Reality and fiction meet in a bad way
 

One of the things I love about Dominions is that each nation is so different. Many play counter intuitively and sometimes you need to do things that seem like a really bad idea. For example, a sloth scale or a death scale just don’t make much sense in real life. This was always the fictional element of the game, the fantasy part of the war game.

But today I was thinking about reality and discovered that there is a scary situation where someone is really trying to run a Dominions nation in real life. Joseph Kony and the Lord’s Resistance Army in Uganda.

The guy outright states he hears from spirits and has his followers convinced he has magic powers. He is a pretender. The methods the movement use are warped, like Ermor or some of the Blood nations. They steal children and force them to fight for them. Initiation often includes forcing the kids to kill or mutilate family members. The movement thrives on turmoil and make no pretence of governing the population, they just loot. And they have been doing this “successfully” for over 15 years.

I never thought I would see the really counter intuitive parts of the game function outside the fictional world, but regret to discover I was wrong. It is tough to see such negative and outright evil practices succeed. Of course, playing Ermor right now doesn’t help much, but I did pick the nation back in January, when Kenya was falling apart, so perhaps I should not be so surprised to see unreasonable things turning out to be functional, at least for some.

In any case, this is not a cheery post, but I doubt many other people would get my attempts to understand regional politics through a prism of computer gaming... My thanks for your indulgence.

Re: Reality and fiction meet in a bad way
 

Same deal with various warlord groups - the actually thrive by causing turmoil and chaos - civil war means more recruits and opportunities for them and not just in the short term - this kind of thing can be sustained for decades in the modern world where aid is shipped out and populations are able to move across borders more easily.

Re: Reality and fiction meet in a bad way
 

Well, closed borders, of course, mean that 'order dominion' pays off better...
Considering the game itself - you should note that one of its authors has a degree in folklore & the latter contains an experience of many generations who lived through many different situations. Of course, using actual myths, etc. for framework could be better, but Dominions, while being free with mixing and changing, is very good in being true to spirit of them - one of the things I love it for...

Re: Reality and fiction meet in a bad way
 

Religions have very frequently been used as justification for governments, mostly bad governments... but that does take the cake.

Re: Reality and fiction meet in a bad way
 

khmer rouge has used child soldiers forever. one picture burned into my brain is that of a child soldier, looking cooly into the camera, smoking a cigar.

but hey. who won on american idol last night? did you see tiger woods make that shot? lets go see a movie. i'm fat and still hungry, lets go outback tonight.

Re: Reality and fiction meet in a bad way
 

Yeah, the Khmer Rouge is another good example of really bad policies that worked for a small segment of the population, the rulers. Really bad for the rest though...

My bias of a modern, neo classical liberal take on democracy and what is good for the nation does seem a bit odd in retrospect. Even a progressive monarchy in the 18th century still did a lot of things that seem really dumb today. Taking the longer view, most of human history has been under scales high on sloth, a belief that luck and magic exists, a willingness to tolerate death and a tolerance of disorder. No wonder our folklore reflects it.

But as you say, not a problem, we all have internet connections and check out the latest Jessica Alba photos...

Re: Reality and fiction meet in a bad way
 

Lets go post on a message board about a game, and speculate how real life atrocities are best represented in the game.

Re: Reality and fiction meet in a bad way
 

You are right, American Idol is an atrocity, but I just don’t see how we can build it into the game…

More seriously, this topic is too morbid and I vote we drop it. A fantasy game will bear some similarities to real life but, comments in the manual about fantasy history class aside, comparisons can only be taken so far.

Re: Reality and fiction meet in a bad way
 

The real life atrocity of american idol is best represented by the arena deathmatch. No-one's interested in it but it continues on regardless.

Re: Reality and fiction meet in a bad way
 

The United States as a country donates more money and time to Africa than any other non African country in the world. It's still not enough, but it should be enough that we are not the whipping boy for Africa's problems. That being said, as my generation gets older and begins to take public offices in the United States, I think that Africa will become the number one foreign issue as things come to a close in the middle east.

Re: Reality and fiction meet in a bad way
 

For Africa's sake I hope they never become USA's number one foreign issue. But that is unlikely anyway - there are no significant oil deposits in Africa.

Re: Reality and fiction meet in a bad way
 

Unless you think that's what Foodstamp meant with his comment, I suggest editing your post and adding a smiley, at least.


This thread is morbid enough even before people start arguing about politics. One would think that this forum would have moderators to issue some sterns words in situations like this. I wonder if Shranel Games should recruit some new ones. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Reality and fiction meet in a bad way
 

Since this was borderline off-topic to start with (not particularly a problem), then wandered well into off-topic, its been moved to the Bar and Grill which is more appropriate and allows abit more leeway before becoming completely in danger of deletion.

