Dark Elves?
 

Given that the lst time I did one of these threads, the community got an excellent Chaos Hordes mod (thanks, panpiper,) this is a thread about a mod creating the warhammer dark elves in dominions. I don't have time to post stats, etc. right now, but here are some graphics ideas.

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/9536/previewra6.gif
edit: The dark ones are finished. The others still ave some light bits on them- those ones wer photos of minis, the finished ones are more... original. (don't ask.)

Re: Dark Elves?
 

Nice. Are they photos of actual miniatures, resized?

Re: Dark Elves?
 

Nice. Soon I can kick JK's Lizards army and JO's Skavens in dom3 as well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Dark Elves?
 

Yep.

Re: Dark Elves?
 

Yes, they are just miniatures that were recoloured/sized. I usually draw by hand, but, well... Last time I tried that (albeit for a HUGE mod), I sort of got tired...

The corsair needs to be reposed, 'cause he's doing that crazy "stare wildly into the omniscient deity's face as ha watches the battle" thing.

Now, for the actual mod:

Dark Elf, WH:
WS 4 BS4 S3 T3 W1 A1 I5* Ld 8 M5
Light armour, spears/repeating crossbows.
Hatred of high elves

*Generally, Dark Elves are thought of as even faster than High Elves. With the new "speed of asuryan" giving all high elves 'always strike first,' I'm going to assume DE will receive something similar.

Dark Elf, Dominions:
S 10
Hp 9
Mr 10
Prec 12
Att 12
Def 13
Ap 2/14
Mor 12

There are some serious issues with the equipment- for example, a repeater x-bow fires twice as rapidly as an ordinary bow, with the same range and killing power. It is as accurate as a human (prec 10) archer. Nratt2 looks really odd with ranged weapons, but the other option is to make them essentially bows. Opinions?

Sea dragon cloaks offer protection against only shooting, so I guess they'll be prot 0, decent parry shields.

Dark magic also poses some minor problems- death is appropriate, but not much else. I was thinking some air or astral or even water (also, with the slanesh influence...)
Blood could work in theory as well.

Infantry:
Warriors, two kinds (x-bow and spear/shield)
Corsairs (Two weapons, sea dragon cloak, light armour)
Witch Elves (Two weapons, really good combat troops, berserk, unarmoured.)
Shades (stealthy, high precision, x-bows and swords.)
Executioners (Heavy infantry, unique great sword (draich,) has actual armour)
Black Guard (Halberd, high stats, maybe sacred, cap only, expensive)
Now, how about killing blow or eternal hatred?

Cavalry:
Dark Riders (Fast, spears and x-bows. Die easily, maybe stealthy)
Cold One Knights (Slower, deadlier. High stats. Knights on lizards, basically.)


Crazies:
Hydras (Fire Breathing many headed war beasts. Probably via spell or a beastmaster summon.)
Reaper bolt thrower (Err… Nratt 6 heavy crossbows. Not sure about this one.)
Manticores (Flying beastie with good stats, fear. summon)
Black Dragons (run for your life, summon)
Harpies (puny and weak, but they fly)

Leaders:
Sorceresses- threeish points of magic, death 2 and something else 1. Dark magic spells will basically kill stuff a lot (Doombolt, Black Horror, Soul Stealer, etc.)

High Sorceresses- sixish points of magic. Seriously considering D4, something else 2.

Nobles- Good stats, good leaders.

Highborne-Really good stats, excellent leaders.

Assassin- Really Really good stats (how the heck do I represent WS9 I10 ??!!), assassin, stealthy.

Beastmaster- Tolerable stats, can summon war beasts. Don’t think I’ll mount it on a manticore.

Druchii Anointed- Really Really Very good stats, D2 magic, summoned. Armed with Lifetaker and Draich of Dark Power.


That’s it, I think.

Edit: Updated preview. I actually like my anointed (top right.)

Re: Dark Elves?
 

Yoohoo http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Now I'm eagerly waiting for this mod to develop.
Hurray Valandil.

So what's the status on WH mods for dom?- Sombre gave us skaven and ogres so we're missing what, DE, empire and HE, dwarfes, goblins, vamps, lizardman, did I miss some?

Re: Dark Elves?
 

I really like Valandil assessment of the dark elves but I would have some suggestions. The darkelves are not the nicest race in the world with much of their society being centered around the cult of murder, with a ruling cabal of dark mages subservient to their witch king. That being said my suggestions are the following.

Dark elves should be a cold 1 race with units that are generally expensive in both gold and resources. I think Valandil has the stats down though I would be tempted to lower the strength to 9 for the base units.

Witchelves-Sacred, Berzerk +1, 2 weapons-1 dagger 1 shortsword, unarmored save possibly for a protection 1 headress.

