The First Mega Game International Bank
 

(The charter for the bank is currently on hold until the game begins. At this point I'm leaning toward the removal of the organizational aspects of the concept and to refit it as a internal treaty for players to sign. A separate thread could be then used to contain public agreements, which would then become binding.)


First Mega Game International Bank

Charter: The First Mega Game International Bank is a coalition of share holding nations who provide for other nations temporary income to be repaid at a modest but fair interest rate. The share holders will directly receive profits equivalent to their investment. This bank is exclusively for the Mega Age II Kingmaker game.

Organizational Notes
1. Applications for loans will be submitted to the bank's email, first.mega.game.bank at gmail.com. From there a banking executive will process the application.
2. If a loan is accepted, the executive, not the applicant, will publicly post the transaction in the First Mega Game International Bank thread and notify relevant shareholders. The post will include the terms of the loan.
3. Share holders will notify executives upon the initial completion of their turn, what funds they have available for disbursement. Funds will be disbursed in the order in which the notifications are received.
4. Funds will travel directly between the share holders and the client. Executives will not hold onto funds meant for another player.
5. All shareholders must agree not to trade with blacklisted players and may be asked to provide assistance in "collection". "Collections" may also be outsourced to non-shareholders.
6. Only shareholders can request that a nation be placed on the blacklist. The shareholder must have cited reasons.
7. If an executive is removed from office or resigns another shareholder can take his place and be given access to the bank's email address.

Membership: Is open to all players.

Application for Membership
1. PM application to first.mega.game.bank at gmail.com. Label the email "Bank Membership".
2. Include your player name, race.
3. Also include your excess gold for your initial turn. (This will help with disbursing initial turn loans.)

Current Interest Rate: 7% compounded per turn
Current Funds Available: <not available at this time>

Blacklisted Nations
<none>

Applications for Loans
1. PM application to first.mega.game.bank at gmail.com Label the email "Loan Application".
2. Include your player name, race, and what you would like to loan and for what amount.
3. Offers of collateral or insurance provided by another nation will greatly improve your chances of acceptance.

Re: The First Mega Game International Bank
 

Help.

Re: The First Mega Game International Bank
 

Seven percent compounded monthly interest. You should be killed just for that.

Re: The First Mega Game International Bank
 

I'd imagine that most loans, at least most loans that we would be willing to accept, would not exceed a month or two before the full amount is returned. It's more for people who don't want to wait another turn to start building that third castle or for people who need a quick gladiator infusion. I don't want to encourage people to overstep their bounds by planning much further ahead then they should.

Re: The First Mega Game International Bank
 

Kill the evil *ankers! Of course, the * is a b and not a w! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Of course this is just a joke... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Just in case I have to come to you cap in hand. Cool idea btw.

Re: The First Mega Game International Bank
 

Interesting.

Do you collect paper money for the dead as well? There is huge demand paper money in hell (Yomi).

The Second Mega Game International Bank
 

In the spirit of capitalism, I'd like to announce the opening of the Second Mega Game International Bank

Any free-market capitalist knows that without competition, you the consumer will be screwed by the large banks.

This bank, hereby known as Eriu Trust, will give the nations of Kingmaker a choice, and force the loan interest rates low.

Loans will be administered on a collateral-only basis (i.e. you hand over a Fire Brand until your loan is repaid). PM requests to me.

Outstanding debts will be listed on this post; any parties interested in purchasing outstanding debts can also PM me.

I will update this post as the interest rate changes. Let's see where the free market will take us...
[b]Current Loan Interest Rate: 6% per turn[b]

The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

If all the banks will be in one thread, I would like to announce the third bank--the Bank of Ulm.