Re: Reality and fiction meet in a bad way
 

a perfect example of lying with statistics

although america donates a larger absolute value, they donate among the lowest proportional value as measured in GNI (gross national income). further, it is worth looking at exactly how this "aid" is being used. american aid is typically used to further american hegemony; and in the end often does more harm than good. example: in the 70's american aid in africa was used to encourage rapid industrialization of urban centers. all this did was create catastrophic urban growth leading to ignored rural areas, homelessness, poverty, disease, and a huge rich-poor gap. further, this industrialization was always in the interest of american business and hegemony, profits and resources were siphoned out of africa, and in return africans were given slums and a host of social problems.

before we toss about numbers about whose helping out the most, its worth looking at what this "help" is really all about. more appropriate avenues of development (such as the so called "appropriate technology", alternative technology, and soft energy paths) are squelched by politically entrenched opposing advocates coming from american business and commercial sectors, with interests invested in these sectors. because of the way american economy is organized (around shareholders), there is pressure for these advocates to make the quick buck, rather than go for the sustainable development. So they move for direct transfer of technology and resources that can allow for rapid industrialization or digitization (no matter the future consequences).

Re: Reality and fiction meet in a bad way
 

Ouch! My ribs still ache from that elbow. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Reality and fiction meet in a bad way
 

Too bad Americon Idol doesn't result in all but one contestant getting killed off... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Reality and fiction meet in a bad way
 

I don't expect things to "come to a close" in the Middle East until after global warming makes the area too hot for human habitation.

Many of Africa's problems are due to our naive belief that any problem can be solved merely by throwing enough money at it.

American foreign policy is a lot more understandable if you think of the USA as a teenager with ADHD and an excessive allowance. (It doesn't make our policies make any more sense; it just makes it more more clear why we do the boneheaded things we do.)

Re: Reality and fiction meet in a bad way
 

Lying aye? A bit of an extreme accusation don't you think? And then after you call me a liar, your very first sentence proving I am a liar says the exact same thing I said.

As I said, the money is not enough. The money needs direction, but it seems every country throws money towards Africa without direction. My point is shouldn't another country be considered the uncaring country besides the country that has tried the most?

My statement was a reaction to someone alluding to how sorry the United States is when it comes to helping other countries. Well, the United States practically carries the load economically when it comes to helping other countries. You can divide that number by 2 multiplied by pi and call me a liar, but you cannot change that fact.

United States bashing gets old after a while. It seems every country hates our country, even though our country plays a huge role in their ability to maintain their way of life. To top it off, half of Americans hate our country and constantly want it to be more like France, or some other leftist state. Those people often do not realize that we cannot afford to live like those countries because we are too busy allocating funds to a military to protect not only our country, but other countries' ways of life. Yet as always, those countries would prefer spit on us, much like a hippie in the 70s would spit on an American troop and feel justified.

Omnirizon, your insult to my integrity will not receive anymore attention than this reply. I have very little respect for people on the internet that treat people with disrespect and name calling thanks to the anonymity of the internet. And I have very little time to play Dominions, much less time to respond to childish "your a liar" posts.

Re: Reality and fiction meet in a bad way
 

I didn't mean to insult you, foodstamp. I guess I just wanted to start my diatribe with a bold statement to capture attention; "lying with statistics" was what came to mind. I never intended it to refer to you personally, but to the practice of using absolute monetary values to demonstrate a nation's degree of "aid" to another.

Thicken your skin a little http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif In the liberal arts, being told you are lying with statistics is a pretty tame criticism, and par for the course. I've been told, and I've told, much much worse.

Re: Reality and fiction meet in a bad way
 

And part of the reason our military budget is so big is that every time the military proposes to close some redundant bases as a cost-cutting measure, every politician that represents the area the base is in, domestic or foreign, protests about the loss of economic stimulus to their community.

The military even has trouble shutting down production of equipment that they don't even want any more, because the politicos won't let the program die.

Re: Reality and fiction meet in a bad way
 

I don't see it as an insult. I think that the term "lying with statistics" was coined long ago and used so many times that it is just a common well-known saying. I think that some people even wrote books about it with that exact title. All that it means is that statistics can be misinterpreted and easily represented in a misleading way to imply a wrong meaning.

Re: Reality and fiction meet in a bad way
 

Eh, but what the West has done for decades has been to go to "third world" countries, provide made up statistics about how their economy would "grow" and prosper if they had a modern Western infrastructure, "loaned" them a huge amount of money (which all gets paid to Western corporations) to build that infrastructure, resulting in a huge national debt, which the Western economists forecast would be easily paid off by the "economic growth" which doesn't happen, resulting in a perpetual "obligation" to the West.