Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

Prince of Death? Cyclops? Wyrm? Manticore? Dragons? Great Enchantress? Which pretender gods have you found to be the most powerful and why? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Either in terms of combat pretenders or rainbows.

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

My favorites at this time are the Ghost King (when I have a lot of design
points), Adonis (the Lord of Rebirth whose magic wonderfully compliments Pythium
and other sacred mage nations) and Athena (the titan, one of the best fighters)

In Role Playing heavy games, I tend to use human nations and human pretenders,
and then it's a toss up between the enchantress and the crone.

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

My favorite is probably a pathless wurm with awe 9-10. I'm a monkey for really good scales and there's no pretender more powerful, or more disposable, than a pathless wurm on turn 1.

Besides that I really like the Gorgon, and Prince of Death.

Jazzepi

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

PoD is imo the most powerful all around by quite a margin.

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

Undervalued, to my mind - is the oracle - which is a great chassis for a sacred strategy (Dom 4, among other things).

I find Baphomet, Dracolich to be great for their particular niche nations.

Overall, I think PoD is most powerful, with cyclops, gorgon and Gaia good choices.

And I'm curious why no one seems to like the dragons?

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

Magicless Kraken has to be up there when playing a water nation at least

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

"PoD is imo the most powerful all around by quite a margin."

just do not attack an s nation, as solar rays is evoc 2, and will kill the pod rather quickly.

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

For Bless nations I tend to use whatever works, but Monoliths, Earth Mothers, and Mothers of Serpents tend to be my favorites.

PoD is an interesting SC, but its no better than a Dragon in the early game when you are killing indies. SC pretenders don't seem to last long against enemy nations, so I don't use them much.

For rainbow mages, the Lich is hands down the best since the other rainbows are so easy to kill. One Fires from Afar or Seeking Arrow and a rainbow Enchantress is down one from four or five paths (though I've turned a few Crones into Wight Mages).

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

Or dust to dust from a death nation.

Jazzepi

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

Or maggots...

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

I'd rate as the top pretenders:

* Gorgon
* Prince of Death
* Cylops
* Agarthan Oracle
* Wyrm
* Oracle
* Kraken
* Colossal Fetish
* Water blessers (mother of rivers, father of winters, lady of springs)

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

Master Lich is good in a big game. It cannot be targeted. He is not big, or flying. He has a zero encumbrance when casting, and has 3 misc slots.

Though he cannot fight like the Lich, or ctis immortal lizard lich, he starts with 3 dominion, rather than 2, and magic paths are 20 instead of 40.

And he is better against an attack than a combat sc, assuming the attack is backed with many mages. As my pretender in perpetuality for ma ctis, he was devastating with banefire/shadow blast. Since he has low hps, i always take air magic for air shield and eventually a shield of valor(seeking arrow).

In Eh II i started him with 5s and 5d, and a couple other paths. With 5 s and immortal, he can magic duel enemy s mages without fear. And with 3 slots, he can wish without the need for empowerment. In fact with robe magi he can reach s 10 without empowerment, and be quite potent with master enslave
without the need for a communion.

instead of using a wish for magical power, the ML really benefits from a wish for power to give him durability.

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

I'm partial to:

Cyclops - good ol' faithful
Natty - too bad she's not available to more nations
Great Enchantress - rainbow mage for magic-weak nations, plus bonus pearls
VQ - undead pretenders are too vulnerable without immortality

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

Hmm, I'm glad everyone has given such interesting responses. But one thing mystifies me: what is a Natty?

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

Nataraja, most likely.


Out of the human-ish rainbows, Great Enchantress is clearly the best. The others' abilities just don't compare with 1 free pearl per turn.

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

Not just the 1 free pearl, but she has two paths to start with and those two are earth and astral, which are always useful and especially as a combination.

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

CB gives other humans similar starting paths, but also gives the Enchantress etherealness. Even without it she'd be worth it for the pearl.

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

Haven't checked the CBM out yet, because I've had more than enough to do with all the other stuff and my non-Dominions activities. If it's anything like the Dom2 CBM, the pretenders at least will be far superior to the base game. The sorceress actually did have etherealness in Dom2, so it's just been returned to normal, as it were.

What I meant was that in addition to the pearl, she had better paths than any of the other rainbows, so she was a complete nobrainer.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

The 'rainbow' Kraken is still my favourite! Being able to expand in early game without wasting money on troops and get a huge gem income very fast combined with a quick research to spam SC commanders is very nice.

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

I prefer rainbow pretenders. Your expansion isnt as quick. However you get early research, early gems searching, and if you survive the early game you have a lot more options with forging and summoning later on. You also dont have to worry about losing your pretender in battle.

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

Cyclop, wyrm, kraken, great enchanteress, gorgon and all immortal pretenders are among the most powerful.

Immobile pretender seem somewhat above the norm due to the high starting dominion and low cost, but they don't move.

Basically, any pretender that can be used out of the box with no or little equipment as an SC, or that can provide you an advantage in mid and late game via immortality or large amount of magic diversity is powerful. Other are rather useless by themselves (even if they may be useful for a powerful bless effect).

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

Lets see, for total usefulness I prefer any rainbows but especially the ones on mounts or flying.

For bless i tend to use the Lord of the Forests a lot. I love the Nature 4-6 and Earth 9 bless in general, especially EA.

For theme my favorite is divine emperor and the Allfather.

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

????

What about man's arch druid - 2 nat gems a month at 35 cost..

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

Prince of Death or Cyclops. For reference, see the current Team Game. All of the experienced players have either a PoD or a Clops.

I would love to have the Dragons be better SC pretenders. I personally love to take a Dragon, but there always seem to be better choices available.

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

The druid riding a unicorn? I didn't remember his special. I haven't been playing Man.

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

He's available to the Tuatha, Eriu and Man. So a restricted pretender, hence not as all around powerful as the enchantress which is available for all nations. The enchantress also has one more item slot that can be used to wear a booster. Mounted units do not have foot slots for items.

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

Just curious, what makes the prince of death so good? Although the stat line looks not that bad, 45 HP seems a bit low to me. And unlike the Gorgon, the PoD doesn't seem to have any uber skills for the lack of hit points. Also no incuperation to protect against afflictions which can happen very fast with low HP. The only really special thing he has besides flying is his abnormal high fear value of 13. However, I'm not sure how good it works out against indies.

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

It works great. You get additional fear from more death magic level and you get get awe from dom9/10. With items you can easily get fear over 20. Though single wyrm will win 1:1.

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

The fear effect and that he is inmune to lost of afflictions, not because he does not receive tyhem but because they do not bother him. Limp? Don't mind, morale loss? don't care, cripled or weaknes, ... so he will stack lots of heart but will not bother him at all and with death 4-6 his fear scales a lot and after 2-4 hits indies run.

Of course, be carefull with heavy cavalry and such but otherwise you can nearly attack blindly turn 0.

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

Hmm, is this normal for undead or is just a hidden ability, because I can't find it anywhere in the description?

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

By inmune I mean that he does not care, he is equaly capable of doing his work with those afflictions and without them.

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

He also has the advantage of being stealthy, which is a big boon for human-mage pretenders, since IIRC it protects you 100% from normal assassination attempts.

...Although I believe he normally only produces 1 gem; I think CBM ups the rate to two gems.

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

Is this is order from most to least powerful? And what is the Colossal Fetish? Is it the same as the Colossal Head that EA Mictlan gets?

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

What's special about the Lord of Rebirth's bless? Is it just the E + N bless, or is there something about his D path that is useful too? I do notice that he is the only E+N pretender for some nations.

And which pretender is Athena? Do you mean the generic Titan with the golden shield and E and A magic?

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

Athena is the female titan, with Owl and I think Nature/Astral picks or something.

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

Roughly from best to least, but between some pretenders being national only, and some not being primarily for combat, it's tough to compare. I do think it would be very rare I'd pick something besides those in the base game though. The fetish is a Mackaka only pretender.