Assassin-Sacred as well, really really good stats, poison

Sorceress-1D (210%D,S,B,W,F)

High Sorceress-Cap only. 1D 1S (410% D,S,B,W,F)

Witch Priestess-same stats and equipment as witch elves. H1 B1. Kill pop?

Hag Queen-Cap Only. weaker stats and same equipment as witch elves. H2 B2 (20%B) Old?, Kill pop?

Summons

Hydras-largely agree with you, I'm thinking they would be a death gem. conj 3.

Manticores-same as crossbreed variety. death gem. conj 4-5.

Black Dragon-very powerful. death gem. conj 8-9

Cauldron of Blood-immobile in battle, map move 1, H-3, healer. Blood cost. Construction 6.

Anointed-your idea is about right, possibly make them demons, I'm thinking blood 6-7.

Avatar-powerful SC, titan comparable stats, built in iron skin buff, Sacred, Demon, Berzerk +3, Fear. magic wise (400% B,D)

Possibly make the witch king as a unique summon though I'm more tempted to make him a pretender option given he would gamewise, be an extremely powerful mage, super combatant, mounted on a black dragon...

Heroes

Morathi-An immortal (agewise) sorceress who is the mother/lover of the witchking/pretender? and active both in the cult of murder and pleasure. Keeps immortality by bathing in original cauldron of blood. High Sorceress stats, Awe, Sacred. H-2 4D 3B 3S

Crone Hellebron- chief hag queen of cult of murder and principal rival of Morathi for witchking/pretender's? favor. extremely old. same stats as witch elves, built in magic sword that gives insanely high strength (warhammer strength 10) H-3 B-4, fear, old. mounted on manticore?

Hotek (I like him in terms of background, he gives DE limited access to earth) A former highpriest of a forge god Vaul. He stole Vaul's hammer upon the ascendancy of the witchking/pretender? and swore his loyalty to him. weak stats, sacred, blind, horror marked? forge bonus, E-3 B-1.

Re: Dark Elves?
 

Good call, I forgot the cauldron of blood. It needs "onebattlespell" Touch of Madness or somesuch. I'll trawl through the grimoire soon.

Anointed are demons, yes.

I can't think of a Dark Elven avatar? What is this, an avatar of the bloody handed one, or Slaanesh, or something else?

All Dark elves are VERY long-lived (Morathi, Malekith, Helleborn are 5000+ years old...)

I don't think the Witch elves should be sacred, really. They're just too common for that, IMHO- they're a core choice. Black Guard are 0-1 Rare, and just about hte most elite infantry in the world (post revision.

DE manticores are not really like the crossbreeding ones... but maybe, for sake of clarity, they'll stay that way.

I was going to do cold 2- Naggaroth does mean "the land of chill," and the archetypal DE spell is "Chill Wind." (Nagaeryth of the Uttercold, if you're a loon.)

...Spells of the Druchii...

Chill Wind:
WH- 24", D6 S3, wounded units cannot shoot next phase.
Dom- AoE 1, low damage, fatigue secondary. Cold damage.

Doom Bolt:
WH- 18", D6 S5
Dom- Something along hte lines of an AoE 1 shadow bolt.

Word of Pain:
WH- 24", target unit is WS1 BS1, remains in play.
Dom- Maybe an easily negated AoE 3 blindness

Soul Stealer:
WH- 12", each model in target unit takes an S3 hit. Wounds dealth given to the sorceress.
Dom- AoE 3 low damage drain life.

Dominon:
WH- Prevent one action of target unit next turn.
Dom- Confusion maybe, or even Enslavement. Not sure.

Black Horror:
WH- 24", Strength Test or 1 wound, no save. Uses the big template (5") Units hurt tkae panic tests.
Dom- Not totally sure. Pretty powerful (its on a 12+ in WH) so maybe even a small area death on failed mr, with a terror "nextspell" effect?

Anyways...
This mod is much more fun to make than wading through ten thousand demons for Chaos, so I might actually finish.
Strangely, I play Orcs, and havn't even thought about doing them.

Also, updating preview again.

Re: Dark Elves?
 

Why an avatar of khaine of course (though depending on pretender, simply an avatar of murder) as an expensive level 9 blood summon of doom. Though like the vermin lord, consigned to the background and warhammer rpg, these beasts are quite frankly really cool.

I understand your point about the black guard as they are the elite of the elite in the darkelf army book and warhammer does a poor job of translating what their strengths should be. However they aren't really "holy" units per say whereas witchelves, being in service to the cult of murder, are comparable to flagellents and vestals. It just seems very thematic to have the cauldron of blood mass bless them before they go screaming into battle. It also differentiates them from the armored 2 hand weapon equipped corsairs. Though if you make them non-sacred I would still keep the healing effect of the cauldron to mitigate the injuries sustained by going into battle unarmored.

