Andean Zorro - MA/diff_research/VPs - game started
 

Game: Andean Zorro
Admin: Omnirizon
Server: llamaserver
Map: Cradle
Era: Middle Age
Players: 10

Indies: 7
Special Sites: 50
Money/Resource/Supply: 100
Randoms: common
Scores: on
HoF: 10
Research: difficult
Victory: VP (half of capitals)
Cheats: no using the cheap battlefield spell combos (can't recall them off the top of my head, but I will spell them out if necessary; most people should know what they are and know better any way.)

Mods: Worthy Heroes (no CBM)


Players:

Omni - Shinuyama
Calahan - Pangaea
BigDisAwesome - Ashdod
Niarg - R'Lyeh
Dragar - Abysia
Kheldon - Caeleum
Cerlin - Eriu
Janim - Marignon
DonCorazon - Pythium
Anticipatient - Ermor


Welcome to the debut game for the Zorro series!

Zorros are 'false foxes' native only to S. America. They
come from the genus Lycalopex (also known as Pseudalopex),
as opposed to the genus Vulpes who are considered the
'true' foxes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudalopex

The concept for this series will be to make magic a more
defining characteristic for players throughout the game.
Thus, players cannot depend on just researching everything
by almost turn 60. Rather, players will have to pick and
choose magic, either specializing in one or two schools,
and dabbling in others, or being a jack-of-all-paths and
getting midway into most of them.

To accomplish this concept, VP victory will be used (as
that somewhat limits how long a game can last) with
difficult research (to slow down research, obviously). The
idea is to come up with a either a cumulative or percentage
of VP balance that makes games last only long enough for
players to be able to access and use the upper levels (8+)
of only one or two magic paths, or mid-levels (4-5) of most
of them.

This will make magic a more defining characteristic.
Players will have to think more about what paths they want
to use, because ideally they will only be able to really
get into one or two of them and be able to use them before
the game ends. Conj+Const for SCs? Evo+Alt for
Battlefield? Ench+Thau for Rituals? or maybe some other
combination.

This game will be Andean Zorro, also known as the Culpeo.
It is most commonly found on the western slopes of the
Andes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culpeo

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Zorro! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif Sorry, I couldn't resist. >.> I'm in too many games to pick up another one just yet, but I wanted to pop in and say "cool stuff!". And to suggest maybe your concept might work well with sites bumped to 50 or something. Just a thought!

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

thanks for the suggestion. with players held to the less efficient lower level magic a bit more, higher sites might make great sense.

if there's support for such a change, we can of course do it.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory - open
 

Count me in. I'll take Pangaea please.

Indies - 7 (Yes Yes!)
Map - Cradle (any map is fine by me)
Score Graphs - On (think graphs off and cumulative VP's might allow a nation to win without other nations even knowing about it)
Cumulative VP Formula - Your suggested formula seems ok, although I would add that with that many VP points available, that the required VP should be set to maximum (can't remember if that's 50 or 60?)

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

I think I'll join this one. I'd love to try out the new nation Ashdod. Looks like I have some research to do on them now.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Oh and I'm up for just about any game setting. Although I think VP's should exist in capitols. Makes it less of a rush to the VP's.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

I agree with the VPs in capitals, although it does mean that everyone knows the starting positions.

I'll take R'Lyeh
Map: depends on number of players.
Indies: 5-7
Graphs: Off
Victory when one player controls half the capitals.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

when are you going to start?

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

we will start whenever we have at least eight players and people think we have enough players.

also, is there any support for using CBM? I'd like to, but we can put it to vote.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

I'd rather not. It's not that I have something against it, but I don't want to have to relearn stats or spells.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

I'd like to be in as Machaka

I'd much rather have CBM as it allows for interesting things with low-level magic in comparison with vanilla. Besides it screws most of the spoiler combos and allows for a better balanced game

IMO Graphs on because as was said a player could win without anyone knowing if it were off

indy 7 fine by me

HoF 10 if there are only 8 players, 15 if 10 or more

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

I'd love to play as C'tis, if you don't mind a noob mucking around. =)

Nation: C'tis
Map: Any's fine with me
Indies: 7
Graphs: Off
Victory: when one player controls half the capitals.
CBM: No

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory - open
 

I'd be happy playing with score graphs off, but only if the VP conditions are that a player needs to control over 50% of capitals (not cumulative) as mentioned by others. As I don't think it's possible then for a nation to become big enough to win without everyone else knowing about it. Although downside then is the obvious one of all starting locations being marked, which will help the early rushers. Anyone know of a way to avoid capitals being marked, yet still have control >50% of capitals as the winning condition? or is that being too hopeful?

I'd also vote no for CBM. I prefer to play my Dominions as God / illwinter intended.

And HoF 10 if less than ten nations, and HoF 15 if over ten nations makes sense to me.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory - open
 

I'd prefer not to use CBM.

As for the VPs we could always report in this thread whenever someone takes a capital and keep track of it manually.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Yeah, we could just not use VP's in the map. But let it be known that when you control X amount of capitols for X amount of turns, you win.

Or we could always just say if someone controls X% of total provinces, they win. Puts less of an emphasis on capitols and more so on steady even growth.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

I'm keen to play as Abysia if you'll have me, not fussed on the preferences

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

I think I'm finally going to take Caelum instead of Machaka.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

The point with using VPs is to purposefully somewhat limit the length of the game. A simple percentage of provinces can drag on for over 90 turns, and it is not fun to manage 40% of 300+ provinces. VPs, and especially cumulative VPs, can be used to set a timer on the game, and make it a little less "thick"; preventing the drag of having to ever manage massive empires.

Ideally, the goal should be a game between 60-90 turns. Preferably closer to 60. With around 8 players, the origial VP formula I posted basically _can't_ last longer than 90 turns (even if everybody sat around, they'd accumulate enough VPs by then). I figure with people wrangling over the VP provinces and capitals, that formula should place the game at 60-90 turns.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

we still have a couple of spots open, sign up now.

looks like votes are leaning towards:

CBM off
graphs off
VP's 50% of capitols

it could still go either way with remaining votes. please pick a nation and vote on CBM, graphs, and whether you prefer percentage or cumulative VPs.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

i vote no to CBM, yes to graphs

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

I would like to play. I would be Eriu. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif The Irish ninja's

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

I would vote yes for VP on half the captials.

And Cradle is fine if we have under 10 people.

Scales are good off and I dont like CBM but maybe worthy heroes?

Indies I would prefer 5-6

And definitely NON cumulative VP

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

c'mon!

one more person and we can start!
(unless ppl want to hold out for more than eight; i'd rather get started though).

I've decided to go with Shinuyama. they look like something fun to play, and I kinda like their theme; makes me think of Ninja Scroll (its the ONLY anime I like; swear).

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

I'd like to play Arco, please.

Nation: Arcosephale
Map: I like the Dawn of Dominions map
Indies: 7
Graphs: On
Victory: Victory Points as expressed in first post
CBM: No!

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

is there room for more?

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Janim,

there is room for a couple more. pick a nation and post on any preferences for settings; specifically map, graphs, CBM, and victory (cumulative or percentage VPs).

I'll give it till the end of the day to see if anybody else joins up. we'll take at most one more, then close; and if nobody else shows up by tonight, we'll roll with this nine.

start getting pretenders ready, this train is going to be moving soon.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Here's how votes are looking:

Map is Cradle

Graphs are still a toss up (with four yay and nay). BigDisAwesome and Janim haven't voted on this yet though.

CBM is overwhelmingly no

Victory is looking like half of capitals (with four caps, three cumulative). Kheldron, Dragar, and Janim have not cast votes on this.

among those voting, there's a little more support for Indies 7 than lower numbers.

a couple of ppl have expressed HoF = 10 for < 10 players. Unless anybody objects, I will go with this.

also, please note sites are set at 50; quite a bit higher than default for MA. I'm guessing this is fine with everybody, as no one has said a word about it, but I wanted to bring it to everyone's attention.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

i'll pick marignon

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Omni, I love the VP and tougher research idea so would like to join if there is still space. If so, I'd like to try Pythium. My vote would be for CBM (though sounds like I'll lose that one). No strong opinion as to the other options.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

I vote for half capitals and indies 7, looking forward to this game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

alright DC. your on board and this game is now closed. I'll send llama an email and let him know we're ready. start making pretenders.

unless Janim AND DonC vote otherwise, it looks like VPs are in capitols only, and 50% of them to win. I've never played with VPs before (only read they do limit game length a bit), so we'll see how this works out.

we still need a tie breaker on graphs. if DC or Janim don't pick one way or the other; then they may just get left off.

CBM is off, Indies are 7, HoF is 10, sites 50, and map is Cradle.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Since it is a VP game, I guess I'd prefer Graphs On to make it a bit more challenging.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

if its not too late, id like to take Machaka...

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

sorry Kojusoki,

We've reached the limit for the map we're using, and I've already sent llamabeast our game settings and number of players.

If one of our signed up players ends up being a no show, I will PM you.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Just FYI, after playing many VP games, I can tell you that 50% of VPs is too high - Especially on a big map. It seems like you are trying to shoot for research and victory settings which will prevent researching all paths. But your game will drag on forever with a VP setting that high.

I know it sounds low, but 30-40% of cap VPs is usually about as much as any player can manage in a reasonable amount of time.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

I agree with Ironhawk. I had forgotten the VP ratios I have used in the past but now that I recall, 30% is about right. It worked well in Epotara, http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...art=1&vc=1, which ended around turn 60 or so and was a nice-paced game.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

thanks ironhawk,

I was thinking around 40% would be more reasonable for my goals, but having never played VPs, was just going to roll with 50% since it was suggested. This game is kind of an experimental one to gauge the balance of the settings anyway.

Is 40% a good compromise? Or are people hard on 50%?

Since we are using capitals as VPs, and tracking them manually in the forum, it isn't an issue to switch this up at anytime. If someone reaches 40%, and people want to push on, we can up it to 50%, or even just call the "official victor" then, but go ahead and continue the game to standard victory; just for fun.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Either way works for me. I was just supplying ideas with my posts before.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

40% is good. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif especially with hard research.
I agree with DC too that it is really important to have graphs with VP's so you can try to prevent the win.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

I'm looking forward to getting this one rolling.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

The game is set up, by the way, so you can send in your pretenders when you're ready.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

I'll have mine in later tonight - West coast time.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

is game full?
if not id like to join
it looks like all the nations i know a bit are taken so how about vanheim?
ive never played MA before, only EA and LA....so it'll be fun, but i am pretty new http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

let me know if i can join as vanheim or another nation i dont actually mind so much who i play. sounds like a fun game setup. i have no changes to proposed setup.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

sorry effeDom,

already full up.

-Omni

i'll be getting my pretender in later toninght too (perhaps very late though).

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Will try to get my Pretender in tonight. If I don't manage that, then it'll probably be Saturday morning (UK time) before I get it done :-( as I'm away all day Friday.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

I won't be able to get my pretender in until tomorrow after work. Sorry guys.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

I will have my pretender in tonight, but thats Japan time. Which means a little later than all of you.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Ok I uploaded now so it can start and not be slowed down by me living in tomorrow.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Alright got my pretender in.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

hurrah!

I know one person said they are away today, and won't be able to get theirs in until Sat. morning.

i saw Arco's player post after uploading started, so I assume they are working on getting theirs in, and will be in by tommorow morning too.

If all goes well, we can be started this weekend. if all goes really well, we have even get half a dozen turns done over the weekend.

I can't wait to get started. Shinuyama looks like one of the most interesting and fun nations I've seen, with a lot of potential and variability, although difficult to use well. After getting the chance to tinker and test with them, I wonder why I've never noticed them before, and don't see them mentioned much.