Cavemen
 

Strength 17 and cost of 40gp. But useless in battle. However I seem to remember the siege formula being a bonus for strength over 10. So would cavemen a good siege army to follow your main army around or to reinforce key castles?

Re: Cavemen
 

If you like paying way over the odds for okish siegers, sure.

Re: Cavemen
 

but wasn't there something with strengthx strength for siege what would that make them compared to 10 gold strength 10 troops?

Re: Cavemen
 

Yes, they are better than one 10 gold, 10 strength trooper. No, they are not
better than four of them. They eat less, though. I like using the commanders
as early thugs. Otherwise, I do not recruit them.

Re: Cavemen
 

Cavemen - 17 str = 2.9 siege strength or 13.8 gold per siegepoint.

Basic human infantry - 10 str = 1 siege strength or 10 gold per siegepoint.

Like Tuidjy says, unless you have supply problems, never worth it, and even then, not really.

Re: Cavemen
 

They have partial cold and fire immunity. Combine them in the late game with the spells that grant your troops partial immunity and armoring spells, and you've got a crack squad of late-game troopers that can survive massive Evoking.

Re: Cavemen
 

Don't they have 8 MR ? And no armour to buff ?

Might reduce their survivability in the late game a touch.

Re: Cavemen
 

Spells like Wooden Warriors or Army of Lead give units a set armor number, so I don't think I understand your question.

And the MR 8 is a weakness, but nothing is perfect. The fact that you can use Mass Regeneration and use them with a heavy evoking strategy more than makes up for it. I mean, if you send a few thugs to attack rear you can draw MR-targetting spells off the weaker units. Its basic strategy.

Re: Cavemen
 

I just think describing them as a "crack squad" might be a bit generous.

I am not suggesting that their hitpoints and resistances aren't useful - but in the mid to late game I really like higher MR.

Re: Cavemen
 

Given the cost I still don't think they're worth it. In the late game the gold would be better spent on mages.

Re: Cavemen
 

50% fire resistance also makes them a viable counter to an early fire-9 bless rush.

Re: Cavemen
 

Except the bless troops would still muderise the hell out of them (just slightly slower) since they suck at fighting and they cost a lot. So not much of a counter.

Re: Cavemen
 

yeah, basically a totally useless troop.

Re: Cavemen
 

IIRC they are made cheaper in the upcoming patch.

Re: Cavemen
 

It's alive and it beefs cavemen

Re: Cavemen
 

Awesome! I was just about to make a better caveman mod!

I love cavemen, but they just cost too much.

Re: Cavemen
 

I love cavemen, too!
http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/phot...62728_5101.jpg

Couldn't resist, sorry...

Re: Cavemen
 

The only time I've recruited cavemen to use as thugs is to clear out junk gear that I've gotten from lucky events. I guess I could have trashed it, or thrown it on a regular commander. Just seemed cooler on the caveman.

Re: Cavemen
 

Annette, is that Ron Jeremy ina cave man suit?! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif

Re: Cavemen
 

Why yes, I believe it is. How observant!

Seriously, I really don't mean to derail the thread. But it's been tempting me all day [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Dogbone.gif[/img]

Re: Cavemen
 

/me can't help but guessing at Annette's side-jobs

Re: Cavemen
 

Oh no, the thread has been derailed! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w...inions/ron.jpg

Re: Cavemen
 

Ron has TWO bog beasts!!!

Re: Cavemen
 

That is without a doubt hilarious!

Re: Cavemen
 

I will recruit the caveman commander and outfit him with a Thunder Bow (I think that is the right one) and boots of giant strength. The thunder bow damage is based on strength so this is a good combination. Often gets one or two in the early/midgame HOF.

Re: Cavemen
 

I have done the thunder bow thing as well, but IIRC isn't his precision pretty low? I also use them to get rid of all those vine bows I get from killing AI in Sp games.

Re: Cavemen
 

Add a eye of aiming and you are up to Prec 14, cast wind Guide and your up to 19. Add a few points of exp then your up to 21 and he will get those quick. If you are going that far you might add a amulet of missile protection or a poorer choice of a bear claw talisman. Unless you are doing arrow fend. Not bad for a base 17 armor negating damage weapon that jumps to 22 with boots and 27 with the talisman. I guess you could bunch a few and add strength of giants for 31 damage. Yeah, slap a earth might on top for 35. Thats the trick. A group of 35 armor negating damage bowmen with a precision of 21. Murder to build but it would be a murder squad.

Re: Cavemen
 

sounds like my style of play: insanely inefficient, but insanely fun.

Re: Cavemen
 

I just use the bow and boots. It is just an early game move that appears to be functional. Don't want to put too many gems and/or turns into them.

Cor2 -The cavemen have a precision of 10, which is the normal archer precision.

Re: Cavemen
 

A caveman with a bear claw talisman will be nearly as hairy and manly as Ron Jeremy with two bog beasts.

Re: Cavemen
 

Now just wait for one of them to get Heroic Strength, boosting it to insane levels.

Offtopic- I saw a knight with 221(!) AP in battle. Apparently water blessed + heroic quickness.

Re: Cavemen
 

Considering efficiency, isn't it a better plan to stockpile your air gems for boosters/staff of storms ? Those bows are 5 gems each, it's quite a lot.

Re: Cavemen
 

ow you must tell Anette so she can get a screenshot of that for above her bed..

Re: Cavemen
 

Cavemen have a starting prec of 9. Thats why you need the eye of aiming, unless you empower him in nature. Which means 10 air gems not 5. Thats not counting the 10 for the cloak of arrow protection. Which makes it 20 air gems.

Efficiency? You dried up pencil pusher. Who cares if you win more games. You have lost the sheer love of adventure. Of turning myopic neanderthals into long range giant killing archers. Insanity? I spit in your general direction and shake my private parts at you.

I bet you have never even GORed a Hydra.

Stupidity? I don't know the meaning of the word.

Re: Cavemen
 

Thunder bows require 10A gems. Edi's DB indicates caveman precision is 10, but 9 is correct.

Re: Cavemen
 

Here Here! I can barley name a unit that I have not GORed! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Cavemen
 

Thanks Cor2. Have you GORed a Monster Fish and equipped it with a Fish Amulet? I have been meaning to.

Thanks Wic. However the robe is only 5 gems so we are still at 20 air gems. Plus 10 earth and 5 nature for the boots and bear t-man.

The point is .....what is the cost of fun. Don't you get board with same old same old? Sometimes neat is it's own reward. You are not doing this for a archer that can kill almost any heavy footman in one shot. You are doing this for one that could kill any heavy armored unit in one shot but prefers to shoot militia. Cause he's going to hit the one chaff in the middle of massed armor.

Re: Cavemen
 

You think you guys squander gems? Ha! I laugh at you. You sink 10-20 gems into an
archer, and think you're being wasteful. You've got nothing. Nothing, I tell you.

In the Dominions II Free for All tournament, in a very competive MP game, I
got a few of my provinces hit by multiple Exhibit As. When I started patrolling
to root them out, I unearthed Exhibit B.

Now, THAT was a waste of gems. Observe, and give the mistress her due.

Re: Cavemen
 

Just a Fish Amulet? Why don't you give the Monster Fish a Fish Amulet, and the Gift of Kurgi, for true Flying Monster Fish Madness! LA Atlantis is probably best to try this, since at least they've got some land to get blood hunting on, and a B4 bless on Arssartuts is not a complete waste. You'd probably lose the race to Const 8 in MP though.

Back to the original topic ... I'm always trying to find a good thug to give some fire bolas to. 50 shots! A little Aim, and Strength of Giants, could buff up a squad of double-fire-bola firing cavemen nicely.

Re: Cavemen
 

Oh yes, the GORed monster fish is a natural.
My favorite GOR is Eater of the Dead, when it goes ballistic hopefully its deep in enemy territory.

Flying monster fish from the neither void!

Armies of fire bola chucking cavemen!

These are things I have to try. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Cavemen
 

vfb, I stand corrected. Yes, Kurgi....it is so obvious. Now.

Fire-bolas? How could I have missed it? Double chunking at almost short bow range. Very doable.

Re: Cavemen
 

Then add boots of quickness for extra special fiery fun. Imagine the look on the other guy's face when your 10 cavemen shoot 40 fire bolas and stop a cavalry charge dead in its tracks.

Re: Cavemen
 

I was thinking the same thing, and tested Boots of Quickness with the Fire Bolas, but I couldn't seem to get them to fire more than once each. Maybe they just shoot two at the same square?

Re: Cavemen
 

They'd have to be pretty darn accurate...

Re: Cavemen
 

I turned debug on, and here's what I found. The graphic always just shows two bolas flying in the air.

Sometimes there aren't enough AP to throw both sets of bolas:

blastsqr: unr247 x23 y14 aoe0 dmg0 eff2 spc1073741825 as-1 al0^M
blastsqr: unr247 x23 y14 aoe0 dmg65536 eff11 spc1073741824 as-1 al0^M
blastsqr: unr247 x22 y14 aoe0 dmg0 eff2 spc1073741825 as-1 al0^M
blastsqr: unr247 x22 y14 aoe0 dmg65536 eff11 spc1073741824 as-1 al0^M

And sometimes some of the bolas will hit the same square:

blastsqr: unr247 x22 y16 aoe0 dmg0 eff2 spc1073741825 as-1 al0^M
blastsqr: unr247 x22 y16 aoe0 dmg65536 eff11 spc1073741824 as-1 al0^M
blastsqr: unr247 x22 y16 aoe0 dmg0 eff2 spc1073741825 as-1 al0^M
blastsqr: unr247 x22 y16 aoe0 dmg65536 eff11 spc1073741824 as-1 al0^M
blastsqr: unr247 x24 y15 aoe0 dmg0 eff2 spc1073741825 as-1 al0^M
blastsqr: unr247 x24 y15 aoe0 dmg65536 eff11 spc1073741824 as-1 al0^M
blastsqr: unr247 x22 y15 aoe0 dmg0 eff2 spc1073741825 as-1 al0^M
blastsqr: unr247 x22 y15 aoe0 dmg65536 eff11 spc1073741824 as-1 al0^M

Even if you're throwing just 2 bolas, they sometimes hit the same square.

Double bolas are more efficient than quickness boots plus a bola, since you're guaranteed to fire twice, and the cost is less. Unless you've got some black steel tower shields that you inherited from somewhere and don't have any other units to stick them on.