Newbish question
 

Now, I have played several single player games, but I am enetering my first Multiplayer. I need to know where the pretender god files are so I can send mine in.

Re: Newbish question
 

I believe its in ... like savedgames/newlords?

I'm at work tho and cant confirm

Re: Newbish question
 

Yes, pretender god files are in ~/dominions3/savedgames/newlords

Re: Newbish question
 

That's right for XP, but they are hidden elsewhere in Vista.

Re: Newbish question
 

Then probably something like %appdata%/Dominions3/savedgames/newlords http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif
(Note: I don't have Vista)

Re: Newbish question
 

There are in the "right" folder for my installation on vista...

DOMINION_HOME/savedgames/newlords

Re: Newbish question
 

I am not sure if this is the correct post to ask these questons but I am JUST starting and have 4 or 5 questions that I can not seem to find an answer to (maybe becausr they are too NEW...).

1. I am playing Nielfelheim for my first game and have seem some posts that this really isn't the one to 'get started with' could someone reccomend maybe onr that would be more of a match for a noob?

2. I am not clear on magic 'paths'. I mean when I am creating I used points to get 6 nature Icons so I could get 10% regenerative property. My question is this (in 2 parts)
1. Once you submit the anount of icons in the setup how do I go from 6 to say 10 in the nature path?
Is it experiance or am I stuck with what I set up.

2. How do I get another path AFTER initial setup?
I see that I can do it at a cost of 80 points at setup but I really don't want to spend them at that point (say I want to start an Astral path to go with my Nature Path...

3.When casting spells do they stay in effect until the caster is moved, killed, ot just the turn is over and do I have to recast every turn?

4. I have bben sending out a Priest behind my army to check for 'hidden magic sites' (there HAS to be an easier way) and have found some. However, while they show up in my screen it seems that they dissaper in a turn ot 2. Is that normal or are they supposed to accumulate?

I have noticed that my army gets about 3 to 4 provinces away and they start starving...will building a Fort/Citidel in that province ect help that.

Last question (LOL, for this post anyway)I have been putting my Pretender on the Imprisoned setting to get the extra points and figuring that for the first 30 or so turns I will be ok if I don't get to froggy and attack everything in sight.

I understand there are 1000 ways to play this game but I would like to get off at least to a good understanding as I have started over 12 times because of these questions.

ANY help would be appreciated and I thank you guys (and girls) who take the time to help us Noobs out!!

Re: Newbish question
 

1 : I don't play MP

2 : 1 : ????
2 : you have to empower, costs LOTS of gems, you'll find the command in the order menu, with research, defend...

3 : Globals stay in effect till the caster dies or someone dispells/replaces it. Other rituals can be cast monthly (for summons and remote search spells), just click M (shift+m)while selecting a mage.

4 : there are some spells to remotedly search provinces for every magic, you'll find them at conjuration 3, thaumaturgy 2, evocation 2, blood 2.
What does disappear ? gems ? sites ?

In MP, it is dangerous to have an imprisoned pretender if you don't have a strong bless.

Re: Newbish question
 

2) There are also items you can forge that will raise your level in a path while you have them equipped.
And, though not to raise personal level, you can get access to higher levels by summoning.

For example: A 2 death mage can forge a Skull Staff, bringing him to Death 3, which lets him summon a Mound Fiend, who has Death 3 already and can use the Staff to reach D4 and forge a Skull Helmet to reach D5 and summon a Lich who has D4 and can reach D6 with those items, etc, etc.
Obviously this requires much research and some planning.


Other note, you say you went to Nature 6 to get 10% regen. This doesn't apply to the pretender, but to blessed sacred troops. (Regen is very good for you Neifel giants, since they have a lot of hp.) These blesses are set at pretender creation. Adding paths/levels to your pretender, by empowering using gems or with items, later does not change them. Nor does losing paths, which happens when you call you r pretender back from death.

Re: Newbish question
 

1. Niefelheim is not a terrible choice, it can be fun stomping things with giants. The most common recommendations are the various Middle Era human nations, particularly Man, Ulm and Marignon. Man is based on England and Arthurian legend - it has knights, longbowmen and witches. It's not too good on magic. Ulm is a germanic nation of super-heavy armour, but has terrible magic. Marignon is probably my favourite - as well as decent troops, their fire mages excel at tossing fireballs around, so they can be good for starting to get a handle on the magic system.

2. The paths of a mage never really increase - this threw me as well when I started. It IS possible, by empowerment, but that is very expensive and only rarely a good idea. However, mages can use magic items to boost their magic skills. You can forge these once you do some research in Construction. Check the manual to find boosters for the paths you're interested in. For nature for example, the easiest booster is a Thistle Mace, for which you need to research Construction 4, and which you can forge with a Nature-2 mage. The Thistle Mace gives +1 nature to whoever holds it.

