What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

I'm toying around with a few configurations and I'm wondering if anyone has suggestions for improving it:

Vine shield
Fire shield
Horned Helmet
Rainbow Armor
Behemoth Boots
Antimagic Amulet
Regeneration Ring or Reinvigoration Amulet

One of the shields can be swapped out for a Frost or Fire Brand as needed. I was thinking of adding Luck or Etherealness, but it doesn't seem as important as MR considering his huge protection.

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

Luck is super important. I'd rather have a lucky coin than a vine shield any day.

Jazzepi

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

Even with 35 protection? Actually I think fear magical attacks more than any kind of physical damage. But maybe a high damage SC killer would change my mind.

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

Yes. Fatigue reduces the effects of protection, and luck helps protect you against critical strikes as well as AP attacks from things like crossbows.

Jazzepi

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

Hmm, maybe swapping out the Rainbow Armor for Robe of Shadows would be worthwhile. Giving up +3 MR and reinvig is a tough choice though.

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

I'd rather have the +3 MR and reinvigoration.

I don't see any reason for you to keep vine shield when you could have lucky coin. They serve the same purpose. Vine shield immobilizes people so that they can't attack the pretender, but the lucky coin provides a much better layer of defense by making 50% of all attacks miss. It also helps against some magic attacks.

Jazzepi

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

Which magic attacks does Luck protect you from? Is it only the mundane spells like Blade Wind or Gifts from Heaven?

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

Shadow Brand
Lucky Coin (?Silver Coin? can't remember what's called, but you know what i'm talkin about)
Starshine Skullcap
Rainbow Armor
Boots of Flying
Antimagic Amulet
Ring of Regeneration

maximize MR, as it is really the weakest link with an E9 'clops

protection is so high don't need etherealness, although luck is good for everyone.

with a shadow brand and such good defensive capability, don't need trampling or quickness. I think the mobility of flying is better choice.

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

Yes, luck protects 50% against everything.

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

Without informations about your nation, I can't see how people can give those definitive opinions.

If you have astral mages the cyclop of course don't need luck or ethearalness on items, just one mage or two to buff him. If you also have water mages, and plan to use just mages + cyclop he don't need quickness too (if you use the thug in an army, quickness items may be usefull, as mage AI isn't reliable to buff SC with a range 15 spell).

Anyway...

Behemoth boot + vine shield offer an excellent synergy (for a trampler vine shield or eye shield is far better than lucky coin IMO). But if he don't have mages to cast quickness nor haste nor flying on him (+ luck to replace the item), I don't think making your cyclop a trampler is the best use of the chassis (and the only way to give him quickness + trampling with items would create encumbrance problems, with the jade armor). So I'd use behemoth boots only if I have the appropriate buffers.

Horned Helmet reduce your defense for a negligible attack, you won't kill a size 6 ennemy SC, nor even an elephant, with it, and smaller ennemies are supposed to be trampled, so in general (if you are not fighting mindless) it's better to use an Horror Helmet boosting the cyclop's fear. Horned Helmet is only good if you also carry a weapon and plan to fight thugs/sc, it's main interest is one more attack to reduce ennemy defense.

Finally , if your goal is to kill a big army of chaff, using the cyclop as a mage and casting iron bane + blade wind x 4 kill far more guys than trampling, with reduced risk. And if your goal is to kill creatures able to survive against this (high hp, magical armors etc...), the cyclop would be better fighting with a weapon.

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

I agree that ethereal will not benefit you. Most things that can bust past your high protection will have magical attacks anyways.

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

I've been experimenting on w/ the Cyclops using a variety of nations, so I am mostly looking for the best configuration for it in the "best case scenario". I can see how things can depend on your nation. Having buff mages, particularly astral ones would be handy to save item slots (though of course it would suck to have your S1 buff Magic Dueled).

Omnirizon: By the way, why prefer the Shadow Brand over Frost or Fire? IIRC, the Shadow Brand deals damage that can be resisted with MR. Maybe the weakness that it causes is better against enemy SCs though.

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

Shadow Brand: Larger area, MR resistable. Doesn't work on lifeless.

Frost/Fire Brand. AoE1. Doesn't work on Cold/Fire immune.

Shadow Brand is really nice against normal chaff.
SC's are likely to have enough MR to ignore it. But they're likely to be Fire/Frost immune too. Especially once you start fielding lots of Fire/FrostBrand wielding thugs.

Against standard Undead chaff (longdead/souless), Firebrand is really the only option. Though against truly huge hordes of chaff, damage shields are the only thing that works.
Even with a Firebrand and quickness, 1 SC can only kill 300 human sized units before hitting the 50 turn limit.

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

Trampling is the way to go against hordes of chaff. Stymphalan wings + boots of quickness + 2 shields [including fire one] do wonders. You need to be careful with that approach though. Flying carpet to retreat if you face something big http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

Flying carpet is redundant if you have Stymphalian wings.

-Max

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

Does a flying carpet help you retreat? If I understand things correctly, when you retreat, either you survive if there's an adjacent friendly province for you to move to, or you die if there isn't. The flying carpet or any other form of flying shouldn't help your chance to survive.

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

If you fly, you dont get caught while running away.

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

Isn't anything that incurs fatigue going to fall to fatigue if it tries alone to trample 300+ foes who don't rout?

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

Not if you have enough reinvigoration.

Jazzepi

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

Flying will help your retreat from the battle field if you are not fatigued, but it will not help you if the provinces surrounding you are enemy provinces. It is a great way to kill a low HP SC that has a put a decent PD in the province. Once you kill the PD, the SC retreats and dies.

That said, the advantage of strategic mobility is huge, so the Winged Shoes are a very attractive choice. It gives you more flexibility, makes it easier to acheive surprise and makes it harder to predict and counter your unit.

On the items question, it does depend a bit at what point of the game you are at. The later in the game, the more important MR is. As such, the Rainbow armor is almost always going to be more useful than Robe of Shadows, but early on, you might get away with it.

I would think reinvigoration is more important than regeneration. Once you tire, the hits will come in. If you go over 100, you are dead. I took out a high protection Cyclops with a death bless. As the fatigue mounted, I got in more hits, which started afflictions. It was a nice cycle for me, but deadly for them. Regeneration would not have helped, more reinvigoration would have.

Think of the ways people are going to try and kill your SC and prepare for them. Think of Vengeance of the Dead. Late in the game, you want to resist it, not fight it, as you will have killed many, many units. Think Soul Slay or Paralyze, think the other SC counters.

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

More reinvig than you spend attacking is, of course, crucial, but having some regen drastically reduces the chances of getting afflictions. Sure it won't save you when you're exhausted fighting death bless sacreds, but what will?

Without it, you're likely to pick afflictions even from the occasional weak hit that gets through.

Especially important for SC pretenders in the early game, when you won't be able to replace them easily and there are less instant kill counters.

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

My experience has been that regeneration of 5% or 10% reduces your affliction rate by maybe half, which means you will still pick up afflictions from the occasional weak hit that gets through. I don't know if that alters the reinvig vs. regen balance, though, because half as many afflictions is still an improvement.

-Max

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

The manual states that ANY regen reduces affliction rate by 80%..... Thus a 400% Death bless would put you at normal affliction rate again. Funny how that works. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Sun Tzu would shake his head disapprovingly at the man who sent his cyclops against Death blessed sacreds.....

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

I believe the manual is erroneous. KO has stated in the past that regen reduces afflictions in proportion to regen %, e.g. a Lamia Queen with a Ring of Regen and Monolith armor will be less afflicted than someone with just an N4 bless. My experience is that he is correct. A regenerating Pretender who is killed by D9 weapons frequently has 3 or 4 afflictions by the time he dies.

-Max

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

Hmmmm. I'll confer with my roommate on affliction rates. I'm currently playing Fomoria with a N4 bless, and it's quite rare for them to gain afflictions, and they take a LOT of hits. He's fiddling with Jotunheim with a N10, and all of his commanders get Ring of Regen asap, I'll have to see how that's working for him in comparison.

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

I've actually played a game where I was using sacred hydras with a nature bless. They had better than 100% regen and still occasionally picked up afflictions.. and that wasn't against death blessed creatures. It was pretty rare, but did happen, even without the hydras being on their last head.

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

Hmm, since affliction chance is based on the percentage of HP, wouldn't it be a lot easier to cause afflictions on hydras when attacking their minor heads due to the low HP? Unless affliction percentage is based on the unit's total HP, rather than the HP of one head.

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

How did you get above 100% regen with a bless? I'm AFG. Do Hydras have 80% regeneration pre-bless? 70%? An E10 bless is 20%, and IIRC Mass Regeneration is 10%, so I don't see non-commander units getting boosted more than 30%. Am I wrong, or does the Hydra just have super-high regen?

-Max

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

I play blessed prophets with an n8 bless.. and pick up afflictions all the time. Usually disease.

NOTHING worse than when a prophet dies of disease. Ok. your god dying of disease.

Pretenders REALLY ought to be immune, btw.
It would be COOL if you could have the call god option all the time.... And if it could remove afflictions.. you know.. 8 call god points get rids of lose an eye..
12 gets rid of disease etc.

Also cool.. if calling god.. boosted hp...

the faith of your peope....

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

I think the loose heads have 100% regen 6 out of 6 hp.. so usually means nothing anyway. the main head in the end has only 30% I think or lower

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

Yeah, like Tinkerbell. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

While still having more than one head the hydra has 100% regen.. with a nature bless they are above 100% (I've had them say that they are regenerating 7 hp per turn when they only have 6 hp).

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

yes.. so it doesn't matter http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif it would probably get diseases since it gets like 300% damage from time to time (18 damage) and I think that would not help when affliction or not is decided http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif whatever the regen.

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

That's really strange. Regenerating units aren't supposed to lose hit points to disease. Sure, they'll pick up more afflictions and their teeth will rot and their arms and eyes fall out and they'll go senile, but they won't (or at least shouldn't) die.

-Max

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

Oh they'll die if you get scared of placing them in combat, because of their illness. But that's silly, since you only regen IN combat, you want the diseased prophet fighting constantly, he'll either live or he'll be out of his misery, and you can appoint a new one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

Even outside of combat, they don't lose hit points. Some people take an N4 bless so that if a researcher gets a disease they can slap a cheap Shroud of the Battle Saint on him to keep him alive.

-Max

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

I'm pretty sure you still lose one hitpoint a year during one of the winter cycles.

Jazzepi

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

Interesting. Undoubtedly a bug, just like immortals dying during winter.

-Max

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

It seems to me that it all depends on the nation and how fast you can get him equiped. A cyclops decked out with level 6 const gear is great. but by the time you get it into action it may be too late. Or at the very least of dubious value.
If you can shoot for a sleeping Cyclops that wakes up at the end of 12 turns with level 4 constuction a a full set of gear waiting for it, then you have an SC to be feared.

EA Arcos would be able to make all of the following by the end of the first year:

FrostBrand (5 water gems)
Boots of the messenger (10 nature gems)
Rainbow armor (not 100% sure if this is const 4?) 5A/5N
amulet of anti magic (5S gems)
ring of regen (10 N gems)
Lucky coin (10S gems)
and either a horned helmet or black steel helmet gem depend.

This is not the best set up you can do. It is cost effective,fast and generic. You can tailor it to your opponent.

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

Hmm, that is a nice setup. With the reinvig from the boots and the rainbow armor, you can get away with researching Summon Earthpower until later.

Also, the Boots of the messenger are only 5 gems in the vanilla game. Not sure about CBM but I think it's the same. The Rainbow Armor is only Con 4, probably making it the best armor at that level, unless maybe you really need the +5 MR from the Armor of Souls.

By the way, if you can have an awake Cyclops who can make a few Dwarven Hammers for you in addition to expanding, you can get the equipment even cheaper.

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

I think his theory was simply that you can time the research and gem income to coincide with a sleeping pretender, and thus sacrifice little to gain those 150 points. Plus, it's highly unlikely you could afford "a few" dwarven hammers, and the introductory SC gearset, by turn 12. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

Is it worth letting the Cyclops sleep those first 12 turns? Even with the trinkets forgable at the start, he should be able to capture a good number of indy provinces right away. You will need some of those to start bringing in the gem and gold income you will need.

My understanding of pretender SC theory is that you want to get the early expansion advantage. If you have a clear advantage to have him sleep, so be it, but I do not see it indicated in this proposal.

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

If he is the type of pretender that would need some gear before he could be risked in combat (a low protection type), then it would make sense to let him sleep. But since he is a Cyclops, there would probably be more of an advantage for having him awake and capturing provinces unless the points were needed for some specific strategy.

Re: What is the best equipment for an E9 Cyclops?
 

Sure,with worse scales you can have an awake Cyclops. your capitol only mages get a chance for E3 so you can have dwarven hammers made. And if the cyclops gets an affliction you can heal it with a priestess.