I was looking at Patala, and it seems to have a
 

bugged morale for the Yogi, the S1 mage. His morale is 7. Seven????? Is there any mage in the game with a morale of 7 besides him? Also, the Brahmin priest, who I know is useless, also seems to have a morale of 7. It doesn't matter, but shouldn't a priest have a higher morale?

A morale of 7 is lower than militia! Is an S1 mage really more of a coward than an untrained farmer? I guess he really doesn't care what he is 'reborn' as, because given his courage, it's going to be a Markata.

Re: I was looking at Patala, and it seems to have a
 

Maybe they're pacifists? (Is that thematic?) If it happens twice it's probably on purpose.

It does suggest that Earthquake/Rain of Stones/Bone Grinder/etc. would be great against Patala.

-Max

Re: I was looking at Patala, and it seems to have
 

... and take a look on their PD.

Its a conspiracy!



Nope, not really. They are just cowardly apes!

Re: I was looking at Patala, and it seems to have
 

Now that looks like a point that's open to debate. Who starts?

Re: I was looking at Patala, and it seems to have
 

I believe someone already created a topic complaining about the weak PD for monkeys. The weak PD is extremely noticable and painful on large maps.

Further back I recall a topic where it was agreed Machaka had the weakest PD in the game. Low morale, no shield, only a spear, no armor and zero protection...
it's official these fellas die from tennis balls.

Re: I was looking at Patala, and it seems to have
 

I can't imagine anything weaker than Niefel/Jotun PD. They get 1 Jotun Militia for 2 points of defense and this can really stop nothing.
While this is a good nerf for Niefel, Jotuns don't need such nerf, imo.

Re: I was looking at Patala, and it seems to have
 

munkey pd is teh weekest it is always loosing just look in ne game u will c 4 urslef

Re: I was looking at Patala, and it seems to have
 

The point when I realized New Ulm, made by Sombre, was absurd is when I tried to count the freespawn I would have coming at me after New Ulm went AI in a game I was playing. It was around 4,000. No, not 400, 4,000. This from a nation that had been brought to AI by a poor player and massive military losses. Still had 4,000 freespawn. Before the big war, probably around 6,000+. Everyone one of them non-mindless, BLESSABLE, non-undead flail wielding units. But that wasn't what drove it in.

It was when I watched a Hoch-Hammer without any equipment at all kill a fully-equiped Tartarian. The Tartarian had Luck, Invincibility, and 34 Hp of reg. a turn. Now I understand that old Sombre didn't ACTUALLY WANT the Hoch-Hammer to be able to kill a fully equiped Tartarian without any equipment at all, he just forgot how missile units keep firing after they run out of ammo. A mistake, but a fairly big on. But when your maxing a race as hard as possible, it becomes difficult to avoid little slips like that.

So old Sombre has a little trouble with that 'balance' concept there.

Re: I was looking at Patala, and it seems to have
 

Its not like you to hold back like this http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

"poor player" ? Come on - I was truly abysmal as I cast around looking for a strategy before finally deciding to go without one and attack one of my more powerful neighbours without engaging in any diplomacy with any of my other neighbours.

Poor does it no justice at all http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

edited to remove errant smiley

Re: I was looking at Patala, and it seems to have
 

What the hell does that have to do with this thread, or with anything?

If you want to ***** about the balance of Ulm Reborn do so in an Ulm Reborn thread where other people who've used Ulm Reborn can discuss it. And I say *****ing because that's what it sounds like; rather than offering useful constructive criticism you're just trying to take a shot at me for whatever reason. If you want something changed, not exactly the right way to go about it.

I didn't forget that units that are out of ammo keep firing. I had no idea that happened. I've never seen it happen in a game or read anything on the forums about it.

Would anyone else who has played one of my mod nations and read its thread accuse me of purposely 'maxing' them? Ridiculous.

Re: I was looking at Patala, and it seems to have
 

Well, it is for sure not maxing, their everywhere mages are far too crappy for that, in late age many(most?) nations have decent battle mages recruitable everywhere, or summonable in the case of 'dark' ulm. But their army is powerfull early on, which can make some people think they are overpowered. Sure a strong army wont bring you to victory if you don't crush everyone early on.
In fact I only played a game with them, because I play 380+ provinces maps, and I hate to have to gamble for indep mages.
I realise I know almost only play nations with decent everywhere mages.

Re: I was looking at Patala, and it seems to have
 

Digress, I apologize if I upset you, that wasn't my intention. The only reason I said that was to avoid the "New Ulm lost, so that means it wasn't imbalanced!" argument. People have all levels of skill, and Pangaea is a rock-solid player, and as a result you were poorly matched. He is dealing with my deranged play very effectively as well. I was certainly not trying to insult you. Pangaea may very well win the game. So you were defeated by #1 out of 21 players or #2. Not something to be upset about. But I WAS upset at Sombre, he knows better, and should keep out of arguments if he has nothing useful to say.

Re: I was looking at Patala, and it seems to have
 

Sombre is making fun of an old discussion where some people argued that the monkey nations were useless, basing their whole argument into few details and refusing to discuss opposing arguments. I didn't really follow that discussion. Try searching for "monkey pd" if you're interested; the discussion took place sometime last summer or fall.

Re: I was looking at Patala, and it seems to have
 

Of course they do. Anyone can send a thug without damage ability to fight PD with crossbows and witness it themselves.

Once the ammo runs out, they charge, and then point-blank fire.