3. What kind of spell do you mean? Mostly they do what seems reasonable. Spells cast on the battlefield end when the battle ends. Ritual spells (those cast from the main map) just do whatever you'd expect from the description, I guess.

4. The least labour intensive way to search for magic sites is to use spells to do it from afar. Most of these are in Thaumaturgy 2. However, wandering around with mages isn't a bad idea either. Note, though, that mages can only find sites of the paths they have skills in, and some sites require higher levels in a path to find than others. For instance, a fire-4 mage will find all fire sites in a province, while a fire-1 will only find those that are easiest to find.

There are never more than 4 sites in any one province. 2 is probably typical. But to find all of them, of course, you'd need to search with all the different magic paths, which in
general is difficult.

Magic sites don't disappear. I'd suggest that was an interface confusion, e.g. you were clicking on a different province or something.

5. Starvation: Ways to avoid this include sticking near to your forts (they supply nearby armies) and sticking to nice terrain (i.e. farms rather than swamps). Of course neither of these may be practical. The best solution is to forge some Endless Bags of Wine (nature, construction 2 I think) to take with you.

6. Imprisoned pretender: Honestly up to you, all options are viable. You might want an awake Dominion 10 (for awe) Wyrm to go off conquering on turn 1, or you might want an imprisoned oracle to just give you good scales. Or an imprisoned water-9 dragon to give you a powerful bless. Or a dormant prince of death to emerge once you've forged him some items and go conquering. Or any of loads of other possibilities. Have a play and see what works, and what you like.

Re: Newbish question
 

Magic path booster guide should help in finding ways to branch into new paths. It mostly governs multiplayers strategies, and getting as-high-as-possible levels in all paths isn't necessary even in MP, so don't worry about it too much if you're having fun.

Re: Newbish question
 

1. Niefelheim looks fine to me. But as llamabeast suggested, Marignon are very good to begin with.

2.1. You can increase thanks to items, empowerment or wishes, but this will not have any effect on your bless. So if you picked Nature 6, you'll never get +15% regen on your sacreds even if you empower to nature 8, 10 or whatever.
2.2. Empowerment again, but even more expensive. A cost of 80 points at setup means you took a chassis that's not suited to many magic paths (dragon?). Some chassis are better for having several paths, pretenders like the archmage or great enchantress cost only 10 per additional path for instance.
Considering that empowerment is 1) expensive and 2) only possible if you have gems of the good type (which probably require you to have at least one mage with that path to begin with), it's probably a bad idea to rely on it.

3. For ritual spells, those which are global enchantments last until the caster dies, the spell is dispelled, or someone casts another enchantment that replaces it.
Some spells (domes...) require you to spend 1 additional gem per turn the spell is to last.

Re: Newbish question
 

Thanks to everyone, you are very helpful to a noob that really was pretty lost.

Yes I used a Green Dragon as pretender (I just went by the semi-Stategy guide to nations in the manual).

So If I build a second Fortress/Citidal ect some distance away from my original it will draw supplies from areas surounding my new Fortress just like my original and I can stop my armies from starving if I am in the Fortress?

Thanks agian for EVERYTHING... I look forward to trying MP when I feel I need a whoopin cause I am finally able to beat up on the AI!!

Re: Newbish question
 

The fortress will boost supplies in it's own province and too a lesser extent in the provinces around it.
That's not a very effective solution though. You want those troops to be out conquering new lands, not holed up in a fort.

So, a couple of suggestions:
Can you use smaller armies? If you've just got 6N on your pretender that's not a really strong bless for Neifelheim, but it's still effective. A dozen or so Neifel giants, blessed and led by a Neifel Jarl should be able to take any indies and all but the largest AI armies. Keep them in cold provinces, it boosts their chill auras and those do much of the damage. Forge some equipment for the Jarl as well. Frostbrand, a shield, a reinvigoration item, Luck pendant if you can. Have him bless himself, cast any useful buffs and attack.

As suggested above: Bags of Wine. hire some cheap indy nature mages, have them site search a bit and then churn out the bags. Give one to each commander or too scouts with your armies.

While you're building that up, avoid waste and other low supply provinces. Plains, farms should have plenty of supply for most armies.

Re: Newbish question
 

A dozen or so? Surly five niefel giants and a Jarl can take out the independents.

Re: Newbish question
 

I probably overestimated. I've never tried them with only a minimal bless.

Re: Newbish question
 

You can also have nature mages accompany your armies.
Each mage will give a supply bonus = Nat level * 5...

Re: Newbish question
 

I have a few other Noob things to ask, sorry if they seem so basic but I have read about everything I could and still am blind as a bat.

Let me say I have been playing every night and get a little farther and know just a little more before some AI comes and beats hell out of me.


I have been playing this as Late Man and playing it more or less like RomeTW just to get the mechanics down.

My questions (for now anyway)are:

1.Should I make my First Army Commander my Prophet or should I use a Mage of some sort.

I'm still not sure what a Prophet does for me (or for My Commander for that matter)I know it speads Dominion and I THINK I know that that means, I get more bucks, supplies, and he makes folks happier in the provinces.
BUT what does it do for the Commander?

2. I figured out (sorta) what being on the Hall of fame meeans and it be Gooood. (if there are any hidden things about it could someone let me know)

3. What good does a MOVABLE Pretender do (say a Ghost King)if I am afraid to get him killed? Wouldn't it be better to have a non movable Pretender and protect him?

4.I have been sending out units that can patrol area's to evey border province (I mean EACH province has its own) and am building a Temple in EVERY Province.

The Problem is I have no Idea if (and why) building a Temple in that many provinces is a waste of money and resourses (not to mention time away from building something else).

5.. When I have my Army Commander (he is a Prophet but NOT a mage)cast Bless, do I need to do it EVERY round of battle or once for the battle?

6.Do the low magic items I can forge protect only the Commander or do they apply to his troops also?

And along that same line, If I forge flying boots and it only affects the Commander can I leave my army in a province by itself and fly home for more men in say 1 turn?

7. Last (Sigh) question for know (tonight anyway so I can get my nightly WHOOPIN under way by the AI) When a different Faction declares war on me it seems an empty threat....BUT when I attack an AI he comes at me with EVERYtHING he's got.

So I ask this...Does the AI consider an attack without declaring war a big deal (and if so WHERE do I find the option of declaring war)? AND when I come upon a new faction If I leave it alone will it leave me alone (for a while anyway).

Sorry for being so long but I figure If iask 6 questions at once I won't be taking up space for others to ask more advanced questions.

Thanks in advance...this is a GREAT game but it has a learning curve as steep as AGEODS American Cilvil War and the forums arr the ONLY place to get good info!!!

Re: Newbish question
 

Apologies if other people answered first!

1) A lot of people make their scout into their prophet. The prophet gets 3 holy magic OR +1 holy magic if he already has 3 or more. He also gets the "blessed" status meaning if your pretender has more than level 4 in any spell path he always gets the bless effect. The advantage of a scout prophet is that you can stealth preach in hostile lands, but you can still fight if you want to by just following around the commander. Also, you can use your commander to patrol on turn 1 and increase taxes for some extra cash early on.

2) There's a spell that lets you raise dead heroes that made it into the Hall of Fame. Also, the bonuses are semi-random, but in part based on what you were doing to get into the Hall of Fame. For instance, there's a bonus that gives you increased research, but it's very hard to research your way into the Hall of Fame!

3) Pretenders generally come in 3 useful flavors:
Rainbow mage for site searching or forging
Heavy bless pretender (level 9 magic in 1 or more paths)
SC Pretender for early expansion and general mayhem

An immobile pretender could be useful if you wanted to set them up to cast Wish late in the game, or as a researcher, etc. But generally you want your pretender to do things that your nation normally can't do, like diversify your magic paths or supplement your weak national troops.

4) You don't actually have to build structures everywhere. In fact, every temple you build is 400g that you haven't spent on troops. The quickie answer on why you build temples is to unlock the recruitment of priest commanders, and spread dominion, which in turn spreads the scales you chose at the beginning of the game.

5) Divine Bless affects everyone on the field for the duration of the battle. Bless affects a bunch of units for the duration of the battle.

6) Most items only affect the person wearing them. Exceptions like the Endless Bag of Wine will say so in their description

7) There is no diplomacy, you're always at war with everyone. However, you start the game with a "cease fire" against all the AI nations. If you attack them or they declare war on you via a message, you are at war for the rest of the game. The notable exception is if you both attack a 3rd party province at the same time; this does not break the cease fire.

Re: Newbish question
 

You should also have apologised for people who answered late. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


1. Prophet can cast Sermon of Courage and Smite, which are useful in the early game, and prophet also gets boosted hp, str and some other stats in your own dominion, but penalties in enemy dominion. He's also always blessed, but that isn't important with LA Man. Starting commanders make good prophets if you want the spells.


2. Staying in the Hall of fame longer is even better, and if you have Death magic you can recall dead heroes still in Hall of Fame. Unique summons and pretenders don't get heroic abilities.

3. Sitesearching alone is worth a little risk. You don't have to move a mobile pretender into danger. Some pretenders are more about magic and rituals and support, others can fight or cast good battle-spells and are tough enough to stay alive.
You can make your priests recall dead pretender, but he loses 1 point from all of his magic paths.

4.You don't build up provinces, but search for any sites they might have. Those replace buildings you'd build in other games.
Build castles to protect important provinces, such as sites with lots of good sites and recruitable mages. Also near chokepoints and enemies, so that you can build your armies closer to the enemy front.
Recruit PD (provincial defence) instead of patrollers. 1 point everywhere is good, 10 or more in border provinces might catch spies, anything over 15 starts to be quite expensive but LA Man gets very good troops from it. See pg 120 of your manual and compare the units you get to other nations' PD.

5. Only sacred units can be blessed. Bless works until the end of battle. Prophets are always blessed.

6.Items affect only commander unless otherwise stated in the item's description.

7. About wars...

If you attack AI nation, you're in war. It's just like he sending a message about you two being in war, except that the AI can actually attack you. Wars can be declared from the other side of the world...
Wars will eventually end if nothing happens for a time, but AI doesn't tell you this. Another aggression will make it angry again.
If you kill an enemy pretender, AI attacks you more agressively and doesn't forgive as easily, or perhaps at all.
To get an AI leave you alone, don't appear weak. By PD in border provinces and recruit some independent archers to accompany it; they work very well with your PD.

edit: made my post more coherent.

Re: Newbish question
 

Thank you both!!!

I can now take my nightly whoopin but make it last longer (somehow that doesn't sound right).

Seriously, That was a big help and push in the right direction.

I have never really played magic (being the THUG that I am) games so I am a little behind everyone else.

this Forum is every bit as good as Ageod ACW for helping prople and I/we appreciate it!!!

Re: Newbish question
 

OK (sigh) my whoopin came a little quicker than normal so I will ask the one question that has been bugging me every since I started this game.

What spell can I use to check for magic sites without having to travel to each province.

IF I have a pretender (Ghost King) who is 5 death 4 earth 2 air and have him search for sites....shouldn't he find ANY of the above type sites if he travels there (i'm talking about sites that have a white sunburst and say they have stuff? (cause mine does not find anything....I think hes Drunk half the time anyway)

BTW Is that a good spread for my pretender in the 'magic' paths? Or should I have like a death 3 Earth 9 ect?

Thanks agian

Re: Newbish question
 

Hope this helps
Fire - Augury
Water - Voice of Aspu
Air - Auspex
Earth - Gnome Lore
Astral - Arcane Probing
Nature - Haruspex
Death - Dark Knowledge
Blood - Blood Bowl

Some are Thaumaturgy (Level 2), Evocation (Level 2), Conjuration (Level 3). If you order a mage to cast one of those spells with the monthly casting command (shift+m) he will do this every turn for another province.

There are 3 special Spells for Site Searching:
Voice of Tiamat - Detects all Elemntal Sites in a Water Province (Conj 4)
Acashic Records - Detects all Sites in a Province
Arcane Strands (hope I remmebered right) - The Caster detects Magic Sites in your dominion randomly, up to his paths

The sites have different Levels (0-4), If you use the command "Search for magic sites" your mage can only find sites up to his levels in magic paths. I.e. a Nature 3 mage can find only up to Nature 3 sites. If you searched a province, you can always check at the upper screen or the overview (F1), what level and paths already have been searched for - small colored icons with numbers in them. Maximum needed mage level is 4 to find everything of that path. The spells above all do a "9" search.

First, did you instruct him to "Search for magic Sites"? You do have to do this every time you want him to search a province.
There is just a probability for magic sites. So it is possible to have no magic sites in a province. The Sun Symbol normally shows an increased chance, but still there is the possibility of no sites. Even, if there were 4 (the maximum) sites in that province, those can be sites from magic paths not available to you.

There are some strategies picking paths:

You pick your paths for bless effects. These are good for any sacred units. Those can be blessed by priests in battle. If your nation has strong (either in number or raw power) sacred units, then this is commonly used Strategy. Bless effects start at 4 in any path and a second effect comes with 9.
Bless strategies commonly use 2 or 3 blesses at 9. This is very expensive, because you get only those bless effects, your pretender starts with (no booster increases bless effects). So a pretender wit 3 paths all at 9 is cost intensive.

rainbow
you give your pretender as many paths at levels 1-4 as you can afford, so he can site search for a lot of sites. Level 2 is often enough, because most sites are 2 or lower.

caster
you have some casting strategy. You want some spells available to your pretender. Then you can pick your paths accordingly. Often used for special spells not avalable to your nation.

SC (Super Combatant)
A martial pretender. You pick the paths to be able to cast effective combat spells.
Or sometimes you don't pick any paths and invest in good scales (order, luck etc.)
An example for the later is the Great Wyrm. He is quite effective even without speels. If you choose dominion 9(10) your pretender gets Awe(+4), a very effective defensive power.

Any combination of the above.

Re: Newbish question
 

> Arcane Strands (hope I remmebered right) - The Caster detects Magic Sites in your
> dominion randomly, up to his paths

Strands of Arcane Power doesn't detect up to the full value of the caster's paths.
I think it's up to at most half his magic levels, and boosters don't seem to count.

Re: Newbish question
 

Fire,Air,Earth and Nature are in Thaumaturgy 2, Astral in Evocation 2, Death in Conjuration 2, Water in Conjuration 3, Blood in Blood 2.
There's nothing in Enchantment.

Re: Newbish question
 

If you want to try just magic, Ghost King with few picks in paths your nation doesn't get is a good pick. As LA Man, Death, Fire, Water and Nature would fit well.

