Nation without recruitables
 

Would it be too hard to mod a nation without any recruitable unit? It would depend entirely in independents, magic sites and special sites captured from the other nations... I would want to play this kind of nation as a challenge against the AI...

Re: Nation without recruitables
 

Try the all age mod and play one of the vacant nation slots. They have few if any recruitables. There was one with just recruitable cavemen.

I tried it once but it wasn't much fun. An excercise in frustration really.

Re: Nation without recruitables
 

Well, there's LA Ermor...

Wouldn't you need something to start with though?
Starting army and pretender I guess. Or just pretender.

You could always just not build any of the national units

Re: Nation without recruitables
 

I think ti would be very easy. If you read the modding PDF it should be clear

create a new nation (see manual)
clear the nation (see manual)

and then I think you'd alread have a nation without recruitables http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

then you could add some starting troops or just do it with a pretender.

I think it's a waste of your time trying to play it though, you won't get far without recruitable mages, certainly not if you don't have blessed troops http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Here, try this

I used one of my mods and removed everything that made it a nation. I'm not gonna even try it myself if it doesn't work you'll have to adjust it yourself

Re: Nation without recruitables
 

Well it's certainly a challenge. Wouldn't try it in MP.

But against the AI? Maybe.

Strong, awake SC pretender, not reliant on buffs or items, can start taking indies with ease. Might as well start without gem income too, just to add fun.

Site search as you go, it'll slow down expansion, but finding that first indy mage site is crucial. Or better yet, just hope for nearby tribal mages or lizards. Start building indy troops everywhere you conquer and a fort on decent indies as soon as possible. It's all about the pretender design, though. You really want as close as you can get to an awake rainbow SC.

Re: Nation without recruitables
 

You would need to have one starting priest to get the possibly recruitable shamans.

Re: Nation without recruitables
 

I made the dm file.. no start sites, no recruits...

not hoping for lizards I'd say since they'll curse your only troop (pretender).

I still think it's a waste of time though, you won't even survive against AI... once you have some provinces a huge army with mages who might have actually some spells researched (as opposed to whatever you have)

I think going rainbow is useless too, better high dom and a few magics you can use early on.. an immortal pretender might be the best option for your chassis though.

Re: Nation without recruitables
 

You can get a starting priest by prophetizing some random indy.

-Max

P.S. I wouldn't try this in SP, not so much because I think it would be difficult (although it would be) as because I think it would be bland. But then, I identify more with the nation than the pretender anyway, and almost never use pretender SCs. YMMV.

Re: Nation without recruitables
 

I'd like to add that if you like a challange you could try my gangwars mod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Nation without recruitables
 

But which immortals are tough enough to solo provinces without only level 0 magic? I don't think having the pretender research 2-3 levels of magic on his own before attacking is a good plan.
A tough SC, with enough magic to bootstrap a couple of paths, find some sites for income, and forge a few boosters for the common indy mages. 2D2E2S2N maybe. Not sure what chassis. Dom9 or 10 though.

And mercs, mercs'll save you.

Re: Nation without recruitables
 

Ghost King is probably the best chassis for soloing indies along with rainbowing out a bit...he needs an air pick or two for air shield to do alright naked, but he can solo average morale melee units fairly well even without buffs and gear.

Re: Nation without recruitables
 

For another interesting challenge along similar lines, try Ashen Empire with an imprisoned pretender.

There you get the freespawn troops, but without mages or priests.

Re: Nation without recruitables
 

for 2D2E2S2N you'd need a rainbow chassis or bad scales, then you'd have to start a few turns researching alteration. But an immortal pretender could maybe have that and then just attack and if he died.. who cares http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

You could mod in some appropriate starting troops though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

VQ pretender with a few immortal vampires... but that would probably make it a bit too easy again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Nation without recruitables
 

Prince of Death can do 4D2E2S2N Dom9 with 2 negative scales.
And attack without research if you pick your targets.

Lizards killed him though. You're right about the curse.

Wiped them a couple of turns later with indy archers, though. When you're not buying mages or expensive national troops, you can buy alot of indies fast.

Re: Nation without recruitables
 

yeah lol who will die fast against mages and expensive national troop from AI opponents http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

did you try this with my "mod"?

I still think immortality is the key here

which immortal chassis are there..

I think opening up some extra pretender chassis and giving them a bonus heat/cold scale for extra points would not be unbalancing all things considered http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

I know VQ, phoenix

Re: Nation without recruitables
 

I didn't bother with the mod, just didn't recruit any nationals. Only played a few turns to see how indies went.
If I'd been a bit more cautious, I would have been recruiting lizard shamen from turn 6 or so and taking 2 provinces a turn. (Less if I stopped to search with the pretender)
But, yes the AI armies would be challenging. And the micromanagement of recruiting a couple troops from every province every turn was already annoying.

VQ maybe, but phoenix is useless without research. So are the lichs. I think that's it for the non-nation specific immortals.
I'm not sure what to do with the VQ. 23 hp 0 prot, no fear. Life drain is nice, but a couple of hits would finish her. You'd have to add paths to get any useful buffs, then research 6-7 turns before attacking.

Re: Nation without recruitables
 

but we could mod other immortals in .. but which ones http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Nation without recruitables
 

I could see doing a Nation without any recruitables *or* summons. And in such a way that you could only select one Pretender. The whole entire Nation rests on the ability of that one nation-specific Pretender, so you can't screw with the balance by picking a rainbow-mage, instead of what the designer had in mind http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

You create a Pretender-I'd do immobile, but teleportable-who spawns off a particularly nasty SC-ready sacred unit, who then *also* spawns off a different, but still thuggable nasty sacred unit, who then spawns off a good commander, who spawns a heavy infantry trooper, who spawns an artillery unit, who spawns off...you get the idea. Some of the "spawn" could shapechange into other units, for the sake of versatility, but you'd really have to be careful to pace yourself with the Nation-especially with making sure you had enough units balancing out your army.

The strengths of the Nation would be getting your toughest units at the beginning, instead of the end game, and your exponential growth. The main weakness, besides the necessity of pacing and timing, is that, if you lose your Pretender, it's all over-and losing one of the SCs should be a major blow, atleast until the end-game.

An interesting twist would be if the Pretender, itself, could shapechange into a couple of different forms, allowing you to pick which "SC type" got made when, leading to vastly different forces, at different times in the game. If each change was permanent, you can imagine the strategic possibilities, and headaches.

There'd be no Nation-specific summonables, no recruitables, and no starting gem income. You could hire independents, but I'd make your "spawn" troops cost so much gold that you'd never have a decent income, other than Luck. You could still use generic summons, ofcourse, but without a starting gem income, it would be harder. The "spawn" themselves, with these limitations in place, could then be quite meaty, without as much fear of unbalancing the nation as a whole. And each loss-except for the very bottom rungs ofcourse, which itself might be filled with various versatile troops you might not want to casually throw away-would be an unrecoverable setback to your overall endgame position.

Re: Nation without recruitables
 

I think something like that has been done honeybadger, but I don't think that was what the OP had in mind. He wanted to play with just independent units against AI nations.

(I think it was some mod with insects I read about that had something like you said, never played it myself)

I do think that once the nation is on a roll it goes exponentially so I doubt it's as weak as you think.. might even be VERY overpowered.

I mean in 3 turns 3 SC and 2 thugs.. that is quick expansion right there...

Re: Nation without recruitables
 

Of course, if you really just want to play with independents against the AI, mod a nation to have regular shortbows, militia, heavy and light infantry and maybe heavy cavalry.
Standard Commander, scout and priest.

You've got starting recruitables, so your castle is useful, but they don't give you anything you wont get from your average indy.

Re: Nation without recruitables
 

Hmmm. Reminds me of Witchlight Marauders from Spelljammer.

Primary: Giant poisonous slugs that spew flames.
Secondary: I forget. Some kind of robotic tyrannosaurs?
Tertiary: Headless clay-men with swords for hands.

Primaries were themselves spawned by giant crocodile-headed spaceships. That would be your pretender.

-Max

Re: Nation without recruitables
 

Wow, somebody else actually remembers Spelljammer?!?

Witchlight Marauders were an inspiration, yes, as was Amos's Insectoids. Infact I give full credit for being a genius to Amos, for coming up with the perfectly brilliant idea of mobile creatures who transform into immobile breeders. Very good, MaxWilson! I had both of those in mind, along with the movie Akira, a mod nation that Nerfix came up with (can't recall the name right now, and I'm too lazy/sleepy to look it up), Ego, the Living Planet, a 50s b movie I also can't think of the name of, and the Lesser Key of Solomon-a 17th century book on demonology.



I think the second stage of Witchlights were the 20 foot tall pincer-hand giants...


I've got way too much stuff in my brain.

Re: Nation without recruitables
 

I thought about making this.

After reading Chuck Noris facts.

A pretender that is virtually unstoppable and that is all ... maybe a fanboy - priest 1 - to build temples, but if you have to find an indep. Comander to make your prophet to build a temple in a province where you can recruit priests would be manageable, too.

Re: Nation without recruitables
 

true no real way to get priests with just a pretender --> correction you there is a prohet option.. you need one magic path you your pretender though to get the mages.

Re: Nation without recruitables
 

I think the best way do to this would be to combine Aezeal's mod with a map mod giving a very powerful cheated pretender. Seraph, fully equipped, comes to mind. Maybe there is a better immortal, open to suggestion here. Not limited to existing pretender chassis for this effort. Maybe a lot of magic on it, but I'm unsure of that. Bless could only be used on Amazon troops and the rare Fir Blog. And of course, great scales.

I make you a map mod if you are interested. Choose a map from the "come-with-game" maps.

I will also need the nation number Aezeal used in his dm. file.

I do agree with everyone else, it sounds to me like it wouldn't be much fun.

Re: Nation without recruitables
 

for a challange try this with an imprisoned pretender http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Nation without recruitables
 

Not entirely true. Aside from the possibility of hiring mercs to build your first lab, you could either 1.) find an indy mage with only randoms (doesn't require a lab--hoburg priest is an example), or 2.) take the lab from someone else. Either could be thematic, although it's obviously easier to have magic on your pretender.

-Max

Re: Nation without recruitables
 

You have got a cruel streak.

Re: Nation without recruitables
 

Just got back from travel and catched up the thread...

Aezeal> tried your file and when i try to select a nation to play it came back with an error message: "myloadmalloc: ./mods/./Nomads and genies/EA_djiniibad_icon.tga" (im doing something wrong?)

I like the idea of some "generic" indys in the starting province... it would give a better feel for what i´m trying to do....

On an side note: would be too hard to do this in dominions 2? I ask because i only play dom3 in my main machine, as my notebook only can handle dom2...

I´ll reread the pdfs and see what i can do...

Re: Nation without recruitables
 

ow lol the icon file is still there.. delete that line I'd say http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif