How do you define a NAP?
 

How do you define a non-aggression pact? Are 3 and 5 turn NAPs the most common types? From the general ideas to the nitty gritty details like dominion spread to things like moving stealthy units around. I'm wondering if there consensus on what a NAP means.

Re: How do you define a NAP?
 

non agression pact, so nothing hostile http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif no attacking or casting rituals on someones lands, and no stealthy preachers. preaching within your own lands and building temples and the like is all fine. as for moving stealthy units, you're probably safest letting the person know you're going to do it so they don't get too ticked off if something goes wrong. and that way they can let you know which provinces to avoid (if they're patrolling or have high PD or something).

Re: How do you define a NAP?
 

Does NAP 3 mean that a 3 turn notification is required before an attack or does it mean no aggression allowed for the next 3 turns? There is a bit of confusion on this point in one of my games.

Re: How do you define a NAP?
 

It makes sense to specify this. I assume that a NAP is for a set number of turns (helpful to set out the turn it will expire at the beginning) unless we agree to, say, a "3-turn warning NAP" where 3 turns of warning must be given before an attack, but the NAP will otherwise stand for the entire game.

You could, of course, do something like a 3 turn warning NAP that will last no less than 15 turns or something, but generally unless otherwise specified it seems reasonable to assume that a NAP is for a set amount of turns.

Re: How do you define a NAP?
 

I believe most people here would assume a "3 turn NAP", would mean 3 turns of notice before an attack, otherwise lasting throughout the game.

This is why I try to spell out the terms when I make one. That, and it allows me to be at least a little in character...

Re: How do you define a NAP?
 

Is this the most common type of NAP? I am trying to see if i can approach a definition of a "standard NAP" just to make things less confusing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: How do you define a NAP?
 

That's my understanding.

Still, I try to always spell it out to avoid confusion.

I'd actually like to see more types of agreements become common. Alliances to attack someone are common, but what about defensive pacts, maybe against just one enemy?

Re: How do you define a NAP?
 

If you wanted to spell out all the special types of stealth units that you would want to prevent from entering your territory with a NAP what would they be? So far, I can think of:

Preacher or Heretic units
Assassination
Seduction or Corruption units. (Corruption is like seduction, but i think only 1 unit has it.)
Stone Idols
Bane Venom Charms

Rlyeh sneaking Void Spectres.
Spies causing unrest.
Pan/Bogarus units causing unrest.
Feeblemind/Misfortune from artifacts.

Have I missed anything?

Thanks vfb. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I have added your ideas into one copy-paste-able list.

Re: How do you define a NAP?
 

Mundane assassinations are going to cause a battle where your nation is clearly identified. It's an obvious breach of the NAP.

A few you missed are:

Rlyeh sneaking Void Spectres.
Spies causing unrest.
Pan/Bogarus units causing unrest. (Well, this could be obvious too.)
Feeblemind/Misfortune from artifacts.

Re: How do you define a NAP?
 

I'm actually of the opinion that anything that is anonymous and thus can't be traced back to your nation is fair play. We are talking about becomming the one true god here after all. Sometimes you just have to dirty your hands. Erm, I mean the hands of some mad, rogue, underling you've never heard of. Of course, most of the time you are friendly with someone you have a NAP with and thus there is no reason to bombard them with nasty spells, but if the situation calls for it, I don't see why you'd refrain from using them.

Of course, the flip side of this is that if the target of these spells suspects it's you who cast those spells, he probably will be mildly annoyed with you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: How do you define a NAP?
 

I would assume a time means that much notice to break it. I would not object to stealth units passing through that do not do harm by their mere existence. I would expect permission to be sought for sending through anything else, including a stealth force that might accidentally take a province.

I would figure it means no hostile rituals even if anonymous.

Re: How do you define a NAP?
 

