Siege weapons
 

What I asked myself since I got Dom 3: Why are there no siege weapons like catapults or ballistas in the game (except as defence in some forts)? I really missed them in my first sp games, especially in LA. Is there a reason for their absence?

Re: Siege weapons
 

I can't speak for the devs, but there are several reasons I can come up with. (This topic came up in the mod subforum)

1. it has to do with being a high magic - low tech environment.

2. A further problem arises with operation. Do you have a single machine that operates on it's own? Loading ammo, firing, moving, etc? Like you see in games like Warcraft 2, etc.
Or do you have operators? What happens with the operators? How do you target the machine or operators with spells? What happens when you kill one?

3. Another problem is size. Catapults, Trebuchets, Battering Rams, can all get quite big. In fact, often outside the limit we have. Furthermore, this issue is aggravated with having multiple weapons next to each other. It looks really strange, since Dom tends to use clump formations, instead of traditional spaced out formations you'd see for things like siege weapons.

4. Furthermore, we have the issue of mobility. Most siege weapons larger than a ballista are not mobile. They're constructed for a specific siege only. This is a difficult mechanic to represent.

5. Lastly, we have the issue of abstraction. Outside of battering rams, most siege weapons destroyed the walls of the fortification in question. This can't be done in the Dom system.

So, I'm pretty certain the Devs don't hate Siege weapons, after all, they were around in the COE days, it's just that they tend to come with a lot of baggage and problems.

Fortunately, if you still have a hankering for some siege weapons, they sometimes come up in mod nations, Skaven has something like that, and I'll be using a few in my dwarven Underkings mod nation.

Re: Siege weapons
 

There are siege weapons in the game. They just are "off-stage".

The rationale is that the reducing power of an army besieging a fortress represents the ability of the attacking army to build siege engines to level the fortress' walls, while the defensive power represents the ability to repair the walls. Engineer units are particularly good at designing powerful siege engines, or well-constructed walls, which is why they get a bonus.

It has nothing to do with magic.

Re: Siege weapons
 

I thought the units tore down the walls with their bare hands. Guess I was wrong...

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Siege weapons
 

Siege weapons are best abstracted imo, but anti personnel war machines can actually work rather well in dom3.

Re: Siege weapons
 

Hum, and about that "toring down the wall"...

Why is there always a only tiny opening in the wall ? I'd sure love to have more that one invading point and / or being able to break some other part of the wall.

Re: Siege weapons
 

And why does it happen that sometimes a fort will have no tower weapons? Is this just related to the type of fort you build? Do any forts have tower weapons except for home provinces?

Re: Siege weapons
 

That was covered in the 'problem of fort types' thread.

Re: Siege weapons
 

O.k. thanks for the answers. Perhaps "siege weapons" was a bit misleading, I meant war machines on the battlefield that could be thematic like Scorpions and ballistas that could easily be implementent for nations like Phytium, MA Ermor or the like. E.g. Ballistas could be treated as giant crossbows that fire once every 3 turns.
Was just wondering though.

Re: Siege weapons
 

That is really a thing that we can add to Conceptual Content Mod. Size 4-6 is enough for normal war machines. Nothing fancy like huge neurobalistas.


http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/war/Ca.../Oxybeles3.jpg

You can add many things to that, including AoE fire, poison, decay...

Greek artillery

Re: Siege weapons
 

What about a unit like Hydras with Secondshapes (and thirds...) based on the number of operators left. First operators are killed afterwards engine is damaged. If no Operator is left unit has no defense/attack/movement, only HP and being inanimated (destroyed if no commander left on battlefield) and each operator killed (each different shape) has different attack/defence damage based on the reduced efectiveness.

We can add also the "only repair in lab" tag because operator have to be trained.

Size problem shouldn't be so big, size 6 is huge (dragons) a siege machine much bigger than a big dragon? Possible but not mandatory. (We can asume that engineering needed to build those is uknown yet). Mobility is a problem, just give them movement one and high resources to imply use of horses, poles and such to move them.

Re: Siege weapons
 

I used the #shapechange command, with no #firstshape or #secondshape, to simulate a catapult type unit that needed to be assembled before being usable.

Assembled shape -> immobile, with powerful multiboulder attack
Disassembled shape -> mobile, but low hp and weaponless.

This meant that it could not be used as an offensive weapon since couldn't fight in the shape that allowed it to move. The multiboulder attack also caused massive friendly fire. It was great at siege battles though, both on the offense and the defense.

I scrapped the unit though since the AI couldn't use it.

I agree with Karlem that a series of secondshapes is a good simulation of a successively more damaged siegeweapon, or similar construct. I think Sombre made something like this already in his Ogre Nation mod.

All in all I don't think it would be hard to implement warmachines at all, considering how powerful mod tools have become. Heck, the Ulm Arbelestier is a sort of mini siege weapon. Makes sense that Ulm would have a "Big Bertha" type unit that's derived of the arbalest.

Re: Siege weapons
 

It's true it isn't hard to mod up battlefield artillery. You can get almost anything working in that respect.

If anyone needs help they can ask me. I'm not planning on making them though, for the most part. Ogre Kingdoms got the scraplauncher because it filled a role in their unit lineup and because it isn't just a warmachine, it's also a big pissed off monster.

Re: Siege weapons
 

It would be cool if there was implemented (not very likely) a system that let you, as the sieging army, build siege engines that then could be used when attacking the fortress. You would have to invest manpower every month from your sieging army to construct them. Engineers would of course give a huge bonus to this task.

Re: Siege weapons
 

Well, it's one of the main tasks of the sieging army to construct them! So you can just assume that they are doing so offstage. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

To Sombre:
Unfortunately, while thinking on the future Warhammer project I found no equivalent to Warhammer cannons with their non-circular area of effect. Did you think on these?

Re: Siege weapons
 

I mean you can use those siege engines in combat after they've been constructed.

Re: Siege weapons
 

On the topic of battlefield artillery, as opposed to a pure seige weapon - mages are effectively the battlefield artillery of Dominions

Re: Siege weapons
 

Well, the above-mentioned Warhammer Fantasy Battle has both, though its magic is somewhat weaker than that in the Dominions, and SC are exception there...