Or maybe it was the Penitents or the 2 trolls that killed the Tartarian. Yeah, the two trolls couldn't even dish out enough damage to kill the Tartarian if it were paralyzed, and had a protection of 0. The Luck and the Regen alone would stop them. Of course, the Invincibility completely neutralizes the Pentitents BY ITSELF. So yeah, one Hoch-Hammer killed a fully-equiped Tartarian.

Have you heard the one about glass houses, Sombre?

*edit*
I just checked, and crossbowman look like they fire more volleys than that, but that is because some are out of range in the beginning, and some are not, so they fire every round.. but only half or so fire, so you get a count of around 20 volleys. But only half or so are firing every volley.

So I officially have no idea how Hoch-boy killed a Tartanian, except that the Tartanian did die with nothing but Hoch Hammer, Penitents, and two trolls.
It had cast:
<Invunerbility><Earth Power><Iron Will><hold><hold><Attack Closest>. It had luck from an item, regen of 20%, and a base hitpoints of 170. None of the others have anything like the damage capacity to bring him down. It's possible the Hoch Hammer 'saved' his Spirit Hammer throw till he could deliver it point blank, but it's still messed up.
*edit*

Re: I was looking at Patala, and it seems to have
 

>But I WAS upset at Sombre, he knows better, and should keep out of arguments if he has nothing useful to say.

??? Was this what made you upset?

"munkey pd is teh weekest it is always loosing just look in ne game u will c 4 urslef"

I would say that it was somewhat useful. Perhaps not entirely seriously formulated, but a summary of a general opinion, and an answer to Calmon and Ich. It shouldn't upset anyone http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: I was looking at Patala, and it seems to have
 

I was jokingly referring to the same, as was calmon. Seriously, we need something like argumentum ad Hitlerum / Godwin's Law for (monkey) PD on these boards.

Re: I was looking at Patala, and it seems to have
 

Monkey's law : as a dominions 3 discussion about game balance grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Monkey's PD as being the weakest approaches one".

That sounds good. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

PS : I therefore predict that in accordance to the Monkey's law, the discussion that will spawn from the change to tartarian during next update will include a comparison of the new power of Tartarian and monkey PD, and will say something like this : "Tartarian cannot beat anything stronger than monkey's PD !". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: I was looking at Patala, and it seems to have
 

Hmm. What was that glass house remark about? Please stay civil.

Archers do not point blank fire if they are out of ammo. They fight in melee with whatever weapon they have. Often a dagger or a short sword. Sometimes a fist.

Why are you upset with the mod? It is a mod after all. If you find something in the vanilla game that upsets you I would like to knew it so I could consider fixing it. I do lot's of balancing mistakes. Some issues emerges with new abilities, others appear as units are boosted or nerfed too much.

The same goes for most mod makers, but they do not have ten years of dominions experience to back up their balancing. They make something up, let people play and enjoy, collect feedback and improve. If you play a mod, you should be aware that it is not official and only a nice gesture from a creative and friendly modder. There is no need to attack him for making a mod that you do not have to use if you dislike it.

EDIT: Hmm sorry, I might have misunderstood and overstated your point.

Re: I was looking at Patala, and it seems to have
 

I just checked, and crossbowman look like they fire more volleys than that, but that is because some are out of range in the beginning, and some are not, so they fire every round.. but only half or so fire, so you get a count of 20 volleys. But only half or so are firing every volley.

So I officially have no idea how Hoch-boy killed a Tartanian, except that the Tartanian did die with nothing but Hoch Hammer, Penitents, and two trolls. None of the others have anything like the damage capacity to bring him done. It's possible the Hoch Hammer 'saved' his Spirit Hammer throw till he could deliver it point blank, but it's still messed up.

Re: I was looking at Patala, and it seems to have
 

If he saved the spirit hammers and fired them at point blank range they would shred pretty much any undead. They're 10 16 damage (no strength added) projectiles with AP and the holy bonus vs undead. But if you were actually in close combat, it couldn't have fired. I hadn't realised the spirit hammers were still AP. That is actually a leftover from when they did less damage, so that will be changed in the next version. They'll still do a huge amount of damage to any undead/demons though.

If you were in close combat it would have taken a swing with the white hammer which is dmg 9, not holy, with secondary effect of holy fire I believe. The hochhammer commander is basically an anti undead/demon thug. I would suggest that sending either of these against it isn't a great idea.

Forget about complaining regarding anything else because you've given me no reason to listen to you.

Re: I was looking at Patala, and it seems to have
 

Except the point where your going to change something because it is ridicilious and you won't even bother to defend it.

But heh, maybe you could try. You looked like you were getting ready with that 'well it's stupid to send Tartanians against The Hoch'. Because you know, the The Hoch is meant to kill Princes of Death.... oops, kind of gave the exploit away there didn't I?

Re: I was looking at Patala, and it seems to have
 

I'm changing an oversight where I literally forgot to comment out #armourpiercing. I would have found it regardless of your tantrum, because I needed to go through and change the weapon IDs for the next version.

Why would I defend what amounts to a typo? I have no idea where you got such a hard on for me and I don't care.

Edit: What is it about monkey nations that brings out the trolls?

Re: I was looking at Patala, and it seems to have
 

Drake49,

It's not so much that Sombre thinks he's infallible as that he doesn't want to deal with the hostility. I was rather taken-aback myself at your response to his initial "munkey pd is teh weekest it is always loosing just look in ne game u will c 4 urslef" joke. I think someone needs to ease up on the tension here.

-Max

Re: I was looking at Patala, and it seems to have
 

Trollz luv dem monkeez

Re: I was looking at Patala, and it seems to have
 

lol

Re: I was looking at Patala, and it seems to have
 

I think a monkey-troll crossbreed in PD would do much for the nation http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif