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Russian weapons v4
Dear Don and Andy, thanks for your big work spent for creation of the last patche for this remarkable game.
Unfortunately in our OOB there are errors and discrepancies. Here all list with links on information sources. The weapon: 1. The weapon 003 - name M1944 is a rifle has a wrong name, correct name M1930. Name M1944 in Russian army has a carbine. Carbines in Russian army have not received a wide circulation, such as for example Ak-47 Or AK-74. I would unite them under one name. english link: http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl03-e.htm 2. The weapon 005 - name AKSU-74 - has the wrong name, correct name AKS-74U. This weapon is not used by our army special troops. In Russia there are many forces of a special purpose, for example - army specnaz, specnaz MVD (militia), specnaz GRU, etc. In army are the weapon use basically crews, AT and ATGM sections and other. Also this weapon widely uses militia special troops (MVD - OMON) against gangsters. Actually in game spetsnaz with rifles AKS-74U is militia spetsnaz (OMON). But it is wrong - militia is not army formation. Also rifles AKS-74U are not used in engineering parts of Russian army - para pioneers. english link: http://world.guns.ru/assault/as03-e.htm 3. The weapon 006 - PPS-43 - wrong range - 150 metres - correct range of 200 metres. english link: http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg03-e.htm 4. weapons 007 and 008 -AK74 and AK47 -correct name AK-74 Rifle and AK-47 Rifle. english link: http://world.guns.ru/assault/as02-e.htm 5. weapon 014 -5.45mm RPK SAW -wrong name, correct name 5.45mm RPK-74, wrong accuracy 28, correct accuracy 27 English link: http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg16-e.htm 6. weapon 015 -RPG-2 -wrong penetration 170mm, correct 200mm. English link: http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl01-e.htm 7. weapons 018 and 019 -RPG-7 and RPG-7V -wrong penetration 330mm and 600mm -correct no more 260-300mm and 500mm. Grenade PG-7V and VL -see link (iam have book RPG-7 40 years in arms): http://www.artillerist.ru/modules/my...oryid_260.html http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl02-e.htm http://belostokskaya.ru/weapons_mp/antitank/rpg-7/ http://www.army.lv/?s=1465&id=485&v=1#info etc. 8. weapon 024 -RPG-18 Myxa -wrong name, correct RPG-18 Muha (transkrip to English) 9. weapon 026 RPG-22 Netto - wrong warhead size, correct 4. 10. weapon 027 and 028 - A series of grenades RKG-3, RKG-3M, RKG-3EM - was made after WW2. We do not have exact data about that in what precisely years these grenades were made, but we precisely know that at last RKG-3EM was penetration 220mm, RKG-3E 170mm, RKG-3 125mm (in game if to approximate 13). With these grenades armed only paratroops and mech infantry. http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...relruchgran/1/ http://army.lv/?s=629&id=105&v=1#info 11. weapon 030 - 122mm M30 L22 - in game it is used SU-122. Su-122 with such weapon were issued in the USSR from December, 1942 till August, 1943 - all 638 pieces have been let out. Quantity SU-122 with such weapon has remained and till the end of war, but already were issued as well others SU-122 with other weapon. I am assured this weapon it is necessary to clean. http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%A3-122 12. weapon 042 -120mm 2B Mortar -wrong characteristic, correct -weapon range 142. Correct name -120mm 2B11 Mortar http://www.artillery-mz.com/en/products/03/120/ 13. weapon 043 -RPG-29 Vampir -we think, correct weapon size = 4. 14. weapon 044 -9M918 CM Rocket -correct range 220 15. weapon 045 and 046 - Why such range? 16. weapon 047 -AZP-23-4 CS Gun - This gun the gun clone - number 057 - it is necessary for cleaning. Shilka without a radar can shoot on any purposes, less precisely. 17. weapon 048 -SPG-9 73mm -correct range 1300 meters = 26. 18. weapon 049 -30mm AGS-17 GL - This weapon is better for renaming in 30mm AGS GL. It will probably use for AGS-17 Team and AGS-30 team. AGS-30 weight AGS-30 much easier than AGS-17 differs from AGS-17 that that. 19. weapon 058 - 57mm M1950 Gun -correct range 6000 meters = 120 hexes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-60 http://pvo.guns.ru/s60/index.htm http://www.rusarmy.com/pvo/pvo_vsk/zak_s-60.html http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/s-60.htm 20. weapon 059 - 2x57mm AA Gun -correct range 5500 meters = 110 hexes http://pvo.guns.ru/zsu-57-2/index.htm 21. weapon 063 –7.62mm PKT TMG -wrong accuracy, correct accuracy = 24 (length barrel 722mm) http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg07-e.htm 22. weapon 068 - MON Mine - This weapon needs to be cleaned. It is a defensive mine. In game already there are such mines which we buy in defensive missions. http://www.arms.ru/mines/mon-50.htm http://tewton.narod.ru/mines/mon-50.html http://tewton.narod.ru/mines-3/mon-90.html http://mega.km.ru/Weaponry/encyclop....picNumber=2574 23. weapon 069 and 070 - 14.5mm KPV BMG and 14.5mm KPV CMG - This weapon needs to be cleaned. At tank T-10M 2 machine guns 14.5mm KPV TMG (080 no CMG) and 14.5mm KPV AAMG (056) are used. There are no data about that that on SU-100 the machine gun 14.5mm KPV BMG was used. 24. weapon 072 - 76mm D56TM A -correct name 76mm D56T, aim range 4000 meters = 80 hexes, sabot range 2000 meters=40 hexes. http://www.rustrana.ru/article.php?nid=741&sq=19,27,64,82,100,606&crypt= http://armoured.vif2.ru/pt-76.htm 25. weapon 073 - 100mm D10 44 -correct name 100mm D10T Gun -correct range 80 hexes -4000 meters, sabot range 40 hexes. This weapon and weapon 090 -clone. http://balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attac...php?item=14083 http://forums.airbase.ru/2005/12/t36...ye-pushki.html 26. weapon 084 - 73mm 2A28 Grom -error, correct AP penetration = 222. 27. weapon 085 - 100mm BS-3 49 -correct name 100mm BS-3 60. 28. weapon 086 - 76mm D56TM B -correct name 76mm D56TS, aim range 4000 meters = 80 hexes, sabot range 2000 meters=40 hexes, correct AP penetration = 15. http://www.rustrana.ru/article.php?nid=741&sq=19,27,64,82,100,606&crypt= http://armoured.vif2.ru/pt-76.htm 29. weapon 087 - 85mm D-48 Gun -correct AP penetration = 19, sabot range = 20. http://legion.wplus.net/guide/army/ar/d48.shtml http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...protivotank/9/ 30. weapon 088 - 57mm CH-51m Gun -correct accuracy = 20, caliber 80,5. http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...siaartyorbm/5/ 31. weapon 090 - 100mm D10T 49 -clone weapon 073. This weapon needs to be cleaned. 32. weapon 093 - 120mm 2A60 Nona -Iam think correct name 120mm Nona-Gun. This weapon is used for many units. But actually it is an ammunition which is used for all by a kind of mortars of type Nona. I suggest to rename. 33. weapon 094 - 122mm D-25T -correct accuracy =12, length barrel 5933mm = 48,6 caliber, correct range 5000meters=100 hexes http://armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/WWII/isu122/isu122.php http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%...0%A3-122%D0%A1 http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%D0%A1-2 34. weapon 097 - 100mm 2A29 65 - Guns 2A19 and 2A29 - from the point of view of game absolutely identical. Correct accuracy 16 = 63 calibres. Iam offer rename - 100mm T-12 Gun. 35. weapon 098 - 122mm M-62 57 -correct name 122mm M-62 T2, This gun was used on tanks T-10M. A gun of high ballistics. HEAT penetration = 450mm, sabot penetration 320mm. accuracy 13 = 53 calibres. http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...siaartyorbm/6/ http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...abrontanki/10/ http://armoured.vif2.ru/t-10.htm 36. weapon 099 - 122mm M-62 68 - I do not have any data that this gun or shells for it were modernised. I think this weapon it is necessary to clean. 37. weapon 102 - 300mm Rocket-CM -wrong range. The weight of head parts of rockets from Smerch - is in limits of 250-280 kg. I think HE penetration and HE Kill - Should be more than 80 and 70. The maximum range of shooting by rockets of 70-90 km. Correct range will be = 255. http://www.new-factoria.ru/missile/w...h/smerch.shtml 38. weapon 103 - 152mm D20 Gun -wrong name, correct name 152mm ML20S Gun, used in ISU-152, accuracy 7 = 29 calibres, HEAT penetration 25. http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%D0%A1%D0%A3-152 http://armoured.vif2.ru/isu-152.htm 39. weapon 105 - 132mm Rocket -correct name 132mm M-13 Rckt, correct range 170 hexes. http://www.new-factoria.ru/missile/wobb/bm13/bm13.shtml 40. weapon 106 - 220mm Rocket-CM -correct range = 225 hex -35 km. http://www.new-factoria.ru/missile/w...ga/uraga.shtml 41. weapon 108 - 240mm Mortar -correct range 193 hex. http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...siaartymmet/1/ 42. weapon 110 - 122mm D30 FH -iam offer change name to 122mm D-30 FH, accuracy = 10 = 38 calibres. http://www.sudden-strike.ru/news/detail.php?ID=4328 http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...rtypolevaya/8/ 43. weapon 111 - 152mm D20 FH - iam offer change name to 152mm D-20 FH 44. weapon 114 - 152mm D-1 FH -correct HEAT penetration 250mm. http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/152-%D0...%B0_(%D0%94-1) 45. weapon 116 - 180mm S-23 FG - This weapon was delivered for export. For the USSR it has been made only 7 pieces of such guns. 180-mm of gun S-23 were delivered to Syria (in 70th), Egypt, India, Iraq and Somalia. I suggest to clean this gun from Russian OOB. http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...typolevaya/11/ 46. weapon 118 - 203mm 2A44 FG -correct accuracy = 14 = 55,4 calibres. Range HE shell = 37.5 km, HE Jet shell = 47,5 km. http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...siaartyorbm/5/ http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...aartysarty/19/ 47. weapon 122 - 100mm D10T 60 -iam offer rename to 100mm D10TG 60. 48. weapon 123 - 125mm Gun 69 -iam offer clean AP penetration -not used this shells in tanks. 49. weapon 124 - 40mm GP-25 GL -correct range 400 meters = 8 hex. http://gunsite.narod.ru/gp25_30.htm http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%...C%D1%91%D1%82) 50. weapon 125 - 9M32 Strela-2 -correct accuracy 50, sabot range 16, range 68 hexes. http://pvo.guns.ru/pzrk/strela_05.htm#2 51. weapon 127 - 125mm Gun 78 - How to learn that it for shell HEAT = 550mm? 52. weapon 131 - 9M36 Strela-3 -correct accuracy 80, sabot range 10, range 90. http://pvo.guns.ru/pzrk/strela_05.htm#2 http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...ketcomplex/14/ http://www.new-factoria.ru/missile/w...strela_3.shtml 53. weapon 135 - V-75 Dvina -correct name V-750V S-75, accuracy = 40. http://pvo.guns.ru/s75/s75_data.htm http://mvizru84.my1.ru/index/0-10 54. weapon 136 - S-125 Neva -correct name V-600P S-125, accuracy =50. http://pvo.guns.ru/s125/s125.htm http://www.raspletin.ru/production/old/s125.php 55. weapon 137 - 9M8 Krug -wrong name, correct name 3M8 Krug, accuracy 140, HE pen and HE Kill = 150, sabot range 140. http://pvo.guns.ru/krug/krug09.htm 56. weapon 138 - 9M9 Kub -correct name 3M9 Kub, accuracy 140, HE pen and HE kill = 57, sabot range 120. http://pvo.guns.ru/kub/kub6.htm 57. weapon 139 - 9M37 Strela-10 -correct HE pen and HE kill = 3, sabot range 16. http://pvo.guns.ru/strela10/strela10_04.htm 58. weapon 140 - 9M31 Strela-1 -correct HE pen and HE kill = 3, sabot range 10, range =83. http://pvo.guns.ru/strela1/strela1_05.htm#3 59. weapon 141 - 9M33 Osa -correct HE pen and HE kill = 15, sabot range 40, range 180. http://pvo.guns.ru/osa/osa06.htm 60. weapon 142 - 9M311 Tunguska -correct sabot range 40. May be warhead size = 11? http://pvo.guns.ru/panzir/data.htm http://www.new-factoria.ru/missile/w...tunguska.shtml 61. weapon 147 - 9M17 Falanga -correct HEAT penetration 500mm http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...etptcomplex/5/ http://www.new-factoria.ru/missile/w...langa_pv.shtml 62. weapon 151 - 30mm GSh-30K - It is necessary to rename a gun in 30mm 2A72 A/C. accuracy 24, weapon size 6, warhead size 2, he pen 1, he kill 13, ap pen 10, sabot pen 12, sabot range 50, weapon range 80. This gun is easier than 2A42 and for game it almost differs nothing from 2A42, but in this gun we can realise use of a new ammunition 30mm - 3UBR8. http://www.ar-securitytech.com/guns/ground.htm http://btvt.narod.ru/4/bmp3mod.htm 63. weapon 152 - 9M131M Metis-M1 -correct he kill = 17. 64. weapon 157 - 100mm 2A29 79 -it weapon clone weapon 097. Iam offer clean it. 65. weapon 161 - 9M117M Kan -weapon size = 1. 66. weapon 165 - 9M114 Kokon -correct he kill = 17. 67. weapon 166 - 9M113 Konkurs -correct he kill=17. 68. weapon 169 - 9M131 Metis-M -correct he kill=17. This weapon concerns to ATGM last generations - I think accuracy it is necessary to make 90?. 69. weapon 179 - 30mm GSh-30 -correct accuracy = 13 -length barrel 1500mm. If gun 30mm GSh-30K -length 2400mm -accuracy 20. http://www.zid.ru/ru/products/military/gsh30.html 70. weapon 180 - 20mm ShVak -correct accuracy 21 -length variants = 1679mm, 1726mm and 2122mm. http://www.airwar.ru/weapon/guns/shvak.html 71. weapon 182 - 23mm VYa Cannon -correct accuracy 18 -length barrel 1657mm http://www.airwar.ru/weapon/guns/vya23.html 72. weapon 184 - 37mm N-37 -correct accuracy =9 -length barell 1361mm http://www.airwar.ru/weapon/guns/n-37.html 73. weapon 192 -30mm GSh-2-30 -correct accuracy = 13 length 1500mm. http://www.zid.ru/ru/products/military/gsh30.html 74. weapon 202 - 140mm Rocket -correct name 140mm M-14 Rckt. 75. weapon 206 - Kh-23 Kerry -correct name Kh-23 Grom GM 76. weapon 207 - Kh-25 Karen -correct name Kh-25 GM 77. weapon 208 - Kh-29 Kedge -correct name Kh-29 GM 78. weapon 209 - Kh-27 Kegler -correct name Kh-27 ARM 79. weapon 210 - Kh-31 Krypton -correct name Kh-31 ARM 80. weapon 211 - Kh-58U Kilter -correct name Kh-58U ARM 81. weapon 216 - Kh-28 Kyle -correct name Kh-28 ARM 82. weapon 224 - 76mm Naval Gun –correct range 224 http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...artymorarty/2/ 83. weapon 225 - 100mm Naval Gun -correct range 214 http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...artymorarty/2/ 84. weapon 226 - 130mm Naval Gun -correct range 222 http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...artymorarty/2/ 85. weapon 227 - 152mm Naval Gun -correct range 220 http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...artymorarty/1/ 86. weapon 229 - 152mm D20 FH CM -this is weapon clone weapon 111 with ap pen. And ap kill.iam offer clean it weapon. 87. weapon 232 - NS-45 Cannon - This weapon is used on Yak-9K. Yak-9K is a fighter, it is not a bomber. At it arms only this gun and a machine gun 12.7mm. It does not have bombs. Therefore in ours OOB we have suggested to use other planes Yak-9B - They can bear bombs, but they do not have this gun on arms. I suggest to clean this weapon. http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/yak9k.html http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/yak9b.html 88. weapon 234 - 130mm M46 FG 85 - this is weapon clone weapon 115. I suggest to clean this weapon. There are no data about development of this gun or shells for it. 89. weapon 235 - 300mm Rocket - wrong range. The weight of head parts of rockets from Smerch - is in limits of 250-280 kg. I think HE Kill - Should be more than 55. The maximum range of shooting by rockets of 70-90 km. Correct range will be = 255. http://www.new-factoria.ru/missile/w...h/smerch.shtml 89. weapon 238 - 9M119 Refleks - this is weapon clone weapon 172. I suggest to clean this weapon. 90. weapon 240 - 9M133 Kornet -correct HE kill = 19. 91. weapon 241 - 9M33 Osa-M -correct name - 9M33M2 Osa, correct he kill and he pen 15 and 15, correct range 200. http://pvo.guns.ru/osa/osa06.htm 92. weapon 242 - 9M38 Buk-M1 -correct name 9M38 Buk, accuracy =160, warhead size 30, he pen and he kill = 70, sabot range 70, weapon range 255. http://pvo.guns.ru/buk/buk_4.htm http://www.ump.mv.ru/buk_ttx.htm 93. weapon 243 - 9M330 Tor-M -correct name 9M330 Tor, correct sabot range = 30. http://www.kupol.ru/ru/AntiaircraftM...Systems/Tor-M1 http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen...ketcomplex/12/ ================================== If necessary we can help with translation of Russian links. |
Re: Russian weapons v4
"AK74 and AK47 -correct name AK-74 Rifle and AK-47 Rifle"
Maybe you don't see how ridiculous complaints like this look ?? NO.. obviously not. And "3. The weapon 006 - PPS-43 - wrong range - 150 metres - correct range of 200 metres" NO, correct range for SMG's using pistol ammo in this game is 3 hexes max, not 4 and I don't really care what sources you list that say otherwise. You already complained about this previously. Obviously I ignored your recommendation and it's not going to change so if we release another upgrade next year and it's still 3 hexes I supposed you'll include it on the next list as well ? and "22. weapon 068 - MON Mine - This weapon needs to be cleaned. It is a defensive mine. In game already there are such mines which we buy in defensive missions. " MOM mine is in the game for the same reason the claymores are in the US and USMC OOB's. Sorry you disagree but I have no intention of "cleaning" it from the OOB. "89. weapon 238 - 9M119 Refleks - this is weapon clone weapon 172. I suggest to clean this weapon. " Yes, I'm well aware of the duplicate Refleks. There were other weapon changes that resulted in a number of minor scenario problems which I corrected and issued new versions of . Removing one or the other of those would result in much more serious scenario problems so the duplicate stays. "weapon 047 -AZP-23-4 CS Gun - This gun the gun clone - number 057 - it is necessary for cleaning. Shilka without a radar can shoot on any purposes, less precisely. " Yes but it's supposed to represent a vehicle only used against ground targets and if you give it a flak gun it will react to aircraft like a flak gun and when used as a CS it's not supposed to. Look........ Anyone really interested enough to be concerned that we call and "AK47" an "AK47" instead of a "AK-47 Rifle" will use your OOB and we allow you the space to offer it. 99% of the other players know an AK47 or and AK-47 or an AK-47 Rifle are all the same thing. Worrying if we have a hypen is just a bit too much but thanks for taking the time to do so. Just because you find a source that says an RPG-2 had 200 mm of penetration ( for example ) doesn't mean I have to accept if I check other sources and find differing opinions I make a design decision and go with that. I went though most of the list you published previously some things I changed, some things, obviously, I didn't but I will certainly tuck this list away and when I can actually look at an OOB ( especially that OOB ) again without getting a headache I will go though it and anything I agree with I will change and anything I don't , I won't and then next release we can go though this all again. Don |
Re: Russian weapons v4
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Thanks for attention. |
Re: Russian weapons v4
11. weapon 030 - 122mm M30 L22 I have no intention of debating this entire list but perhaps you can explain to us all how the gun used by the SU-122 and the ISU-122 were the same ? Perhaps you have a photo of an SU-122 in service post war with the ISU-122's gun ?? Don |
Re: Russian weapons v4
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It's used exactly the same way the claymores are used in the USMC and USA OOB. It's there to defend against close assaults. If an enemy unit gets within range the weapon will discharge. YOU may not see the point in it but I will remind you this isn't your game. Don |
Re: Russian weapons v4
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From the middle of 50th years on the basis of tank T-54 chassis it has been developed SU-122-54 with a gun 122mm D-49 - this gun is similar to a gun 122mm D-25T. ISU-122 Use a gun 122mm A-19. Further this gun modernised also it has take name D-25. |
Re: Russian weapons v4
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We consider that this list needs to be investigated attentively and if necessary to discuss it at a forum. Best regards |
Re: Russian weapons v4
It would be desirable to wish SP Camo fruitful cooperation with developers national OOB, they deserve that !
Start up even in a year, in new patches we shall see more realism in WinSP. |
Re: Russian weapons v4
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I see. So explain to me why your OOB has SU-122's using the same gun as a IS-2M and a IS-3 and a IS-4 and a T-10 and a T-10B and a ISU-122 in from 1946 to the end of 1954. Please do provide photos of this version of the SU-122. I would be quite interested in seeing them. You imply thatALL SU-122's had the short M30 L22 gun removed and replaced with the D-25T starting 1946 ??? Prove it. Don |
Re: Russian weapons v4
Why we in this theme discuss our OOB?
In this theme I have written that from more 600 made SU-122 with this gun, have a little reached the war end. By the Soviet designers of down M30 it has been recognised by unsuccessful for SU-122 and in August, 1943 manufacture SU-122 has been stopped. Also in design SU-122 there were lacks, for example there was no machine gun. If in this theme to speak about our OOB we never and did not speak that we OOB does not contain errors - the list of changes in it and the found out errors we always published at this forum. We are always ready to discuss errors or discrepancies and to correct them. I will study a question about SU-122 and if we are wrong in more details, we is made changes to our OOB. Best regards. |
Re: Russian weapons v4
After a quick search, I found some pictures of the SU-122-54 aka IT-122.