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

Hmm, the titan with the huge research bonus? Looks like MA Pythium gets her. I can see how she would be useful to start with awake for getting a research lead, but why is she a good fighter? She looks more or less equivalent to the other size 6 titans, which the exception of taking a large opportunity cost penalty for using her in the field since you would not be getting her research. Maybe Athena is something else?

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

Pallas Athena is the Greek goddess after whom the city of Athens was named. She is goddess of wisdom and the art of war, and characterized by owl, the wise bird; she is often described with a helmet and a spear. The female titan is Athena just as clearly as the male one is Zeus and Forge Lord is Hephaestus.

She has att/def 15 (3 better than most titans), and I'd imagine the Owl allows her to repel anything. Astral gives great self-buffs, nature gives regeneration, and early game she's only missing the Air buffs AFAIK. I could be wrong on that, as I'm not good at thugs.

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

Actually, every titan shape pretender (Size >= 5 + full equipment slots) can be turned into a top fighter by giving them the trample boots. It's great because you don't have to care about any attack stats and can just focus on making him an invincible fortress. You only need to rush to construction 2 for that at the start.
I'm not a big fan of the low HP pretenders. They die too easily if anything unexpected happens. At least that's my experience...

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

Be very careful with the trample boots. You need a lot of reinvigoration, since trample is exhausting.
And if you've neglected regular attacks, you're also vulnerable when you unexpectedly come up against size 6 opponents.

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

I know that, but this is usually more a point in later stages of the game when you also have access to reinvigoration items. Trample also kills regular units unbelievable fast. No even barbarians are a problem, and I can't say that about a lot of other pretenders I tried. Further, trample boots have the great advantage that you can take them off when you think you have better stuff available. It's simply a great way to comletely dominate all indie provinces at the start.

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

I always preferred frost/firebrand with boots of quickness at start, if possible. Well, cept D9 Gorgon with the boots of trampling is pure comedy, I must admit.....

Anywho, I reckon everyone loves the Cyclops and whatnot, so I will list my niche favorites-

Void Lord - soooo fun SC for R'lyeh
Jade Emperor - very thematic, cost effective, and cool RB chassis for TC
Frost Father - why did no one else mention him? I love this guy for Niefelheim et al
Virtue - my favorite awake SC (SEMI-combatant), I have one word for you, FLAMBEAU! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

In 95% cases trampling works much better than other weapons against indies, PD, chaff.

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

In what sense is a D9 Gorgon powerful? Taking a death bless doesn't seem too powerful and a Gorgon is only size 4, which doesn't make a very good trampler...

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

Careful with the terminology. Surely you meant Father of Winters, the titan-type SC chassis and not Frost Father, the A1W1 human rainbow pretender?

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

I don't know what the D9 bless has to do with it (typo for E9?), but trampling tends to take you right into the middle of the enemy units, which with the Gorgons means they will... evaporate. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

-Max

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

Nono.

In my mind, especially for Nief, the Father of Winters is pointless. Niefel Jarls are all the SC you really need. I use the Frost Father for a 9W bless, and then fill him out with lower level paths for constructing items for the big guys.

Now, since Jotunheim and Utgard don't get the big Jarls, the FoW might be worth using, but he seems a horrible waste for Nief.


(Edit) - And for the D9 Gorgon, it's for the fear effect. Kind of handy for a solo SC, no? O.o

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

Hmm, yeah I can see how D9 for the extra would be fun, but very expensive. A horror helm will also give you +5 fear iirc.

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

Indeed, which stacks with her innate aura, and the D9 bonus. Considering that the death bless isn't useless (just less powerful than fire), if you use her to good effect, it's capable of being just as worthwhile. Properly geared, in late game she can slaughter commanders/casters with near impunity.

Re: Who are the most powerful pretenders?
 

Sounds fun. Won't work against a human, but fun in SP, which is what I play anyway. Maybe I'll try it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

-Max