland Survival

Re: Ideas for 1001 Arabian Nights-themed nations
 

I don't think Blood would be thematic, they weren't into sacrifices to the best of my knowledge. I'm not sure heat resistance is so appropriate either, or reduce it to 25. Certainly make them Heat 1 or 2.

I think they should have some decently armoured troops. Some pretty average infantry with spears and shields and some cavalry with lance and shields, both with armour no better than chainmail. Archers on both foot and horseback should have composite bows. They could also have militia-quality ghazi troops, border raiders with light armour and axes or clubs.

They'd arrive in MA, in LA they could be more like the Turks, mostly similar but with heavier armour, and less Heat.

Re: Ideas for 1001 Arabian Nights-themed nations
 

National summons are easy; you have Marids, Ifrit, Shaitan, Ghuls, and Jann.

I was thinking they should have fire and earth with minors in air and death. Hidden in Sand should be something they should be able cast out of the box or with randoms.

One big problem is that horse archers are awful in Dominions 3. Even with composite bows they will be too expensive for what they do, and there's no Parthian Shot built into the game. Might be better to go the LA C'tis route and have some incredible capital only swordsmen, but just average recruit everywhere units.

It's important to separate out the eras. The Arabian Nights theme seems like it would be EA. Would 11-13th century saracen warriors and assassins be MA? After the fall of Alamut and the arrival of Marco Polo, the Mongols have a heavy influence and the "Arabian Nights" theme doesn't really apply. If that's LA, it would be largely divergent nation.

Re: Ideas for 1001 Arabian Nights-themed nations
 

Is it just me or is half of the stuff you all are mention basically abysia? I always felt that they were loosely based on the middle east. Personally I would prefer a LA turkish nation than a MA arab one, or maybe one of each hmmmm. I do not think they are "fantasy" enough to be in EA personally. They didnt emerge into the world until "MA" anyhow.

Re: Ideas for 1001 Arabian Nights-themed nations
 

the Whirling Dervish is actually a priest, not a warrior. A priest-mage would be more appropriate for this Persian archetype; probably with air, earth, astral, and death magic paths. The 'whirling' adjective is a reference to the spiritual dance they perform.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dervish
http://www.dankphotos.com/whirling/

Re: Ideas for 1001 Arabian Nights-themed nations
 

Very interesting and a good point Omni, but let's not forget the mythology of Magic: The Gathering, either. Whirling Dervish or any unit doesn't necessarily have to be their historical equivalent. It's often more fun to mix it up and take some artistic liberties!

In my opinion, the name Whirling Dervish deserves some play as a badass melee unit. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Ideas for 1001 Arabian Nights-themed nations
 

Firstly, to Renojustin:
Well, MtG's ideas are strange to say the least. However, there were at least 2 fantasy strategy games with strong Nomad faction of Arabo-Persian kind. I mean Master of Magic (of course!) & Age of Wonder. As for melee unit - ghazi will probably be fine name for these!
-- Historical near-OT warning -- http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif
Actually, Arabs of early era often used melee infantry (which we can know from Byzantium military textbooks), fighting in falanx-like formation. Their military is also often depicted riding 2 on 1 horse (which was actually a way to transport foot archers, & can be translated to Dom3 engine by having said archers with map move 3). What they didn't had are composite bows, at least of Mongolian or Turkish quality, so their early cavalry should probably have just shortbows. Also, Arabian cavalry preferred melee (charge) attacks, which led to their defeat by Frankish heavy cavalry of Carl Martell.
The main "fantasy races" in folklore of the region were often named as "daw, jihn, ghul, and peri", in that order, at least in Persian sources (I have no English version, so probably spelling may differ). Daw were servitor race, relatively stupid, but strong and able to shapechange. Jihn we know. Ghul were maneaters with some magic skills, but often depicted as having no armsor legs. Peri were a race similar to Dominions Vans/Thuatha, but, according to Persians "made by Creator not from clay, but from fire", their women were said to be most beautiful & they lived in their own cities.
At the time of Crusades we see appearance of Hashishiin mentioned above. Also, at that time Arabians began use of Turkish mercenaries & slave warriors, which introduced their composite bows (though these also were not "light cavalry", being armored in chain mail!). As war against non-beleivers became less popular among civilised citizens, the special ghazi were introduced - they lived in their training camps at the borders and helped to defend these against Frankish barbarians (i.e., Crusaders http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ).
Later still, Turks mentioned above became rulers in the region. The best known is, of course, Osman Empire with its Janissaries and Sipahi. (Mongol influence I never heard of, unless you count that Tamerlan actually saved Constantinopolis by crushing Bayazid the Lighning's army at Ancara... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif )
---end of near-OT--- http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
According to this I would make first era based on lightly-armored troops, supported by recruitable members of genie races. The medium period will include medium-armored horse archers, sacred ghazi & probably some armored infantry, though the latter was not numerous. Plus sacred Assassins, of course! The late period should include mail-armored cavalry and Janissaries of Osmans. Of course, heat preferrence, as was already mentioned. Camel caravans I would make recruitable animals with negligable combat ability but providing supplies. As for eunuch assasins - unfortunately, Dominions engine doesn't allow poisoned coffee as weapon... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
I would also move this discussion into Mods area unless official version is going to be produced soon... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Ideas for 1001 Arabian Nights-themed nations
 

Good post, Wrana! It was my understanding that the Mongol "influence" was to break up the hashashin as an organized force and relegate them to independent assassins for hire, bandits, or dissolve their members into more standard military (paramilitary?) orders. So basically somewhere in the timeline the assassin concept would either go away or the assassins would be inferior or lose sacred status or whatever they had in an earlier age.

However, I must admit my understanding of that time period is somewhere on the "wikipedia" level, and not the level of legitimate knowledge or understanding.

Re: Ideas for 1001 Arabian Nights-themed nations
 

I'd start with one age, and I think EA would be best to really fit 1001 night stuff, high magic potential.

Maybe fashion it a bit like LA patala, humans ruled by magic beings is nice, the magic beings also being the sacreds.

I'd love to help but I'm no good with graphics so I doubt I can be of much use unless you want to let me make the stats etc http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Ideas for 1001 Arabian Nights-themed nations
 

Thanx, sector24. Yes, losing of assasins' sacred status in late era would probably be in order, though I also have few knowledge in history of these organizations. I'll probably find something out, though. (and Mongols should also probably get a MA faction of their own, but to correctly depict their army organization we would probably need additional commands... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif)
To Aezeal: I'd probably start on this when my Bogarus splitting mod will be finished at last. For now, it requires finding out most balance issues, bribing some artistically inclined friends for graphics and - maybe - adding some few units. In any case, help in resolving balance issues will be appreciated. And if you really want to help, you may begin with reading Arabo-Persian folklore... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Ideas for 1001 Arabian Nights-themed nations
 

Sacred assassins aren't really useful, other than being a bit cheaper on upkeep. They can't bless themselves during an assassination, so there's really little point.

Priest-assassins, on the other hand...

Re: Ideas for 1001 Arabian Nights-themed nations
 

Completely agree. I was going to post this just now.

Re: Ideas for 1001 Arabian Nights-themed nations
 

not to much folklore just do things which are most appealing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

EA: nomads (desert dwelling) ruled by Djinni etc

general nomad stats
prefer heat 1
normals stats except for: attack skill, defense skill: 12, MR: 11)
wasteland survival
all infantry strat move 2 (cavalry strat move 3 (maybe camels only 2) and carpets as all flying creatures)

Troops
Nomad warrior (scimitar, chaff)
Nomad horse warrior (light cavalry, no lance, scimitar)
Nomad horse archer (ligth cavalry, short bow)
Nomad camel rider (medium cavalry; supply bonus 2; no lance, scimitar)
Whirling dervish warrior (2 attacks, medium infantry, high attack/defense skill)
Whirling dervish rider (2 attacks, medium cavalry, high attack/defense skill)
Whirling dervish warrior on flying carpet (2 attacks, medium infantry, high attack/defense skill, flying)

Roc rider: flying large creature relative high HP, strength etc, leaves roc when rider is killed

Djinn sacred troop, magic being, flying
Jann sacred troop, magic being, ethereal; cap only

Commanders
Nomad scout; mounted scout, map move 3
Nomad Wazir; 0 command, 2 S, researcher mainly (sage like)
Nomad Sheik; commander
Efriti sacred commander, magic being, F3E1, flying
Marid sacred commander, magic being, A3S1, flying
Efriti Sultan commander, magic being F3E3A1H1 ?100%FEAS; cap only, flying
Marid Grand-Wazir commander, magic being A3S3E1F1H2, 100% FEAS, 10% S, flying; cap only

weaknesses: only horse archers, weak priest, no heavy infantry or cavalry
Strength: strong magic, strong sacreds

To be continued

Note
assassin saved for MA/LA
courtesan if needed probably LA, maybe MA
MA/LA no nomads any more
MA/LA not ruled by the magic beings anymore, maybe a few weaker amongst the commanders in MA, certainly not as sacred troops, maybe sacred summons though, the dervish could remain as sacreds then (their ancient and sacred "desert roots)
LA probably only as summons

no death or blood this age

PM I only wanted one of the sacred troops to be recruitable everywhere (the weakest I guess flying is weaker than etherealness right?)

Re: Ideas for 1001 Arabian Nights-themed nations
 

maybe they could have a special unit like a water diviner that search wates site as a level 9 water mage

Re: Ideas for 1001 Arabian Nights-themed nations
 

hmm I had watermages in my draft but in the end I would have to agree that desert =/ water.. and I don't think waterdivination is that easy to do, not as usefull if you have way to spend the gems

Re: Ideas for 1001 Arabian Nights-themed nations
 

Won't anyone think of the eunuchs?!

re:diviner
 

i mean a low cost unit with no magic paths that is an expert in desert life: search water site like he is a water mage, maybe have a chance of give a water gem eery month have wasteland survival and give some supply

Re: re:diviner
 

Mid-level, summon that has huge supply bonus and produces water gems would be rather nifty. It could also be given high gold cost, so that the you'd have to pay for the gems... Rather awesome idea! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: re:diviner
 

te eunuchs don't really appeal to me for desert warrior, maybe MA/LA when I imagine the race to be more golden city, a bit more decent ... fabled bagdad style, harems, eunuch elite guards maybe.. certainly not as assasins though.

Endo's idea is nice it won't be that overpowered since you don't have any generic water casters/forgers it must be a summons though no recruitable high upkeep wouldn't be neccesary clams dont'ahve upkeep either. It'd have to be vulnerable though..

but pplz plz give feedback on my race as proposed

Re: re:diviner
 

My only concern is that the nation doesn't have any powerful end game magic. No blood, no death, very little astral. Plus having 1 astral on an expensive commander can be a liability against a real astral nation.

It might not be a problem considering the mages are extremely powerful, just something to consider.

Re: re:diviner
 

no real powerfull endgame magic but some of the more powerfull mages cap only and IMHO pretty strong magic not capital only.. I'm not that into EA though but IMHO A3 and F3 sacred casters in all castles make for strong battle magic. Those casters can benefit from blesses are themsselves pretty strong (I don't think they will have less than 20 HP and decent defense skill and some other effects fitting genies. and not much magic paths to pay for, they will be relatively cheap) Do they need more strength?

Re: re:diviner
 

Dont'some background searching made me scratch the no-water mages
marids are definately tied to water...

BTW astral is strong end-game true
but also in the levels most mages get?? is astral 3 considered strong for end game?

Re: re:diviner
 

Marids actually aren't tied to water as far as mythology goes. They were linked to water sometime in the 80s or so, probably in some Dungeons & Dragons monster manual. It probably comes from latin 'mare', sea, which has nothing to do with the etymology of Marid...

If you read it from the Wikipedia article, check out the discussion page.

P.S. I only know this because I was already corrected once in these forums. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: re:diviner
 

and on my astral question can you help me there?

Re: re:diviner
 

Imo Astral 3 is right up there, even in EA.

Re: re:diviner
 

Sorry, but I'm not that good when it comes to balancing, so don't take these as word of god or anything.


Being able to mass S3 mages would be very powerful, at least (Starshine Skullcap + Light of the Northern star == mass soul slay/enslave mind).

I think the other big use for astral is Ring of Sorcery/Wizardry, which need S5 and S6.
Having access to Starshine Skullcap and Crystal Coin, I doubt the nation needs too high Astral to start with, as long as one of the Earth mages has access to Astral 1 via randoms. Nomad Wazirs can forge them Starshine Skullcap, then the Earth/Astral mage forges Crystal Coin, and then even empowerment would probably be worth it.

I just realized that Marid Wazir with Air random can forge two Air boosters, and Efriti Sultan with Fire random can forge Flaming Helmet, and Efriti Sultan with Air random with those boosters has F4A4 required to forge the Magic Lamp and get the Jinn. Nice work there!

Re: re:diviner
 

Well I kinda think the Grand-Wazirs should eb able to preform wishes.. they are genies... maybe give them 6x 10% S random http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

it's a SMALL chance of getting one able to cast wish.. but still..

avarage grand wazir would have S 5 though.. so I guess that is.... way to overpowered http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

pics
 

how about these for efriti and efriti sultans?

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...f%20Efriti.gif

Re: pics
 

Not bad, but I'd suggest that the sultan raises the sword and the sword-arm instead of lowering. Now the movement is all in the wrist; if you raise the whole arm it gives an illusion of greater movement.

Dominions also supports normal transparency in targa files, so you can actually make the sparks and/or the flames slightly transparent. You don't have to use it, of course, but I found it useful when I did a silhouette of a phoenix inside a fire.

Re: pics
 

I must admit I didn't draw this myself.. I took some very large picture and just downsized it... they original is totally unrecognizable but the flamy stuff still looks nice to me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

I'm not that into drawing as I said before.. I prefer to do the numbers... if others can help me with the rest of the unitsprites I'd be very very gratefull http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

some notes
 

Mounted scout is good idea (though it won't use its MV 3 at enemy territory, of course).
On water mages, etc.: they will probably appear at MA/LA, as Berberian Corsairs were famous enough and terrorized Mediterranean up till 19th century!
At MA/LA nomads must remain (they did, after all!), but become no longer mainstay troops. I would make basic nomads just slightly stronger than militia, and accordingly cheaper than indeps infantry/cavalry, to make them massable. I don't think that to make human troops with higher stats "just because" is such a great idea. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image.../firedevil.gif
On eunuchs - certainly not in early era; also, we already have assassins in MA (& yes, I know that sacred assassin should get a bless or his sacred status is wasted http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ), while using him as spy is just about as ridiculous as is the case of FFA (who won't be able to notice such a "spy"?!http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image.../firedevil.gif). If we could make them useful in some other way, such as reducing unrest, or research without magic, it would be much better. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Courtesans, on the other hand... are completely out of question http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif - there was no such tradition in the Middle East! Wife of harem could hold much actual power, but she would need to have MV 0 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif & have some beneficial effect in friendly territory (healing, for example). Female thieves were also known, but they were not courtesans - just Thieves of Bagdad who happened to be female. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif And regarding thieves - in Persian region at least they were often hired by powers that be to provide policework - interesting twist for MA, isn't it?
Another probability for early age would be a travelling poet - these were considered somewhat holy and able to influence geniekind.. Here we also HAVE a possibility for national spy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif - though only in EA (by MA some kind of Thief of Bagdad should replace them in this respect).
And if somebody wants to know what I think about double-scimitar wielders... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif well, I included some in my own mod.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif they just not in style of early Arabs (apprentices of Alamut is something else again, of course! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif )

Re: some notes
 

Eunuch with patrol bonus that seems to fit
I agree with no courtesan.. they'd be useless anyway
MA scout could be a thief.. or even better LA more decadent

You want a bard in EA.. I must admit I've not used that many slots but IMHO the nation is pretty strong with this magic and the sacreds I'm thinking off..

Can you do some of the art work for regular troops? I'm busy with the genies and already I'm in over my head even though they are supposed to be somewhat blurry...

I'll make some and throw them in here for anyone to improve
(for marid I'm adapting celestial masters.. I want them as stiff statesmen.. and blueish http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif)

Re: re:diviner
 

Hmm of course there already is a djinn so I need to get my base troops another name.. which is a shame really bur the summons is still stronger than my most powerfull ones so fits in nicely really

Re: re:diviner
 

I'm trying to run this DM file and it says there is something worng with armor.. but I can't see it.

Help with this (and any other errors encountered would be appreciated.

Re: Ideas for 1001 Arabian Nights-themed nations
 

PS could this thread be transferred to the mods forum.. it's really getting something for that place

Re: Ideas for 1001 Arabian Nights-themed nations
 

Djinn by any other name? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif I've already provided some, and possibly will come with more if I can eat through Shah-name (or something) fast enough..
As for armors - there was a thread somewhere which noted that armors can't be linked to by number - only by name. So try to rewrite it so - at least in my Bogarus mod this worked -and it uses 4 new armors.
And yes, it definitely belongs to Mods section now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
OT - By the way, I've forgotten how to make thread favorite, though I've done it once... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif Could somebody remind me? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Ideas for 1001 Arabian Nights-themed nations
 

It's at the very bottom of the page, even under the text area of reply.

Re: Ideas for 1001 Arabian Nights-themed nations
 

sola will be the last djinni it'll be sacred flying and not cap only with decent stats.. I think this nation craves for a bless strat the Jann are very decent troops with relatively few HP and armor but with etherealness (I was doubting to make it glamour but since I used wraithlord to convert them they look ethereal http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif, and glamour si considered stronger right? wouldn't want to make new vans..

Re: Ideas for 1001 Arabian Nights-themed nations
 

more genies, adapted from existing units

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...e%20genies.jpg

Re: Ideas for 1001 Arabian Nights-themed nations
 

Thanks, Endoperez! I knew I've seen it somwhere! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Ideas for 1001 Arabian Nights-themed nations
 

I've recreated the thread in mod forum.. not all replies but my post aabove has incorporated most replies in some way