http://www.dishmodels.ru/wshow.htm?p=457&lng=E SU-122 and SU-122-54 are two different vehicles because one uses the hull of a T-34 and the other uses the hull of the T-54. Additionally, I believe SU-122-54 was developed to be a tank destroyer. I have no clue how many of them were produced (one translated Russian site says only 77). I haven't found anything about World War 2 SU-122s having their howitzers being upgraded to the 122mm D-49. During World War 2, the Russians tried to replace the howitzer but those tanks failed during the trials. |
Re: Russian weapons v4
quote]KraMax said:
Why we in this theme discuss our OOB? [/quote] Why ? Because you're the one claiming the SU-122 as we have modeled in the Russian OOB did not exist with the 122mm M30 L22 gun and that we should "clean" that weapon from the OOB but if we "clean" that weapon from the OOB something must replace it in the vehicle.. yes ? So I took a little peek at your OOB and lo and behold you give your SU-122 the same gun as the IS-2M the IS-3, the IS-4 , the T-10 , the T-10B and the ISU-122 in from 1946 to the end of 1954 so I ask you to justify that with proof and the Russian Wikipedia entry isn't very good "proof". I figured since you posted a list of 93 mostly trivial "errors" in our OOB you wouldn't have a problem with my questioning your work. You really don't consider that MAYBE we don't always think your info was passed down on stone tablets. The range of the RCL's is just one example. So.. show me information on this other weapon the post war SU-122's are supposed to have used. A photo would be a good start especially one of an SU-122 carrying the gun from a T-10 Don |
Re: Russian weapons v4
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Yep... I've seen the photos of that SU-122-54. I would be happier if there was something other than one set of photos in a museum setting. What I'm really curious about are the upgraded post war SU-122's which, as you also discovered, there really isn't anything to be found about them. Don |
Re: Russian weapons v4
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http://www.jedsite.info/tanks-tango/...122-intro.html http://www.jedsite.info/tanks-tango/...2v1-intro.html http://www.jedsite.info/tanks-tango/...2v2-intro.html http://www.jedsite.info/tanks-tango/...2v3-intro.html |
Re: Russian weapons v4
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So.. show me information on this other weapon the post war SU-122's are supposed to have used. A photo would be a good start especially one of an SU-122 carrying the gun from a T-10 Don [/quote] Which I have specified proofs - normal and they are. A problem only in that that you cannot clean in general SU-122 with gun M30 from game. Also it is not necessary to ask from me proofs of presence at SU-122 guns D-25T - I have already written to you that I will study this question and in need of our OOB I will make changes. But from the middle of 50th years appears SU-122-54 is the fact. But in this theme I did not write about identity of gun D-25 and M30. Range of shooting RCL - I have presented to you to proofs of the table of shooting of these tools which are made together with these guns and stand out to soldiers for trainings. But you have ignored them. In this case iron - but you them do not accept my proofs. |
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If you do ever find anything on this post war SU-122 with the upgraded gun let me know Don |
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Gun D-49 under characteristics penetration was equivalent to a gun of heavy tank IS-3. On rotating commander to a turret optical range finder TKD-09 with base of 900 mm has been mounted. The gun unit of fire made 35 shots, and for simplification of work of the charging was used electromechanical loading. For the purpose of reduction of a gassed condition of fighting branch by the compressed air from compressor, and then for the first time the trunk purge at first has been applied to 122-mm of guns - with a purge. With a gun machine gun KPVT the 14,5-mm have been coupled to pneumatic system of the recharge, second machine gun KPVT has been established as the antiaircraft. The unit of fire of machine guns made 600 cartridges. The front armored sheet of the case and fighting cabin of 100 mm was in the thickness continuous and had a corner of an inclination from a vertical of 51 degree. Onboard sheets of cabin of 80 mm have been inclined by thickness under a corner of 26 degrees. Weight - 36 tons Length with a gun - 9,97 metres Length of the case - 6 metres Width of 3.27 metres Height of 2 metres The armour: Case forehead-100mm Board 80mm Forage 45mm Roof and the bottom 20mm Speed of 48 km/h |
Re: Russian weapons v4
Maxim
That's fine you gave the details about the SU-122-54. Its very helpful and FYI I have already built a new Icon for the vehicle but that's not what I was asking "billybob2002" about. OK ? Right from the start it's been about the M30 L22 gun on the WW2 vintage post war Su-122's you want me to "clean" out of the OOB and replace with..... ?? As I already pointed out, you "replaced" that gun in your OOB with the same gun as is mounted on the SU-122-54 and THAT is what I want to see proof of. OK? Right now I'm only interested in hearing about the gun mounted on the WW2 vintage post war Su-122's that existed AFTER WW2 ended and BEFORE the introduction of the SU-122-54. Don |
Re: Russian weapons v4
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Don |
Re: Russian weapons v4
Hi,
may be I can help with some info on SU-122. Bronetankovaya tekhnika SSSR 1939-45, page 22: "Self-propelled gun SU-122. Self-propelled gun for infantry support. Based on chassi of medium tank T-34 with 122mm howitzer M-30. Accepted for service on December 2, 1942. Serial production in UZTM (Sverdlovsk). From December 1942 to August 1943 built 638 pieces." According to polish "monography" on SU-85/100/122 states, that there were 637 pieces. Other modifications of SU-122, though built in as much as 10 machines, were not accepted for service. Since August 1943 thus there were no serial SU-122 in production, until 1955. During 1955 and 1956 there was a small scale prodcution of about 95 SU-122-54, which are a completely different vehicle, than the old venerable SU-122. About the new SU-122-54: "Self-propelled gun SU-122 (object 600). The last soviet self-propelled gun for special purposes based on tank chassis, that was in serial production. Developed since 1949 as a tank destroyer. Accepted for service in 1954. Serial production ran in small series in 1955 and 1956. SU-122 (sometimes designated in literature as SU-122-54) was quite modern self-propelled gun, measured by standards of fifties. Powerful gun, strong armor protection and not bad speed guaranteed it good fighting qualities. It is not possible to determine the number of manufactured machines, but it is known, that factory No. 221 "Barricades" manufactured 65 guns D-49 in 1955 and additional 30 in 1956. In 1957 there was no production. Evidently accepting for service of first generation ATGM, which were much more effective anti-tank weapons, have made further production of SU-122 superfluous. In the middle of sixties it became clear, that blunt nose projectile Br-471B does not penetrate either turret or hull front of American M60 or British Chieftain at any distance. It did not even penetrate front turret of American M48A2, and it came through hull front only under 100 meters..." (Bronetankovaya tekhnika SSSR 1945-95, part 2, page 15) The main gun of these new SU-122 was D-49. As the same text states elsewhere "inner construction of gun barrel, ballistics and ammunition - the same as for D-25T." To summarize - 637 SU-122 based on T-34 had M-30 and were in service from 1943 on (end date not known to me, as well as number that actually survived the war, if any). They were not modernized in any way, AFAIK. 95 new SU-122 based on T-54 had D-49 (essentially the same gun as D-25T) and were in service from 1955 on (end date 1970 or earlier - vehicles were disarmed and used as MTP-3 and other auxiliary machines). Hope that helps a bit. I may look for further details, but I guess there is not much surprise waiting. Regards, badger45 BTW - many many thanks for continuous upgrades and patches. Unbelievable! |
Re: Russian weapons v4
badger45
--------------- thanx for help. |
Re: Russian weapons v4
Quote:
Don |
Re: Russian weapons v4
Here the reference to history of creation and history of war of this gun - SU-122:
http://www.bronetehnika.narod.ru/su122/su122.html http://armour.kiev.ua/Tanks/WWII/SU122/su122.html In the end of this history it is written (machine translator): "... However howitzer SU-122 still remained on arms of samohodno-artillery regiments. In such to a regiment was available 16 SU-122 which up to the beginning of 1944 continued to be used for support of infantry and tanks. However its such application was insufficiently effective because of small initial speed of a shell - 515 km/s - and, hence, small indirect its trajectories. Arriving since August, 1943 in much considerable quantities in armies new SU-85 has quickly replaced the predecessor in the field of fight and nevertheless it is necessary to notice, that capacity of 85-mm of fragmentation shells was insufficient for breaking up of strips of defence of the opponent. Therefore, for example, armoured management of 4th guards tank army in April, 1944 persistently asked the higher organisations to find at least 20 SU-122 as SU-85 were unsuitable for struggle against the strengthened machine-gun points. ... " I suggest to clean this gun # 030 - 122mm M30 L22 from game and SU-122 before occurrence SU-122-54. |
Re: Russian weapons v4
You can do whatever you like with your OOB. In the games OOB the SU-122 with the M30 L22 stays in until the SU-122-54 enters service. What you offer here says NOTHING about it being removed from service after the war and only reinforces it's value in dealing with strong points.
Don |
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