Monster SCENARIO Project
 

PROJECT

Im trying to gather all my thoughts and get some feedback on what would be the largest possible scenario project possible using all of the programmable features of Dominions 3. One big zip file which would include much more than usually offered.

Re: Monster SCENARIO Project
 

STORYLINE
I have no idea yet.
"Beware Global Swarming"?
"Dominions Civil War"?
"the TimeLine has Ruptured!"?
"We have created a Pantheon. Well we created one also!"?

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SCENARIO
A scenario is not just a mod, and not just a map, and not just a 3rd party program you can run to modify something. A scenario is a storyline chain of events, which in this case you can take part in when you play it.

It could be a mod with more storyline than usual, or a map with more storyline than usual. But in this case, Im kindof going for all of the above.

A desktop icon (shortcut) to start the game putting you right into it. Seperarate from your Dom3 shortcut. This would take you directly into this game when you click it. It would also insure that the correct parameters are run. The mod, the settings, preexec, postexec, stats, log, scores, backups, etc.

The pre-exec program (prior to each turn being hosted) would check to see if things have happened in the game which the scenario needs to act on. Im not sure yet what those will be. Maybe reaching a certain year, specific spells being cast, independents down to a certain percent meaning everyone has grown to a certain point, etc.

The map (graphic) might come in multiple flavors which will be used as the game progresses.

The map (.map) will mostly setup specifics such as AI players and independents.

The defaults mod will need to list everything that is not only modified for the game, but anything that we might want changed later in mid-game.

The post-exec program (after each turn is hosted) might just have places for each person to figure out and insert whatever method they want for making backups, notifying the player that the turn has processed, etc. But maybe we can figure out how to get some of the options to work in a generic manner.

Mod 1, Mod 2, Mod 3 would be variations and changes which need to happen later. Possibly, because I love to do such things, we will go with a program to randomize some of this to increase re-playablity of the scenario.

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SHORTCUT
An icon specific to this game.

A shortcut which calls Dom3 generically. Without an actual install program this might be difficult but generally something like...
"C:\Program Files\dominions3\dom3.exe" -fwacd --magicsites 65 --renaming --indepstr 7 --hofsize 15 --eventrarity 1 --
--statfile --scoredump --preexec pre.bat --postexec post.bat --mapfile scenario.map scenario

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PRE-EXEC
Some of the things that can be "seen" and reacted to would be:
1) what turn or year it is
2) what season it is
3) certain nations failing to upload turn files, or failing to upload a turn for X number of hostings
4) how many nations have dropped out
5) how many are owned by a nation or by all nations:
provinces, forts, income, gem income, research, dominion, army size, victory points
6) all of the above as it applies to Independents to gauge the progression of the game. Such as when there are less than 10% provinces held by indepts.
7) largest change in any of the above
8) how many of something has entered the game:
assassins, horrors, global spells
9) certain specific provinces being attacked (when the home of xxxx is attacked then act)
10) certain spells being cast (meaning a way to check if a certain research level has been reached, or to know that AI Ermor is now capable of xxxxx)
11) what random events have run
12) specific items gotten from combats
13) overkills (such as a 2000 army killing a 200 army)

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placeholder

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MAP (graphic)
The map can be changed after a game has started. However Dom3 does not reread the file between hostings. If you quit the game, and restart it, then the changed image will appear. I might be able to find some way to hot-swap it. But even as "the next days play" there might be some use of this. It does open doors for a time-progression map. That way we can not only alter units, but the image of the land too.

Re: Monster SCENARIO Project
 

MAP (.map file)
As always Im tempted to include my own scattered monsters. Or maybe something with Ballbarians SemiRand program.

Probably the storyline will involve some AIs with predefined pretenders, scales, etc.

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DEFAULTS MOD
Its very important that the initial mod at LEAST include a placeholder for each item, unit, pretender, independent that we plan to change later in the game. If the mild mannered lore master is going to become a huge raging demon later in the game, then the initial mod must contain the mild mannered lore master even if it only dublicates him with no changes. He must be in the mod.

Re: Monster SCENARIO Project
 

post exec

Re: Monster SCENARIO Project
 

mod 1

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mod 2

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mod 3

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place holder

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documentation

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accreditation

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anyone have any thoughts so far?

Re: Monster SCENARIO Project
 

Sure..

THe Pantheon idea seems easy yet flexible.

3 good, 6 neutral, 3 evil

3 of the neutral would be played by computers and would be the sea nations trying to overrun the lands. (this might be seen as evil.. I know http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif but they will be a separate team none the less)


In the course of time you could have the 3 player controlled neutral nations choose sides for either good or evil. (maybe not a real choice but create an event in their nation that would make it look like one of the other sides was really insulting them (though they'd probably be at war anyway .. but I'm sure something can be thought of) so they'd join the other side.

Then in the progress of the game you could have some lands turn to sea (change map) to help the computer races a bit and make it look like the water races are conquering the lands. If you give computer controlled waternations a boost and don't give player races that can easily acces the water they might put up a decent fight.

In the end good or bad would win... and then maybe be forced to fight eachother.. or something. Or let a final deathmatch decide which god will rule the Pantheon.

Not terribly original but it would work

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Other things that could happen
- a vulcano erupts, creating a barren waste where an AI controlled abyssian empire is spawned..

- You could increase the map while leaving the original lands intact --> exploration all players (or at least parties) would have to be situated somewhat equal to map edges to make this fair

- in the same thing you could add portals to the world later (just new map connections connecting far away lands) so standing defences would be less valuable (though end game has magic to do this so probably need to do this in mid game)

- and via same options you could even unlock new worlds (just place a new map beside the current one with a few connections as done in underworld maps or multi-layer maps)

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Or suddenly have MA rhlyeh turn into LA dreamlands... would certainly change a game... ro turn MA ermor into LA ermor..

or just make all nations evolve to another age...

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The scenario could consist of parallel series of mods (good vs good, evil vs evil, neutral vs neutral) meeting in a final conflict..... or

You could use a sequential series of mods with increasing difficulty. Perhaps you could carry over a small retinue or treasure from the previous mod.

I hope my vague suggestions help.

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Wouldnt that be "Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"?
"Otherwise argue that Carthage be destroyed"?
and we dont talk about hosts that way in my threads http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

You both need to change your sigs.

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I'm pretty sure maps are onnly read once, when the game is created. Mods can be changed. The map image could, perhaps, be changed, but the .map can't be, so changing terrain is impossible but adding more provinces might work.

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Changing the map image as LA Ermor's dominion grows would be fun. For better effect, you'd have to know in which province it is (or check population numbers/income/unrest) but I don't think this info is available, although we can know who Ermor attacked, so you could turn all provinces attacked by Ermor into something ugly...

Unlocking horrors as spell research evolves could be thematic, if random events can be used (like replacing barbarian attacks by horror attacks if someone reached XXX in research).

A simple thing could be blind research, although it could hinder strategy somewhat.
Make many spells impossible to cast until spell research has reached a certain level. That way, the spells wouldn't be documented until someone unlocked the corresponding spell research level. You'd probably know the 9th level spells when someone has researched 4 paths at 7, but it's not much of a problem. This suggestion would only work if the content of the mod isn't known to the players, however, or if the added spells are created randomly (stuff like changing 1 level for fireball, or never allowing a summons spell, or limiting it to a random nation or a nation with the least current number of provinces...).

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Graying of terrain under death dominion, greening under growth, whitening under cold, etc... could be very cool. It would have been really nice if the game would reread the terrain and neighbors information in the map file. Regardless, the idea of time progression reflected in the map image really peeks my interest in this project. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

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I have absolutely no idea how to do this, but I always envisioned a scenario that starts EA, goes for say 30-40 turns and switches to MA and then a similar sequence to a LA switch. Players would start the next age staying with the same national lineage (ie EA Mictlan, MA Mictlan and LA Mictlan)and same provinces they ended with, maybe have a 10% random change in province ownership to add an unknown variable to the era change. Keep the same pretender, capital province, carryover gems and gold, and research tree. Not a single good idea how to deal with armies and commanders when the era changes.

Probably would be best to start on an enormous 1500 province map with a limited number of nations so the EA expansion has a limited probability of knocking a nation out.

Probably rerandomize (is that a word?) sites just for the heck of it at the era changes. That would at least get rid of carryover castles, but I don't know if that is good or bad.

I think it could be done with a tedious map edit after the end of each era, and the carryover research tree is totally beyond me.

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If there was a way to gain access to that information with a 3rd party program, it would be quite easy to change the map accordingly, with the help of the preexec/postexec, but somehow I just don't see it happening http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

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I am almost 100% sure you are correct. I have altered map files during a game without effecting any changes.

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Yeah, that's what I've done as well. Tried to edit #maptextcol and the icon size value, but the changes didn't take effect before I created a new game.

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You can change the map image of course (as I think someone said above), just not the terrains, neighbour lists and so on.

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So this is how Gandalf managed to accumulate over 9k posts. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

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If you can't change neighbours I guess you can't add province either..

basicly you can't change anything really fun or game changing then.. too bad.. I like the idea of cold, ermor etc getting visuals with it.. but it really doesn't change much.

You could make a REAL huge mod file and add units later in the game depending on scales.
To be really fair about that you'd have to have settings for all scales in advance though and 90% of the wouldn't be used.. seems a bit like a waste. (This idea is derived from the summons thread where someone wants the ulm warwagon unlocked at prod 3... which is a real nice idea. but as I said.. a lot of work.. for a lot of races... and not much would be used.)

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Adding national spells based on how the game evolves could be fun:
1st to reach level X in research unlocks national spell Summon Nasty Djinn.
Whoever controls DeadRat Province unlocks unlocks national spell Summon RatLord.
Nation controlling least number of provinces, and, if tied, best in research, by turn 12 unlocks Summon Meek Paladin.
etc.

Longer to code, nation specific events could be done too, like:
Any nation controlling less than 12 provinces by turn 10 and the 2 smallest nations (more if tied) by turn 10 get a permanent discount of 10% in gold and +1 attack for their best non commander unit.
Nation with best dominion by turn 15 gets its weakest national priest gain H2 if it was only H1, with a cost increase of +20 gold.

Re: Monster SCENARIO Project
 

The .map file is read once, but the image is read each time you boot up Dominions.
The MODs are read each time but it does cause problems if you try to add things to the game later. But you can CHANGE things already in the game. So units, items, spells, pretenders, etc can be changed. A spell could be put in at the beginning of the game which said something like "a mistery" and then later changed to do specific things depending on how the game had progressed. Such as, a "Spell of Balance" and if there is too much Order dominion then it becomes a spell of Chaos, and vise versa.

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It would be awesome if this scenario was a gigantic map that created the "World of Dominions" that you could play the three different ages with!

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It could be possible to progressively, as turns increase, make units unrecruitable and replace them with new ones, thus faking a change of Ages. The only problem is Ermor and R'lyeh LA dominions are probably impossible to change in-game?

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For a single game to progress thru the ages would require that the intial mod include all of the units for all of the nations for all 3 era's. The units for mid and late eras would start out "zero'd out" in abilities. And I guess the national magic sites would have to be included also, with mid and late eras also being zero'd out. Each nation would start with 3 home castles with the appropriate magic sites. As the game moved to mid era the early units and national sites would become zero'd and the mid age would become filled in. There would be some problems with nations which did not progress in a direct line thru all 3 ages but the game could include those as pop-up AIs and only allow human-playing of the ones that do have a 1-2-3 progression.

That would he a MASSIVE project. I think I would leave something like that to someome abit less A.D.D. than I am. But I would love to see it done Mostly, because along the way it would create the "mods which simply duplicate a nation" which I have been asking for to allow big games to allow nations to play the same nations. To prove who's strategy for that nation is better. Could you see games where 20 players all play Ulm against other Ulm's?

Re: Monster SCENARIO Project
 

The way I was thinking to have a single game progress through the ages was to run 30 turns or so EA. The game stops at that point, someone with a lot of time and patience edits the map to reflect the changes from the EA phase and the MA game starts a new game on the edited map. The sequence repeats on the MA to LA transition. This is manageable within the editing parameters as they exist now.

The game would probably have to limit itself to the nations that do segue through the ages, although things like EA Helheim and Vanheim could both be assigned a Vanheim MA nation.

Excluding the time it would take to do the map edit, the largest hurdle is figuring out how to do the troop/ commander transitions from era to era.

Gandalf, I also am surprised that no one has played a MP game with everyone playing the same nation. Someone has made a map where all provinces are hexagons. That would level the field a bit more. The only chance factor would be sites and province type distribution. A game like this would definately provide maximum bragging rights for the winner.

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There are maps which take care of the province type problem. And Im not sure if anyone has but it would be possible to also take care of the magic sites distribution. Also population density, types of independents, etc etc. About the only thing left random would be the events which could be set at low for the game if that doesnt factor into some peoples pretender builds (like it does with many of mine).

And as I understand it, the mod would be very doable. But apparently boring. Instead of creating anything, you would just be trying to use mod commands to duplicate each nation into a mod.

I feel such mods would serve the community strongly. Not only for the strategists to fight out "my Ulm is better than your Ulm". But as starting points for new modders for example. It would certainly help me to see how mod commands would create a nation I already know pretty well from playing it. How is each ability granted by mod commands. Then I would SEE exactly where to try small changes such as national spell or the armor of a particular unit.

I can also see some fun scenario games such as "the Brothers Ulm take on the World". Or "The 7 Kingdoms of Ulm. The Ulm Pretender was on the road toward becoming The One. He had 7 sons when he was finally killed in a stupid arena combat."

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Heehee. Actually padding the beginning of the thread with placeholders was something I saw someone else do and it struck me as a good idea for something like this.

On the other hand, this is beginning to show people why I have that post count. I tend to post idea threads that create a ton of conversation. And (hopefully) get half a dozen people to start projects since most of my talk ends up just being talk. Many of our best projects from Dom1, Dom2, Dom3 started that way. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

My brain is active but my fingers are lazy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Gandalf Parker

Re: Monster SCENARIO Project
 

So what is the plan then Gandalf in which direction will this mod go?

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I dont have one yet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/stupid.gif
That was part of why I laid out a post for each step of it. I created the "Scenarios, Maps and Mods" forum and have always regretted the small number of scenarios compared to Dom2.
Ive done fancy shortcuts, preexec, postexec, and maps. I dabbled abit in mods and was fascinated at the information that they could be changed in mid-game. Ive written many scripts which modify any and all of the above.

I had various notes about how they could all be tied in together but nothing that jumped up and screamed to be done. At least, not that I felt in my power. Of them all, MOD is my weakest so anything extensively built around the mod part I will be happy just to have spurred someone else to create it for us. Even if they use the whole scenario package idea, I would have no problem with that.

I was hoping for some other ideas in each of the various pieces about what would be impressive "if it could be done". Thats one of my favorite subjects "if it could be done".

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Hey my scenario type of map (gangwars) got so few feedback I can't really work on it anymore.. I think it's just not really a scenario kind of game.

The best idea's I had (idea's I liked most I mean) above where then ones where you could change the map.. but I heard that is out.. so that kinda sucks.

Still I think it might be worth modding rhyleys and ermor so they change from MA to LA, if you do it for only 2 nations it will be less trouble and it will have a huge impact on the game. Personally I think that should definately be in this scenario. It is nice if they are played by AI and the AI might even be pretty decent with hordes of chaff. (not to mention giving them to a player is always somewhat unbalancing certainly if there are pantheons so the nearest neighbours can protect him a bit to get started)

So if you have no plans my main suggestions would be

1. Pantheons
2. MA Ermor and Rhyley changing to LA

another thing.. I read a bit about scripting events.. I have not heard about it before and never read about it in the mod files (I think) can that really be done? and to what extend... it would be very kewl

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There was a Civ2 scenario that I loved, Prince of Darkness.
It was more of an RPG than anything, but it was quite fun and I think something along the lines could be done:
Roughly, you had to move your character here and there in order to be given a Fireball which you could use to destroy the gates of Dis and vanquish the Devil nation before they started summoning devils so strong that the combined armies of all other civs couldn't beat one.
Additionally, it required some cooperation between civs as some techs could only be researched by certain civs.

So this could be adapted somehow:
Have Big Bad Player on one side (LA Ermor anyone?). If it reaches a certain research level or turn, boost the strength of its national only units. Undead legionaires, lictors and such would be nice for instance, because the ai would have many of them. Basically, something another player cannot wish for becomes extra strong. The problem is you should prevent players from charming/enslaving/... these before they become strong.
So the rest of the players should team to get rid of Ermor (or R'lyeh or whoever).
To that end, the event that causes the undead to become hyper powerful can be delayed if certain spells are cast, preferably national only spells, each spell having an effect only once. So Ermor becomes unbeatable by turn 40 unless someone casts spell X which gives 10 more turns, spell Y which gives 12 more, etc.

In addition, that civ2 scenario provided you with angels and such nice fighters if you managed to do some quest, so it would be possible to have some unit become reruitable and worthwhile if a given province was attacked/controlled, helping fend off the hordes.
Spells could also become stronger under certain conditions (gain x2 against undead if...)

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Hmmmm not bad.
I really like the thing about visiting certain sites. That would be really easy to do. And not allowing sneaks to do it would be easy. Have the pre-exec check the log each turn "watching" for combat results for certain provinces. It could even keep track of who visited so that you still got credit even if another player "visited" (took over) the province later. Visiting 5 ancient sites would "unlock" an item or a spell by having the 3rd-party-program rewrite the games mod file to give powers to them (they would have been in the game all along but with little or not powers). Hmmmm you could even have many sites, but have the powers granted depend on WHICH sites you visited. Or even have it be incremental as each site is visited. "You have visited City of Death and your pretender crown now allows the summoning of xxxxxxx".

And the thing about casting a spell to add time to a timer would be quite possible also. Another thought is that it could add a nice scenario feature to a multiplayer game. Ermor is going postal unless the xxxxxx global is cast and gems are used to maintain it. So now, do you let another player do it and trust them to maintain it, or do it yourself? I can even see a forum conversation charging the other players gems to help you maintain the shield.

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Another remembering of old ideas I could incorporate in this.

Adding mid-game messages. Give each nation a "town crier" unit, or maybe an Oracle, or a Standing Stones with Runes. As the game progresses, the unit can provide information from the scenario, or the person running the game.

OK as cool as this sounds, I cant seem to come up with a reason for it. I dont know what info from outside of the game should be transported to inside the game. Some info on the game which cant be gotten from the score graphs inside the game? What info would that be?

Maybe "gossip" on who is in the lead if you wanted to run a game without scoreboards or any nation info. Instead of getting comparison info on everyone all game, or no info on anyone, maybe just a gossip list of who is at the top in each category?

I guess it could be done up to do game hints. Like the ones you see at each hosting, but this one could read randomly from a file that the players can create. That might be a cool thing to package and make available for a download seperately but not as part of this project.

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OK. How about this idea. What nations can be given a decent "change of tactics" in midgame?

The first that comes to mind would be Ermor. But I dont think I can get Ermor to switch tactics by changing the mod of the units in mid-game. It would be sweet though. When the game log file shows Ermor losing many battles then that means a nation has their number. Attacking with many priests against undead. So shift Ermor to a units base instead of undead? Im not sure that would work for Ermor. But maybe some other nations?

Make it more cost-reasonable for Arcos to make armies until they hit other nations, then shift to a more mage-oriented research mode?

Make it cost reasonable for Oceania to make fully-aquatic more-efficient water fighting units until it starts hitting land, then shift it to making amphibious units?

Make castles cheaper for all of the AI until they start meeting with each other then make castles for AI expensive to keep them from using funds filling their area with overlapping castles?

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Why not do it the other way around?
Start MA Ermor without reanimation ability on their priests and give it to them later. Give them a summons spell that mid game becomes able to either generate undeads automatically or 'summon allies'.

You'd start with a Roman nation using little or no death magic and then increase the death skill of its mages mid-game (not sure if it works on existing commanders), give the priests reanimate, provide summons that spam undead chaff automatically.

You might even mod a spell for 2 or 3 turns only so Ermor would have the ability to suddenly summon hordes of undead for cheap, but this ability wouldn't last long and afterwards you'd just reanimate.

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Im not sure if an added spell is used by the AI. One of the more experienced modders might let us know.

But changes would definetly be a good answer. I hadnt thought of the reverse. That would make a good game and be logical. As the armored nation of Ermor starts getting its *** kicked, the mages come up with a solution and start cranking out undead.

Im not sure how much of Ermors undead comes from its units though. I got the impression it was kindof a built-in thing just from being the nation Ermor. I dont know if thats touchable by mod.

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I don't think you can mod the dominion free spawning units, but you could add freespawn to some units like a cheap 0 move priest who previously was useless and expensive. By becoming cheap, the priest would be hired, not move, just reanimate and freespawn some unit.
IT's definitely not the dom-killing Ermor dominion, but you could use MA Ermor and make it look like LA that way, except it wouldn't destroy its population.