Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

I have no idea how to do a poll, so I will just post this as a normal post.

Do you turn your first free scout into into a Prophet? Or do you just use him as a scout? I usually turn mine into a prophet myself.

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

I prefer to make the actual commander of my army the prophet. That way I have a scout to look for suitable targets, and a prophet to take part in the battles.

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

Same, with an exception for if I've got easy access to an H3 commander.

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

I usually just have my very first commander become a prophet, while my scout goes off scouting and I build some more troops.

I feel this is most useful for the start, helping my early expansions.

Still, I'm a newbie at this and I have not currently got a good idea of when to kill my prophet to make place for a superior candidate, which does seem important as that first commander does not really make the best possible use of all the bonuses being a prophet gives.

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

Depends on the nation. One thing is for sure; you shouldn't wait too long to make a prophet.

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

Definitely not me.

I prefer either my first commander, or more likely if it is possible, one of my low-level mages, so I can boost him with Crystal Shield in mid-game (with a lot of reinvigoration items http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif);not one of my best high-level mages, because you must choose either smiting or casting usefull spells.

P.S. : I only play SP games, for fun, and nothing else. So, don't see anything über-strategic-advice in all of it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

QXel

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

If I want to patrol my capital the first turn, I use the scout. If I have H3 priests, I make one of them my prophet. Otherwise the starting commander.

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

I make my scout prophet only if I want to use the first commander as patroler when I tax 140 my cap the first turn(s).

But I only do that with some nations needing a lot of gold early, ie elephants/giants nations, and if I don't have high growth (overtaxing with death is just getting gold and killing pop faster, overtaxing with growth is reducing a long term exponential bonus).

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

Starting commander 95% of the time. Never the scout. I do not use anyone without leadership.

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

I usually patrol with commander and scout=profet. And use profet for first battles but have him ready to go for a dom kill or whatever is needed (reanimating or similar). Unless as always there is a H3 priest available.

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

I find that Sermon of Courage + Smite is valuable enough that I usually prophetize my starting commander instead of patrolling on the first turn. I usually don't prophetize the scout unless it's vital that I get more gold on the first turn (thus, patrolling + prophet is required), which is for gold-hungry nations like Niefelheim. Even so I am usually dissatisfied with the scout prophet--it just doesn't seem thematic in many cases.

-Max

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

Agreed. I'm guilty of waiting too long at times myself, but certain nations I really like to make a big expensive commander as my prophet. This is both for survivability and of course the cost issue. Mind Lords are a prime example for me. They are not normally sacred and at 420 a pop that's 28 gold to maintain one of these big fishies! It takes a couple of turns to get one of these guys out though.

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

The prophet always goes to a commander or expensive powerful mage... never the scout. I usually select the starting commander about 70% of the time. One benefit of a prophet is the upkeep is removed.

Also I'm usually able to get my prophet into the hall of fame even for MP games, thus if he survives awhile and then dies I can use ritual of rebirth. The ritual of rebirth is more worthwhile on a someone who returns with magic paths plus H3.

I guess for scout types with high stealth the prophet trait can be useful long term.

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

It depends.

If my nation has a level 3 priest, I will recruit one and prophetize him, so that I
end up with a level 4 holy caster.

If I can recruit really powerful commanders, like for example Niefelheim's Jarls,
or Tir-Na-Nog's Sidhe lords, I will prophetize those, and use them as thugs.

If my starting leader commander has low encumberance, I will prophetize him,
rather than the scout, for the better stats and multiple uses.

If none of the above is true, the scout is my choice.

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

There really isn't any point of prophetizing Sidhe lords, apart from arrow fend and mistform, bless should be the first spell any sidhe lords cast http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Anyways, Generally I do like prophetizing my scouts on the first turn unless I'm playing a nation with lvl3 priests. The other commander is normally set to patrol province while I set tax to 140%, of course this is not always the case. I don't see why should one prophetize a normal commander, the scout prophet can still join battle if you choose to, they are more flexible as they can hide, and will probably accumulate some afflications by the end of the expansion phase, just send him to a suicide mission once you have a better candidate. This strategy has worked out very well for me so far.

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

It's a trade off.
A commander prophet is more resistant to stray arrows and the like. I also can't count the number of times I've had scout prophets sneak along with the army and thus miss the battle, so the flexibility can bite you.

Mostly I like to have the scout early on, so I can find out who's off in one direction at least. Sometimes you'll get lucky and find indy scouts early. In my last MP game it was almost a year before I had any. EA is especially bad.

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

Reasons to choose the starting commander:

Many starting commanders have an upkeep of 5 or higher... this may not seem like much yet after 20_turns that's 100_gold. The scout has an upkeep of barely above 1.

Most starting commanders have better stats and equipment than the starting scout. One lucky arrow can strike the scout unless the scout is stashed way in the back. The starting commanders(some mounted) have shields allowing more flexibiltiy with where they can stand in battle and how they participate in battle.

Scouts have stealth yet they also have some negative traits such as zero leadership and poor equipment. The Markata scout has very good stealth where it would be worth considering for a dominion kill on a neighbor, the typical 10 stealth doesn't justify worthiness of being a prophet in my view.

Ideally you don't want your prophet dead for any amount of turns because his very existence promotes your dominion.

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

Does prophetizing a unit remove its upkeep?

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

yes

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

Although it can be really annoying when a self-blesser misses himself in his blessing. Argh! Prophetizing would remove that possibility.

One reason I usually don't prophetize the scout is that he's usually the only scout I have for much of the first year, until I find indy scouts. My capital is busy building other stuff.

-Max

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

I almost always patrol on the first turn so I almost always need my starting commander for that. As a result the scout is usually made into my prophet. I dont find that it detracts in any significant way from using him (never had one killed by a stray arrow/spell).

And the first-turn patrol gives you a significant edge over other nations at a time when it counts most. You may not think much of it, but if I get to a chokepoint province 1 turn before you cause I had just enough gold to get my starting force going sooner, you will be kicking yourself.

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

Yes, these are exactly the reasons that I prophetize the scout. I am usually high taxing/patrolling on the first turn, and I want to get a prophet made quickly. He can then travel along with the army, smiting and whatnot, and as long as you are careful, you can set him to move and not sneak. When he finally gets killed (and in my experience, this will be a long time in the future), you can make a better unit into your Prophet.

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

What about an assassin, such as Abysia starts with? I have actually not used Ritual of Rebirth ever, so I wonder what the stats are for the mummy, and if it would be worth using on a high quality assassin?

Also, I had been thinking the scout might make an excellent prophet for Arco, since he can cause early Dom spread to give you long lasting intel via scrying.

Though anymore, I almost exclusively do the initial commander. I don't like patrolling my capital, I'd rather have someone Smite spamming from turn 2 on, than kill my loyal subjects for a few troops that I don't have the resources to produce anyway. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

I usually go for the commander so my scout can go do something useful instead of strapping himself to the commander's side and following him around. I generally don't do a first turn patrol though. That's purely personal preference.

What is NOT personal preference is that making an H3 priest into a prophet is a trap. Word of power pretty much sucks compared to smite, and it's going to take a while before you have enough troops so that you'll need fanaticism over a few Sermons. Thus, having 2 H3 priests (one of them a junk unit you made your prophet and the other one the H3 chassis you would have used) is going to be more useful than one H4 priest in the vast majority of situations, especially early-game. Add on the opportunity cost of having to wait to actually recruit your H3 priest chassis and you have a clear loser of a strategy.

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

I've had assassin prophets, but bear in mind that I play SP, and not only do I play SP, but I play it to amuse myself, not to win as efficiently as possible. I've occasionally made prophets out of Skeptics, Hydras et al simply because I thought it was funny.

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

In this case the important stat is that a mummy is not an assassin, or even stealthy.

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

Of course, I usually just take a province the first turn = )

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

Entirely situational.

Do I start with a flying pretender? A scout can help me find a low defense site that I can pick off.

Do I need to spread dominion. Did I start next to a imprisoned low dominion opponent?

Am I yomi, with two starting scouts - or one of the two races whos scouts command troops?

Do I need the extra leadership that prophetizing can result in?

Do I want to deprive others of a slot in the Hall of Fame?
Many times, if you send your scout into the combat they will both HOF.

Am I playing a bless strategy? More importantly, will my pretender build allow me to purchase a sacred leader as well as a full build out of sacreds.. aka .. will I need a prophet for the divine blessing.

I guess my answer is this. The first few turns are: grab as much land as possible. Stake as much land as you can. If a prophet helps you more than intel... you prophetize.

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

Unless I have something specific in mind with a particular nation, I'll likely prophetize the most expensive commander, just to save on upkeep.

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

So..... I feel as if I'm missing something. Does this mummy lose all abilities of its former self? What is the purpose of ever using the spell? .....

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

He keeps the magic paths and heroic abilities, and afflictions. I think that's it but he might also keep modifiers such as bonuses from having wished for power. Since he keeps magic paths, you can re-prophetize a resurrected prophet and he gains another +1 Holy Levels, which is the only way you can get an H9 priest in the game outside of communions.

-Max

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

Ouch, seems like the afflictions would usually be the deal breaker there..... Now I want to look for an opportunity to actually use the spell, I'm intrigued. And a bit annoyed that your assassin can't do his job once he's visited the land of the dead, he should be even stealthier now, he doesn't have to breathe! Though, he might weeze a bit, if the movies are accurate.....

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

Also, larger creatures become giant mummies, with 68 hitpoints. Nothing to scoff at.

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

Special abilities are tied to unit type. Because there aren't mummies for all sizes and all possible combinations of special powers, the reborn mummy loses its special powers.

As was said, you can get a mage back that way, or transform a large creature into a big mummy.

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

> There really isn't any point of prophetizing Sidhe lords, apart from arrow fend
> and mistform, bless should be the first spell any sidhe lords cast

I disagree. The +2 attack/defense bonus from being a prophet is not negligible.
And the extra hit points can be handy as well.

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

Although if you're playing aggressively the "extra" hit points are probably negative. I'm quite reluctant to prophetize thugs because it often means they'll be operating at 50% HP or less.

-Max

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

Completely agree. I tried prophetizing the first commander with Gath to get a free thug but he was just bad attacking into enemy territory.

Jazzepi

Re: Who likes a scout as first prophet?
 

A good strategy when playing Tir is Water + Earth blessing (not 9), and yes for Sidhe lord defense is very important, with Construction lvl4 it's easy to boost his defense over 30-32 after bless. High defense + Mistform + Arrow fend is all the protection he needs, a self-bless is more than enough, MR boost is pointless as if he's facing mage-supported armies he's as good as dead.

In fact You will most probably cloud trapeze him on enemy provinces which means he will actually lose HP due to fighting in enemy dominion. It is in fact a real bad idea prophetizing sidhe lords.

If you are playing Tir na n'Og, you better off prophetizing the national hero Longarm, who is a lvl3 priest and you will be using him as an excellent support unit, not a thug.