We do not pretend to be the same as the other banks. Any nation may use the BoU--no nation, not even an enemy of Ulm, is blacklisted. Any nation may sign up to contribute to the BoU funds, which will be carefully recorded by Ulm itself. Ulm also offers one thing the others do not--a gem store. Nations may take loaned gems from the BoU at a 10%, non-compounded interest rate, rounded up, for gem loans of less than 10 gems. 10-40 gem loans are a 5% interest rate. Gem loans of 40-100 are 2.5%. Finally, 100+ loans are 1%. Gold may be loaned at a 2%, compounded rate. One may even dip into the stores of Ulm itself--at 3x the interest, of course. All debts of 750+ gold or 65+ gems will be posted in the Bank thread.

Finally, for those not interested in other options, the Bank of Ulm may open up an item branch, handled only by the most trustworhy nations. Remember--search for diversity, search for a cheap option, search for Ulm!

Also, in order to entice funds, the Bank of Ulm will provide a 1% interest on all deposits into the Bank. After 12 turns, deposits may be taken back out; no less than one year.

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

I am already worried about the, 'credit crunch' http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

I am going with whoever won't charge me to use their ATMs.

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

The Bank of Ulm needs no ATMs--in an incredible breakthrough, the Bank has interfaced with Astral strands and is now available wherever there is a lab! This makes the BoU both the easiest to access and cheapest to use bank! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Unless, of course, you don't pay back your loan, in which case thugs will come to your door at midnight and steal you away to Bank HQ.

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

While this idea is nice in theory I'm not so sure I like it in practice. Mostly because it potentially adds a totally unneeded level of complexity to the game and smells a bit like pre-game alliance between the bank nations.

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

this may be a stupid question but what is this, and what will this actually do

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

I'll see if I can explain this correctly. "Banks" are essentially deposits of funds. One can take out funds at interest, and must eventually pay back the funds. Some banks(ie, me) have taken it a bit further and are applying it to other areas (Next branch of BoU: the Global Spell Branch!). Of course, there's going to be enforcement so no one can game any systems. And it's still a bit unclear on where the interest goes in each individual bank (I know I'll either take all the interest for myself or split it half-and-half with the bank funds).

Basically, you're trusting people not to take all the banks money and never use any, and people are trusting you not to just absorb all the funds they give you.
How is this complex? "Give bank funds, bank loans funds, funds are paid back with interest, wash, repeat" (at least for the BoU). Though I do see what you mean about pre-game alliances; perhaps we should wait for signing up until the game starts?

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

Is there opening an insurance company? I'd like to insure my labs against fire, my temples against earthquakes, my troops against damages of my routing MA Caelum mammuts and my provinces against unfriendly take-overs. Please pm me your offers.

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

the idea makes sense but the real problem is how will you be able to trust somebody with your money. The only time you are really desperate for money is in the begging of the game

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

Some nations just can't seem to gather enough funds for that next castle. Taking out a loan can easily do the trick . . .

And about the trust issue, well, you can probably trust the first poster and me. The first poster because a scam wouldn't take such incredible detail; me because lying would damage my forging income.

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

Why would anyone go through all this just to get some extra gold when they can just jack up thier taxes??

It even has exactly the same mechanic - more gold now at the cost of less gold later. The only bank to provide an interesting service is the Bank of Ulm, because they loan gems.

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

Jacking up taxes also kills population--sure, 200% tax rate will get you the same amount of gold, but it'll kill quite a bit of population and affect everything in that province. Not to mention that you need units to keep the unrest low, which somewhat dampens the use of increasing taxes. Unless you use undead to patrol, which is usually hard to do unless you're Ermor.

And don't forget, if the population demands it, the Bank of Ulm will open an item branch.

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

As long as the people who control the loans are honest this could work out very well. For item forging Bogarus would have an easier time, because as long as they get Baba Yaga they can forge anything

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

Now I feel like jumping in that MegaGame just to take loans from everybody and not pay a single cent back.

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

Yeah, I have to say too that I would have little interest in paying a loan back, unless the bank in question was next to me, and could come kick my *** to get their money back. Which would be extremely unlikely early game, in a game this huge.

Of course I would be blacklisted for that, but I would get that initial 1000 gold or whatever... very useful in the early game. And, I would know right off the bat who my enemies were (the Banks).

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

don't take loans from these shysters!!!

They give a little money to help get you going, but then you have to adhere to their "structural adjustment policy", and next thing you know you're their forge beyotch.

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

You forget, people might be angry when they learn the Bank doesn't their 900 gold since someone stole it.
Ulm is Ulm's forge beyotch. See? The BoU is the best option, ignore those other fools! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/stupid.gif

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

Its not very polite to copy a concept and then advertise your copied concept in the originals advertisement i think http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

I'm a believer of player honesty. You could of course regard me as a fool, however, I don't consider online gaming to be anything like a vacuous environment. Yeah you could take the money and run, but that experience will carry over to other games. Besides, what makes you think I'm not already constructing the blacklist...

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

I'm pretty sure dominions is not about being polite.

Jazzepi

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

R'Lyeh's currency is sentient creature's brains so I'm not sure how interest works in regards to cerebral material.

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

Big part of fun in the first megagame was the feeling of initial chaos and free-for-all in the beginning. I'd continue the impolite line by rudely pointing out that prior to game arranged deals which smell like informal alliance of up to 12 nations do not serve the "fun" for the disorganized rest.

Therefore, I Approve all the trashing this thread has gathered. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

I completely agree, honestly. Do people really expect the bankers to attack each other if they get assigned capitals next to each other?

I HEREBY ANNOUNCE THE ANTIBANKING SOCIALISTIC REPUBLIC OF EARTH, otherwise known as ASRE! Let's join sickles against the evil corporate banking tyrants!

Jazzepi

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

You don't mean Antibanking Republic of Socialist Earth, by any chance?

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

Ummm, cause making a blacklist before you have actual cause to do so would make this whole bank thing just an excercise in pre-game alliances. Thats really bad form!

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

You got me D:

Jazzepi

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

I don't see why shareholders can't attack each other. The only service being provided is a front where people can request funds and executives redirect them to other nations. That and a collectively agreed upon interest rate. If a shareholder wants to attack me, that's fine. Nothing in the charter prohibits this from happening.

The only provision for military action is against those that break the trust of the nations they loan from. The real point is not pre-game alliance, but rather a agreement amongst players that foul play will not be tolerated. The only reason to make this as formal as it is, is because loaning is rarely done in dominion games and I want to exercise it in a way I think would allow it to actually work.

Let's face it, anyone can grant a loan, however, if you are just one nation then you have almost no guarantee that the money will come back. If it makes people feel better I am willing to open the trust up to everyone. This ensures that if someone wants to con another player, all other players will respond to the act.

Ironhawk is right by the way, making a blacklist without reason is indeed bad form. However, if I do plan on putting a player on the list, I assure you I will have good reasons for doing so. I will be ready with direct links to comments from or about that player concerning their trustworthiness in previous games. It will be based on a history and not a singular event. I take the matter seriously.

Dominions International Commodities Exchange
 

Each game Turn, DICE will announce the current prices of gems, in the following format:

Buy Sell
Dice Buys your Gems Dice Sells you Gems

Fire 16 18
Air 10 12
Earth 11 13
Water 10 12
Sorcery 10 12
Death 11 13
Blood 16 18

Each turn, if people wish to buy gems, and none are available, the price will increase by 1. Conversely, on turns where there are sellers but no buyers.. the prices will decrease by 1.

Each turn, the adjusted prices will be announced via message to everyone.

PS: KO - it would be really handy if you had an Exchange Order.. AKA: I will trade 5 fire gems for 78 gold. If both parties match - the trade is executed. And its not hard to impliment....

Re: Dominions International Commodities Exchange
 

Now this I could get behind. A place to buy those few extra gems needed, and to sell the ones you don't need. The person running this would probably never get attacked... they are just too damn useful to everyone. Of course, it would end up being micromanagement hell for the that person, worse than being a forge *****, and I can't imagine the game would be very fun for them.

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

I was talking more about the two "executives" than the other of the 10 members. Really this whole thing smacks of a pregame alliance. Of course someone "can" attack someone else who is in a pregame alliance with them, but let's be honest, everyone who is part of this bank is obviously not going to attack each other. It's not just tacitly implied by the circumstances of the game, it doesn't make sense to attack a free, close ally who is part of a larger organization.