I'm aware all dark elves are long lived, but fluff wise crone helleborn is one of the few individuals showing signs of it and having hag queens be aged as a game balance in the case of sacred witchelves being used as jaguar warrior surrogates.

Anyway, I'm sure you will maintain the usual high degree of quality. I'm just giving my 2-cents.

Re: Dark Elves?
 

Some notes:
Witch elves were repeatedly named sacred in Army Books. And idea of Cauldron blessing them is nice. I, though, planned Hag Queen on Cauldron to be made commander and priest of higher level than usual.
Dragons in DE army are not independent. I would make Prince on dragon recruitable (though VERY costly), with Dragon acting for itself if Prince is heavily wounded (I know this is approximation, but I think it better than flying Dragons led by commander in Winged boots).
To Valandil:
As I understand it, Speed of Assurian was given to HE especially to make them best in something, i.e., to give their army an unique strength. So no, Druchii won't in all likeness get "something similar". Though I've heard that they are going to get poisoned weapons for most troops... To translate their still high Initiative, I plan to use high Defense (+2 to Attack value as of now). And regarding repeating crossbow I plan to make it #att 2 with limited ammo (for now it has 10 in my list, as actual Chinese weapon had, but as bows were given only ammo 12 in Dominions, it would probably need to get less - or get Attack penalty to reflect WH Multishot penalty).
As for aging - note that Malekith, Morathi and Hellebron are all mighty sorcerers, as are all High Elf characters known as very long-lived (read: Ritual of Youth).

Re: Dark Elves?
 

Are you also making a mod then Wrana?

Re: Dark Elves?
 

Re: Lurker
Now, this is interesting about the avatar. I happen to own a black avatar of Khaine that I converted, but it was for my 40k DE army. I will think about including one in this mod.

Re: Wrana
Am I stepping on your toes? I wasn't aware that you were creating a DE mod for dominions. (Are you?)

Hellebron is not a mighty sorcerer per se, having no magic, but I get your point. Malekith is essentially preserved by the armour of midnight, while Morathi, Hellbron, et al are preserved by the cauldrons.

Interesting note about the mass poisons, I will ignore that for this mod, mostly because of the #secondaryeffect wierdness on poisoned missile weapons- x-bows would simply be too lethal.

The sacredness of witch elves is valid based on background, but you have to consider the prevalence of them. I they were 0-1, or even rare, I could see making them sacred, but as they stand, it seems qestionable at best, and unduly limiting. Perhaps, though, you are right about the Black Guard. They are not holy warriors per se, I will grant that. I was looking at holiness from a mechanical point of view, using it as a fine method of limiting and increasing the power of the guard (who are, after all, extremely rare.)

I'm not toattly sure about the dragons. I would have a summonable highborne on a dragon, as opposed to making them recruitable. In middle era, I do not think that mighty sc commanders are appropriate, and in order to fit with other dominions dragons, a black one has to be of an SC level.

This raises the issue of Malekith. Realistically speaking, malekith is hideously powerful (not in WH, but thats another story.) He is mounted on a great black dragon, Seraphon, protected by the armour of midnight, which essentially makes him invulnerable to mundane weapons, armed with the destroyer to kill enemy equipment, and the hand of khine to kill them, a mighty sorcerer, and a fine general. He is also tremendously skilled in combat.

The options are:
1) No Malekith. I don't like this option, because Malekith is cool
2) Malekith as hero. I don't know about this. I think he's just too powerful for this to make sense without unconscionable nerfing.
3) Malekith as pretender. Sort of fits, sort of not. Also, potential for expandy pretender of doom syndrome. (See also, Archaon complex.)
4) Leave him on foot.

Re: Dark Elves?
 

What about making Malekith like the Dominions dragons? Either powerful, footed mage OR a dragon(rider) with less magic and only natural weapons.

Re: Dark Elves?
 

to Sombre: (& Valandil, it seems)
I've begun work on one some times ago. Unfortunately, I've no great ability w/ pixelart, & this requires a lot. I've found one person who did such in past, but she is currently busy. For now, I have some Excel table with unit' etc. stats. It doesn't include special characters, as they are more difficult for converting into Dominions system (e.g., WH currently has warrior mages only as exception, while in Dominions they are the rule(z http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ); also, we usually don't use specials in play.
For now, I'll just try to download it here.