You could also choose a pretender that helps your national mages by forging path boosters. Page 282 of your manual lists various items that boost magical powers of a mage, and both non-unique Air boosters require Air 4. Your national mages won't get that good without help, so having Air 4 on your pretender would really help them.

Re: Newbish question
 

Yes, you're absolutely right, shame on me;) I edited it accordingly.

Re: Newbish question
 

Hmm, just noticed I forgot to mention this, but another big disability for immobile pretenders is that they tend not to have any item slots (beyond 2-4 misc slots), so you can't give them quite a few of the path-boosting gear, which can really weaken their potential for magic.

Re: Newbish question
 

WOW....all I could ask for and more!!!

Thanks guys...

Last night I was motoring along and actually kickin some Ai booty for a change.

And then....I decided to let my best Champion (and Prophet) fight in the Death Match arena.

Now I did give him a winged boot, ring of Lighting Protection AND Ring of missle protection.... he had heroic (was 2nd in the hall of fame) and then, and then....he got his little Butt kicked (and of course killed) in 6th round.

But being the smart gamer I am I SAVED the game BEFORE the battle (pretty smart huh!!)

Except that after I reloaded and hit turn it rewrote my save and NOW I still have a dead Prophet!!

So now I know what the warning about saved games meant (and BTW I think its a GREAT rule).

What a GREAT game!!

Thanks agian everyone and maybe someday I will let you guys whoop up on me instead of the AI (if I EVER figure all this out)!!

Re: Newbish question
 

well if you like you could join some of the newb games, because in those games everybody is inexperienced

Re: Newbish question
 

Question:

why wouldn't I want Earth 4 on my set up so I can forge medium artifacts?

If I have say Earth 4 and Death 5 are my Magic users a LvL 4 and LvL 5 in those right off the bat?

If not how do I get them to level 2 or 3 or 4 ect?

Is it like Commanders when they would 'Level Up' because of exp?

I guess I am a little confused because It doesn't seem to say " Level 4 water Mage" ect.

The other thing that confuses me is that iF they are NOT LvL 4 Mages in Earth (example) then how can they forge Items at a Lvl 4 pace?

Re: Newbish question
 

Various items require various paths at various levels.

Your pretender's paths do not effect the paths of your mages.

Mostly not at all, path booster items for most of the rest, and burning gems to empower them when you really need to.

Experience somewhat increases attack, defense, research, and more but does not effect path levels.

Are you confusing research levels with path levels? Your research unlocks spells which can them be cast by a mage with sufficient paths.

Re: Newbish question
 

There are two kinds of limits for spells and items: research requirement, and path requirement. Level 0 items are trinkets, and mostly require level 1 or 2 in a single path. Items from Construction 2 are minor and often only require level 1 in a single path, but some take level 3 (Enormous Cauldron of Broth takes Nature 3), and Soul Contract is very expensive (Blood 6 Fire 1, so 65 slaves and 5 fire gems).

Similarly for your mages, once you have researched level 4 in Evocation, all mages know the spell "Blade Wind". If they have 3 levels in Earth magic, they can cast it. If they have Earth 1, they can't. But if you give them Earth Boots (for +1 to Earth) and make them cast Conjuration spell Summon Earthpower (for +1 to Earth), even mages who only have one innate level in Earth can cast Blade Wind and other E3 spells.

Earth isn't very important for good items, but Earth 3 gives access to Dwarven Hammers which make all further forging 25% cheaper. They are supposedly one of the most important items available, often traded for in multiplayer if your nation can't forge one, and Earth-wielding pretender is a good choice for any single-player games where you want to try your hand at forging items.

Re: Newbish question
 

In many cases, they can't, and you have to live without them or (in Multi-player games) trade with other nations. Dominions is pretty strong on "thematic" nations that do not all behave the same, and so you can't build other nations' troops and you often can't forge the same magic items or cast the same spells as other nations. (I love Master of Magic and Master of Orion, but it's true that as the game goes on, all races tend to converge to the same general playstyle--except for the ones who took super-advantages like Creative in MOO2. Dominions tries to avoid this and I think that's valid.) As you gain more experience and/or read guides on these forums, you'll gain more insight into this. "Aha! Helheim has recruitable Air mages with hand slots. That means I can count on giving Winged Boots to slow commanders and/or SCs."

That said, just because your nation doesn't have e.g. E5 mages doesn't necessarily mean that you can't forge E5 items. This comes in two flavors: either you don't have enough levels in a path (E4 instead of E5) or you don't have a path at all (no E mages). If you don't have enough levels, you can potentially empower some mages, but it's more common to try to get enough levels, gems, and Construction research to forge some path-boosting items. If you don't have the paths at all, you can typically either 1.) recruit independent mages (for low-level items, like S1 (S=Astral) w/ Sages if you don't have S on your national mages), although you can't always count on finding the right indies, 2.) put the paths on your pretender, or 3.) try to "boot-strap" into that path by summoning creatures with that path and having them forge path boosters to boost them high enough to summon something *better* in that path then they are, then moving the path-boosters to the new creature, and repeating. This takes a lot of gems, Construction research, and Conjuration (or sometimes Enchantment) research.

By the way, some people don't like having independent mages in the game, because letting you boost yourself out of a path you don't normally have (Helheim with Nature magic) can be "unthematic." You may or may not come to feel that way, too, eventually.

-Max

Edit: the hand slots on Helheims's air mages are important in the sense that it means they can hold Dwarven Hammers forged by Helheim's Earth mages. This means they can forge *cheap* Winged Boots. Sorry, should have been more specific.

Re: Newbish question
 

I am progressing (at a very slow pace) and once I learn one thing it makes 2 other questions.

1. I finally figured out the magic paths....However, I have forged the 'Dwarven Hammer', 'The Crystal Coin', and the Thistle Mace.

Usually in most games other Stategy Games I would put them (or at least a couple of them) on my BEST Commander.

But in this particular game I get the feeling these are used to further the Magic Paths rather than making a 'Super General'.

OK...I tried adding these items to my Commander (Prophet but non magical)and Nothing.

So I tried adding them to my other Commander who is a Amazon Mage and the crystal coin DID raise its Astral level by 1. But the Dwarven Hammer NOR the Thistle Mace added a magic level or (since it had neither Earth or Nature to begin with)gave it a magic path in those disiplines.

SOooooo, I added it to my best Druid (I am playing Marvini) and it would add a level in the astral or the nature BUT my mage was a E4 Druid and the dwarven Hammer Did NOT add another Earth level.

So I ask...what the h"&#* do I do with these items.

I have read about them, I understand what thier purpose is BUT I don't understand HOW to best use them I guess.

Any help would be appreciated...(and remember I am as dumb as a rock in this game).

Thanks!!

Re: Newbish question
 

The hammer does not increase the magic level. It lets you forge items with fewer
gems. The item that will increase your Earth magic level is the pair of boots that
you can forge with 10 earth gems at Construction level 4. With the hammer, it will
take you only 7 earth gems.

For an example of using the thistle mace - you have a druid with nature level one.
Give him the thistle mace, and now his magic level is two. He could cast, every
turn, the spell "Haruspex", and he would discover all nature sites (if any) in the
targeted province. Or in combat, instead of casting:
Eagle Eyes, Vine Arrow, Vine Arrow, Vine Arrow, Vine Arrow, etc..
he could be casting
Eagle Eyes, Storm of Thorns, Storm of Thorns, Storm of Thorns, Storm of Thorns, etc...
which not only has higher range, but also half a dozen extra projectiles.

Of course, the above example is very simple... but to get really good, the best way
is to jump in a MP game, and when your favorite army gets wiped out by something
that does not break a sweat, learn.

Re: Newbish question
 

Hum I think the question you wanted an answer to is this one :
Booster only boost if you already have some magic in that path.

There are different types of magic bonus. The "nature bonus:1" and equivalent boost magic if you already have some path in it. If you give a 'thistle mace' to someone with no nature magic, he has no clue what to do with it, and will use it as a dumb club and try to clobber his ennemies with it.

The second type of magic bonus is : "contruction : 25" or something like it. It means it reduces the cost of casting construction spell on the worldwide map by 25%, rounding down.

The first one concerns a type of magic, the second one a school.

Re: Newbish question
 

The Construction Bonus, Enchantment bonus etc etc only appear in sites. The bonus Dwarven hammer gives is Forge bonus, and it affects all items.

Hammers are most useful when you are forging expensive items like Staves of Elemental Mastery (25+25 gems, about 18+18 with hammer) or Rings of Sorcery (40 gems, 30 with hammer)

Re: Newbish question
 

OK, that makes sense and now that you mentioned it I DID read somewhere that eht D Hammer was used to cut the cost of forging (At least I have the Forging part down).

But what do I DO with the hammer?

Once I Forge it SOMEONE in my army must use it to make it work....right?

Now If I give say a lvl 4 Forge Constuction item that raises the N lvl 1 notch to a lvl 6 mage that has N magic...
will it work or will it only work if the mage has LOWER than the Forge Construction rating?

I can't wait to play MP and have no fear of taking a Whoopin (as I am already getting my A** kicked by the AI which in the forums everyone says is not tough...SIGH.

But i would like to understand the dual bless, summoning, and Blood slaves first as I have the sneaking suspicion that without understanding these things I will last about 4 minutes!!

Thanks guys, you HAVE helped push me in the right direction.

Like I said, I learn one thing and 2 more questions arise.

But I really have read everything I could on these forums, Read Baalz's (I think thats how its spelled) excellent strategy's for different Races, and have started over like 30 times after learning something every time I play.

I think my problem is I have always played Strategic war games that have weapon strength, windage, Terrain ect but I have very little exp with magic (other than neverwinter Nights, Icewind Dale ect and then I still didn't play the Mage).

So understanding this may take me a little time and I appreciate the time and patiance that everyone is taking to help me!!

Re: Newbish question
 

You use a Hammer whenever you want to forge something. Give it to the mage doing the forging, put it back in the lab next turn (or use it to forge something else.)

If I'm understanding your question properly, you can give any path booster to any mage with at least one level in that path and it will work. (As long as you can give it too him, that is he has the proper slots open.) A Thistle Mace works just as well going from N9 to N10 as from N1 to N2.

Re: Newbish question
 

I think that your questions are very interesting because there is a lot that people on this forum take for granted. Like boosters working only with mages having at least one in the corresponding path.

Hammer reduces the cost of forging items (as said above). If you've read the different guides you know that labs enable mages to make magic items. Whenever you want to make a magic item, you just pick up the mage with the right bath to forge the item and select it from the list. The right way to use the hammer(s) is therefore to equip it to the mage(s) that makes the most expensive magic item(s) for this current turn. Otherwise it works just like a normal item creation.

Hum, and I have to says something else : when choosing the items the full cost is shown and not the reduced cost. A thristle mace is shown as costing 10 nature gem even if you have the hammer in hand. However, when you "validate" the item (with the hammer in hand), only 7 gems will be deducted from your vaults and not 10.

The same is true of the other 'school' magic site, the reduction in cost is not shown. But it does work.

Re: Newbish question
 

I think that you are getting bogged down in this forum's terminology (jargon).
Lets try to explain what a few sentances mean...

The dwarven hammer is Construction 4 item that requires Earth 3, and provides
a forge bonus of 25%.

This means it requires Construction 4 to be researched before it can be forged
by a mage with at least three levels in Earth magic. Incidentally, the forging
of this item will use up 15 earth gems, unless you have some forging bonuses.
The forge bonus of 25% means that when you forge other items with a mage that
is wielding the hammer, you will use 25% fewer gems. For example, if you are
forging a hammer with a hammer, you will use only 12 gems. If you have a druid,
with one level of Nature magic, and he is using the hammer to forge an item that
usually requires 5 nature gems, he will need only 3. Note that the druid has
no Earth magic skill, but can still use the hammer.

Ah, anyway... I am not doing too well at writing this post, keep getting
distracted. I am sure by now other people have answered better than I did.

Just a piece of advice - unless you are playing Mictlan, you do not have to
understand blood slaves. Blood magic is an advanced topic, and many really good
players will not touch it, but still do very well.

Re: Newbish question
 

hello....my usual 2 questions a night time!!

1. I have played a number of games in MP that had some form of a 'LUCK' attribute that you could take.

I have noticed that in some games (MOO2 for example)that while it looked like a waste of picks on the surface (and MOST everyone would never pick Luck as it was kinda costly..3 points out of 20.

However, When in the middle and late game you got Commanders wanting to be hired by you with AWESOME game breaking stats...you started to understand why that 'fool' you all where laughing at at the start picked it while he was dismanteling your Starships Fleets.

So I am wondering if the same applies to MP in D3? Are there any benificail reasons to take Luck or even take Misfortune -3?

I know in D3 playing as a Noob (and a dumb one at that)it IS better not to have a bunch of bad things happening to you while your trying to learn.

2. Pretenders
I understand its all about playing style, nation and Era picked ect.


But maybe I am not understanding WHEN and HOW to pick a Pretender for the nation I want to play.

I would usually (in most other strategy games I have played) pick the strongest, meanest, 1 creature wrecking ball I could and sic him on nations close by as soon as I could find them before they became too powerful.

It seems like in this game I am confused.
I keep finding myself taking a weak pretender (like Arch Mage) that I can take a LOT of good buffs )production, Growth ect)and a LOT of different magic paths so I can research everything (like 4 air, 3 earth, 2 fire, 1 astral, 1 Nature.

But I read that this is called a rainbow pretender and its not really looked on as a good choice especially in MP.

I guess I have 2 questions on this.

1. Does the magic you pick for your pretender effect your starting priests magic lvl (if you have 3E on pretender does your Priests start with 3 earth Astral 1 ect?
And if not why would I want to pick more than say Earth 6 and fire 3?

And finally are the Buffs (Growth, production ect)Worth taking over magic because with a LOT of pretender choices you can't take a lot of magic AND buffs.

What exactly is considered a good SC and how would you design one (just an example).

Thanks for any help

Re: Newbish question
 

Luck affects events and appearance of national heroes. Events can be good or bad, ranging from few magical gems or few hundred extra gp to 3000 gp, magic item and gems. Bad events range from little extra unrest or destroyed temple to hordes of barbarians or knights attacking one of your provinces.
Some nations have VERY good heroes, and some nations have heroes that are so weak to be almost useless. Sometimes the same nation has both types. Heroes can appear if you have anything but Misfortune 3, but the chances of getting them are much better with Luck.