Jazzepi

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

Yeah I agree with Jazzepi. While I think a gold bank is superflous anyway, the fact that it is controlled by a closed society of players who can choose how and when to enforce policy just makes it all wrong. Its a recipe not only for pre-game abuses but in-game abuses as well. If I were in the Megagame I would object to the existence of this thing.

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

anyway those pplz seem to be closer to eachother anyway so them attacking eachother is less likely in any case... if this is not allowed (and how can you not allow trading) they'll just be angry at the rest and still help eachother http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

Jazzepi whatever its called I'm with you. Down with capitalism! Yay!!

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

Hey guys!

First, ya either trust your opponents to be honorable - or you don't. And if ya don't - why play? Specifically, that people are not playing as friends.

I've never met, nor played with, any of the fine gentleman alluded to in the previous post. I mean honestly, if I had a secret agenda - why would we post it? Much more logical to keep it secret, isn't it?

Secondly, how can anyone complain about an organization that anyone can join?

Now I've gotten a pm about pregame alliances being distasteful - and indeed some here have made a post about that. And I would like to prompt discussion on that point.

To me, a pregame alliance - is going into the game with a hidden agenda - working with people you know - a hidden advantage that is unfair.

To which I'd like to bring up for discussion a few points:
Haven't nations been assigned, aren't we designing pretenders, refreshing ourselves on the abilities of our nation? I know I am. In short - aren't we already playing the game?

How does diplomacy at this instant.. vary one whit.. from diplomacy conducted once we receive our starting positions? How is it any more or less fair?

Secondly, I think the unfairness of this, if it exists which I don't think it does, is FAR dwarfed by 'diplomacy' already inherent in the game. For example, can any of you, but especially the veterans, say that you honestly wouldn't think twice about attacking Baalz - just because he *IS* a veteran - especially if you have another possible target? And I have a suspicion that as a new player I have similarly been targeted.

Similarly, aren't there some nations that are known weak, that you would look hungrily upon? For fire nations, aren't you less likely to attack other fire nations? How about who *your* neighbors are?

Aren't these factors likely to be much determinative of game behavior?

Now some have said:

"Pregame alliances are bad. Lets form an alliance to oppose these evil bankers."

Now in-game, I think thats all kosher and in fact good fun. Out-of-game I have to question both your logic - and the firmness of your convictions.

Lastly, I love to compete, and I love to play, and diplomacize. I find reading about the bank, and AntiBank, and the Bank of Ulm, and setting up D.I.C.E - fun. But I'd really hate for their to be hard feelings out-of-game because of it.

So what do *you* think?

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

Thank you chrispedersen, I was starting to become quite jaded by the discussion up until this point. Clearly what I thought was a dialog was instead a conversation with a wall.

As for what I think, I think that I've tried my best to listen to everyone's opinion and revise accordingly. I think the actual discussion is being overshadowed by 'pre-game alliance'. A set of words that haven't been defined, is disliked without reasons provided, and doesn't distinguish itself from any other alliance aside from it's timing.

Is an alliance that develops prior to the start of the game an unfair advantage. Yes. However, so is every other alliance ever concocted. It is in the nature of an alliance to be unfair, not it's timing. Any two nations teaming up to fight individual nations is of course an advantage to the allied nations. That's why people form alliances in the first place, to gain an advantage. Besides, chrispedersen brings up an interesting point, the game has in actuality started. I would even go so far as to say that this is the weakest alliance I could create, as I'm not even sure members could help me if I needed them to. Alliances or more effective with more knowledge, not the other way around.

That said, I don't think that the nature of both me and another player being executives is indeed a pre-game alliance. I simply don't think I could administer what I propose all on my own. Unoptimized is an executive because I think I can trust him to do the job and because he has more frequent access to the internet then me. I'm sure he won't mind if anyone of you want to take his place. I created the email address so that I could move the responsibility to other players. Had I wanted to job exclusively, I would have just used personal messages as the means of communication.