If they were 0-1, it would make sense to make them (sorry for pun http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif) capital only. They are common enough & so can be produced everywhere.
Black Guard, on the other hand, can be made capital only (as they are in WH); & they wear enough armor to make them Resource-costly... As for Eternal Hatred, it can be translated either as extrs-high Attack, or as Berserk...
And why on Earth (or WarHammer %) ) do you make WarHammer races into MA factions??!! They are surely more in style for LA... And making them recruitable doesn't need to make them cheap... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
Of course, polytheism of most WarHammer races is a problem here (at least, one of). As for being hideously powerful, he was still defeated more than once, & probably has afflictions enough to cut him down to size... And he prefers to not risk himself, which means that actually he may be not so powerful as his reputation...

Re: Dark Elves?
 

I'm still here, BTW. Just busy right now, and doing some work when I have spare time. I don't know why we put WH nations in middle era, but inertia of bad(?) ideas means that it will probably stay that way.

Frenzy=Berzerk, I think. Hatred=attack skill, most likely.

Thanks for the clarifictions, by the way. Largely agreed.

Re: Dark Elves?
 

If you'd like you can nab the cold one from the Saurus Cavalry in my lizardmen mod. You know, for the cold one knights.

Re: Dark Elves?
 

Dark Elves are my favorite WHFB army; I'll definitely keep an eye on this one.

Very nice work so far!

Re: Dark Elves?
 

Okay, after this Saturday, I should be able to finish this. Right now, I'm kinds busy working on legal proceedings (moot court,) but should be done soon. I might well steal your cold one, Sombre. Thanks for the offer.

Re: Dark Elves?
 

*bump*

*Looks around for a Dark Elves mod*. It seems a lot of the warhammer mods are running out of steam. Say it isn't so.:(

Re: Dark Elves?
 

I suppose I'll bump this up rather than make a new thread to ask, is anyone else currently working on a Dark Elves mod? If so, would said anyone be interested in a bit of cooperation?

I've currently put my planned Chaos Dwarfs on hold, and somehow ended up... making one of these, instead.

Still in the process of slapping descriptions and art on all units, and then there's the balancing part, but attached are some sorceresses (having cast Air Shield, they're not normally that blue) and a bunch of warriors for now.

Tentative troop list, anywhere:
Warriors (Two types), Crossbowmen, Witch Elves (Sacred), Corsairs, Shades (Stealth), Dark Riders
Capital:
Cold One Knight (Fear), Executioners (Sacred), Black Guard (Awe)

Commander list, anywhere:
Lordling, Noble, Highborn, Sorceress, Witch Elf Hag, Assassin, Beastmaster Apprentice, Reaver, Herald, Bloodshade
Capital:
High Sorceress, Beastmaster, Death Hag

Also summons, heroes and a pretender or two.

Magic: Air and Death for Sorceresses' Dhar, Blood for the cult of Khaine. (May add Water to the former if needed for balance, but that comes later.)

Re: Dark Elves?
 

I'm interested in Dark Elves, but my graphics skillz are seriously lacking. I'd be happy to work on the stats/balance end of things.

Cold One Knights shouldn't be cap-only.

Dark Elves should have recruitable hydrae, probably different from the existing hydra unit. (Call it Coldborn Hydra or something). Cause fear, but no poison - maybe a cold aura? (not in Warhammer, but it would be cool).

Beastmasters should be able to come mounted on a manticore.

In the army list, Lords can ride a Black Dragon - cap-only recruitable but expensive? Summons? something?

Heroes:
The earlier list was good, but Morathi should be on a black pegasus.

Summons:
Malketh on Black Dragon? (Conj9 Death summon?)
More general Black Dragon summon? (Conj6-7 Death Summon, gains a lord post summons in flavor text)
Avatar of Khaine

Pretenders:
Khaine?
They should of course have access to the Dracolich pretender

Re: Dark Elves?
 

I've been working on graphics for a Menzoberranzan mod for a while now. I have the units completed and I am half way through the commanders. Some of the sprites may crossover to Warhammer but I am not sure it would be the look you are going for. They are modified Dom3 sprites and don't look like miniatures.

I've never played anything Warhammer related, so I don't know if they are appropriate. but if the sprites may be of use to you, even as a starting point to make your sprites, I am willing to upload them.

Re: Dark Elves?
 

You can freely rip my old woodelf mod for Dominions 2 if you like, may be there something you can use:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=22406
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=22911

Granted, it's freely based on the woodelves (due to limitation of dom2). But the sprites are okay :)
Or if anyone wants to make a Woodelf mod to dom3 they can rip them too.

Re: Dark Elves?
 

Just wanted to ask if it was ok if I took you up on that? I'll be doing some modifications, but I really like a lot of your designs and I'd love to use them for the wood elf mod I'm working on now.

Re: Dark Elves?
 

Sure.

If you want a specific wood elf logo/banner I can make you one..

Re: Dark Elves?
 

http://www.imageviper.com/displayima...AthelLoren.png

Done.