Because Order scale gives money and makes events less rare, taking Order and Luck together is usually avoided because they don't synergize well. Taking Turmoil and Misfortune together, on the other hand, is VERY bad for you nation and something you shouldn't really even consider. It's usually best to go all out if you take one; Luck 3 allows for some very good events, while Order 3 protects you from bad events so you can probably afford Misfortune 1. Order is better for money, but the gems you get from events tend to really pile up in longer games, and while gold events from Luck 3 aren't as reliable as Order 3 your starting position has more effect on your income than the difference between the two.

Re: Newbish question
 

Thank you, I think I am starting to understand the inner workings of the 'Scales' (which (DUH) I just figured out why they call them scales. I was envisioning 'scales' like on a serpent and it actually came to me in a dream that it was the 'Actual Scales that you choose your buffs with.

Sometime the terminology can throw folks I guess!!

Due to your very ih depth answer I an getting a handle on scales.

What I need to know is this:

Is LUCK as good in MP as it is in solo (some games it isn't like taking the Diplomacy option in solo but in MP has NO relevance (I understand that the race you choose might effect the overall selection), but for the most part is Luck help you starting position in BOTH Solo AND MP?

The one thing that I have been having a LOT of trouble with is Pretenders.

Is it 'Usually' Better to have a weak Rainbow Pretender with lots of scales and magic OR a less diversivied P and have him either devout his picks to either Battle or Magic?

Also does the choosing of say 5 or 6 Dominion help in a MP game ( I'm not really sure yet if it helps in a solo game.

Thanks1!! Getting closed with your help every day!!

Re: Newbish question
 

Luck works the same in SP and MP. It's usually considered one of the weaker scales. As your realm gets bigger, later in the game, the number of events (good or bad) is capped, so the advantages of luck doesn't scale with number of provinces the way order and growth can. Most MP players prefer Order 3 and Misfortune 1 or 2. It's a trade off.

5 or 6 dominion is about the minimum I'd use in MP. You can get away with less in SP. 9 or 10 for Awe, or if you're really trying to spread your dominion for some reason. A temperature dependent race (like Neifelheim or Abyssia), nasty dominion effects (like LA Ermor or R'yleh) Immortals?
You want to be fighting in your own dominion as much as you can, especially if you're using your pretender.

The important thing with a pretender is to figure out what you want from him. Rainbows can be useful for getting lots of site searching early on and later for forging and casting rituals. Most would only do this in MP if you have some form of very strong troops to expand with and hold off an initial rush. Elephants would be a good example.

You can also use a pretender for early expansion. If you haven't yet, try an awake Wyrm with no magic, good scales and dominion 9 or 10 for Awe. He should be able to take independents by himself from turn 2. Avoid attacking Knight provinces in low dominion. If he dies, call him back. He's got no magic to lose.
A Prince of Darkness with a few more levels of death can do the same thing, but is a little more fragile until he gets some equipment. Even cheap trinkets make a big difference. Since he has full slots, he can be equipped to stay a threat throughout the game.

I'll often try to design a pretender who can do a little of both. Expand my nation's magic diversity and be able to serve as an SC in the middle game. That depends a lot on what your nation has.

The other main use is to set up a pretender to cast particular late game spells. Wish, Master Enslave, that kind of thing.

Re: Newbish question
 

For some races, choosing a high dominion is critical.

For example, I prefer starting with Dominions of 7 or so when playing a sacred bless strategy. This ensures that I can produce enough sacred units per turn to form an army.

On some pretenders, for example with fear, I like to play Dom 9 or preferably 10, in order to get the awe effect.

And usually, if I am playing an awake rainbow, I will accept a very low dominion 1-2...and take precautions against dominion death...

Re: Newbish question
 

Keep in mind, Dexlyn, that if you try the awake Wyrm pretender, even though he has no magic to lose he can still pick up afflictions (although regeneration reduces the chance of afflictions, and coming back from the dead will sometimes heal some afflictions). Another option is to pick an Immortal pretender like Agartha's Risen Oracle, forge some Black Plate Steel Armor immediately, and go conquer some territories. Nearly as quick and fun, and he heals afflictions (Immortals only come back to life in friendly dominion, but they heal afflictions everywhere) and never picks up fatigue from melee--although he lacks regeneration.

-Max

Re: Newbish question
 

Be very careful taking 1-2 dominion in MP. You'll need to spend money on temples and priests to preach that you can avoid otherwise. Even so it can lead to an early dominion death if you start near high dominion nations and/or blood sacrificers.

Precautions can help, but you're still very vulnerable.

Re: Newbish question
 

For multiplayer, if you can't take at least 15 provinces by the end of the first year/start of the second spring, take a combat pretender. You can get by with less in optimum circumstances, but if something goes wrong it's good to have a tough pretender.

Also, try combat pretenders until you can build one that can destroy independents, and then consider how you could counter it.