In closing, I honestly don't think most of you even know why your clamoring about. I've already stated my purpose from the onset. I understand the possibility of abuse, but as far as I can see, it is simply whether a person keeps their money or instead gets to give it away for the promise of interest. Or that I might deny curtain players from obtaining a loan, but that just means that they deal with what they have, just like a player normally would. There is a lot more to be gained in my opinion. The fact that I'm willing to renominate executives should settle the last of your worries, and yes I would gladly give up my position as well if it meant that we could have some level of insurance.

Thank you and good luck to us all.

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

Yomi is a strong supporter of any banking industry that uses paper money.

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

If the customer wants, Ulm shall supply! There shall be enough paper money that it'll be cheaper to burn it than buy wood!

Also, about the pre-game alliance stuff, well, other people have said it better than I could (probably because I was waiting for someone to win the debate and hoping I wouldn't have to close shop before shop opened). And it's nice to know that I have a fan http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Although about 'refreshing ourselves on the abilities of our nation', since I've only played Ulm in the Dominions II demo, I've got practically no idea what to expect mid- and late-game. That argument doesn't necessarily apply to new people. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

@AoE (and other bankers):

I saw that you've got a third member in your bank. Given the sentiments on some players regarding pre-game-start alliances I think it might be wise to wait with applications on membership until the game starts.

I like the metagaming idea of the bank, and it might be nice to know the dynamics and organization of it before the game starts, but since the game has not officially started yet it might be best if you waited with the in-game stuff, membership etc until the game actually starts.

That way I don't think anyone will have anything against the idea.


A bit off topic: I once played a fantasy PBEM game with 12 players. It went well. I defeated a neighbour or two, as did some other players. I ended up in an alliance with two other players pretty early on. Probably because we were the ones that communicated at all. We ended up in a war with another strong player and suddenly the game ended !?! All small nations and dropouts had been defeated and the strongest player had joined our alliance and game mechanics ended the game. Most annoying. One reason I dislike built in diplomacy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Why do I mention this? If there is a big alliance before the game starts and everyone likes to be in, there is no need for war, and no one dares to be left out. Thus all live in a happy democratic banking environ. Thus better to start banks etc when the game has started and a few alliances and grudges build up regardless of meta gaming policies.

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

Ok.. well with that .. I'll think I'll just back off and concentrate on D.I.C.E.

Does anyone have comment on whether prices are in the ballpark?

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

A bit cheap maybe, but it really depends on the situation. Usually in the beginning gems aren't worth much but later on the going price does increase considerably.

If you're planning on stocking on each gem in order to facilitate a working DICE, good luck. But wouldn't it be easier for two parties just to agree on exchange with a middle price, thus saving money and cutting you off?

I personally felt the market thread of Perpetuality worked quite well with exchange economy. Yet if people insist on bringing capitalist market devices in essentially non-capitalist environment, feel free to prove me wrong. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: The Third Mega Game International Bank
 

As Kingmaker has started, I'll give out a bit more info regarding the Bank of Ulm.

The Bank of Ulm will (probably) be closed until the beginning of year two, at which point Ulm will (probably) donate 500 gold and perhaps 10 or so gems to the BoU. As no one wants someone taking all of the Bank's precious gold and gems, the bankers will refuse some offers for loans if they think it outrageous.

Also, the Bank has set up a prestigious organization which any nation can join, the Favored Customers of Ulm. For a measly donation of 100+50*years-after-bank-opened gold and 1+.5*years-after-bank-opened gems of any type to the Bank of Ulm, any nation can become a Favored Customer of Ulm for twelve full months, or one year! With this comes an as-yet-undisclosed discount on gem and/or gold interest rates and an as-yet-undisclosed discount on items hot off the forges of Ulm, Forges of Ulm! The Guild of Bankers of Ulm would like to thank Monny, god of Ulm, for his participation in FCoU, and all of its future customers for trying the services they offer.