While my MP experience is limited, I have so far seen in effect: Temp NAP for 3 turns after first border contact, Standard 3 turn NAP's, 10 turn NAP's with shared intel, and NAP until X players remain in the game.

If scouting is not specified, I tend to specify scouts only, no other stealth action.

While I never specify anything about temples, if someone was pushing some negative dominion (deadly like Ermor or C'tis or just plain bad scales) I'd be pretty displeased, and make it clear.

Same goes for rituals, never specify anything. But it tends to be pretty obvious pretty quickly who casts what. All one has to figure out is means, motive, and opportunity. The easiest method is who benefits most (this works equally well applied to politics, government, corruption, etc).

Re: How do you define a NAP?
 

I would suggest a breach of NAP as anything that causes you loss of units, income, territory, gems, and domination (except by border expansion). Although as someone said above, I'd consider building temples and preaching along the border that pushed back your Dom grounds to complain.

Someone sneaking their way through your lands would therefore be basically legit unless specifically demanded. A sneaking unit that was accidentally discovered and was stompy enough to defeat the PD or otherwise harm should merit an apology and compensation for lost income and gems, or be considered a breach of NAP.

* * *

One thing that happened in one of our n00b games was that someone signed a 3-turn NAP and thought it meant no attacks for three turns, the other no attacking without a 3-turn warning. That caused a bit of a fuss. Since then, I've generally specified which I mean.

Re: How do you define a NAP?
 

I more or less stick to agema's definition, and I also consider massing large amount of troops (100, 300+ depending on the map) near a border a possible breach of NAP.

Re: How do you define a NAP?
 

I also generally specify that only scout are allowed to sneak through, though I'll usually grant permission if requested.

Using the NAP period to fill my lands with spies, assassins and/or stealthy troops to incite/kill/attack deep within my kingdom on the turn the NAP expires is something I wish to avoid. Obviously, if I don't find them I can't claim the deal is broken, but if I do...

Re: How do you define a NAP?
 

I require that I am imformed if something 'stompy' is crossing my lands without
being set on 'retreat'. I also will complain about a wall of temples being
built on my border, or about blood sacrifice. As a matter of fact, I am
about to cancel a NAP because of that. (not break it, although I was tempted)

But in a game where I have inherited a low dominion from the previous player,
building temples on a border where your dominion is already one province deep
into my lands is clearly a provocation.

Re: How do you define a NAP?
 

In one of my games there is "NAP until player X is dead" interesting variant I think.

Re: How do you define a NAP?
 

When i give someone a nap, they can rest assured that no spell, whether it can be traced to me or not, is being cast on them by me. I broadly define non aggression pact as doing nothing hostile towards that race.

I like to think my pretender can ascend even without my "getting my hands dirty." Get your hands dirty enough, you get a bad rep and one day players may not make a nap with you, and you may find yourself the 1 vs. the 2 that starts every game.

Re: How do you define a NAP?
 

I have fun playing MP for a bit. Then the various NAPs like this turn me off the game again for a little while.

Eventually I forgot how incestuous MP games are and a I am a glutton for punishment once again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.

Re: How do you define a NAP?
 

Incestuous? I suppose that is a pretty good description.

Re: How do you define a NAP?
 

No joke one EA game we had gotten down to about a dozen players and 8-10 of them were in an alliance. Not NAP, but alliance. I was R'lyeh and the other guy not in the alliance was Niefelheim.

One of them declared war on me and the next turn pretty much all my provinces was hit by rituals from everybody on the map.

Eventually I think the game was left unfinished because they would not attack one another. It just staled until it was taken down. Funny stuff.

Re: How do you define a NAP?
 

Foodstamp, that was just bad diplomacy from those players.. the idea must remain to become the sole remaining pretender

THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!

automatic background sounds when this sentence is spoken:
~I am immortal I have inside me blood of kings.
I have no rival no man can be my equal.
Take me to the future of your world.
Born to be kings.princes of the universe.~

~who wants to live forever~