Tech Council
 

I have e-mailed Richard for preliminary enquiries about hosting a website for the tech council.
Now I've started to get the ball rolling hopefully it wont be too long before it all gets sorted.
A few things first.

The main plan so far is as follows.
1. Get a website (either on ShrapnelGames as a hosted site or elsewhere)
2. Establish a communications network for the modders (e-mail, ICQ, IRC, whatever)
3. Elect council members (3-5 competant modders)

The idea behind the council is that those who are less capable can submit to the council ideas and suggestions. The council would then either incorporate those suggestions into an existing mod or to make a new mod based on those suggestions.
Also, the website can be a resource for modders, storing information about the files, utilities, FAQs and ultimately the mods themselves.
Things will need to be introduced to prevent 'lost updates' (2 modders working on same file at same time) so a Concurrent Versioning System or similar will be needed.

Hopefully we'll have the best (only?) SE4 editing site around.

Anyway.. just ideas at the moment.

As with all of my ramblings, feel free to comment / criticise.

------------------
The Unofficial Space Empires 4 Mod Utility V2.0
------------------
Download as a .ZIP <HERE>
Download as a .RAR <HERE>
Download as a .ACE <HERE>
Check a Screenshot of it<HERE>

Check an Alpha Shot of my Mod Editor (Unreleased) <HERE>

My Geekcode : RNmPeOr MpPi2!+ Rp++ Tcp+ Fq+++!@ M+++ Fr= P+? A+++ Sf= T++--

Checkout your Geekcode :-
.Zip <HERE>
.Rar <HERE>
.Ace <HERE>

Re: Tech Council
 

I like it, I hope it comes off and everyone work together on it. It could be the beginning of something never before seen, cooperation by all to make an excellent game even more so.

The council could send to MM those changes that hard coding would be necessary.

just some ideas mac

Re: Tech Council
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>There are numerous ideas on the forum for incorporation into the game, but the council would go thru them, see which ones are feasible for patch & mods, put changes to vote of the forum members, then send to MM and modders.
This keeps fresh input into the game, keeps interest up, and makes the game better.
Some of us are not modders and don't like to tinker with a game but would like to see changes put into the original game for better play.

A super Mod, realisticly, is not feasible like SJ stated, but a Better Realistic Mod could be made possible if the council keeps and sorts which ideas to use.
To put all ideas into the game, would be an impossible task, but a lot of them could be done if everyone cooperates and a nunber MM could patch into the game itself.

I like the concept and idea of the council. Changes could be by majority vote by the council for specific ideas, then to the forum for majority of members, then sent to MM.
This would cut down on the number of e-mailes to Aaron & Richard & MM and put foreward and would help with patchs to incorporate that which the majority would like to see...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like what you said here. You seem to have a good grasp on what I'm getting at.

------------------
The Unofficial Space Empires 4 Mod Utility V2.0
------------------
Download as a .ZIP &lt;HERE&gt;
Download as a .RAR &lt;HERE&gt;
Download as a .ACE &lt;HERE&gt;
Check a Screenshot of it&lt;HERE&gt;

Check an Alpha Shot of my Mod Editor (Unreleased) &lt;HERE&gt;

My Geekcode : RNmPeOr MpPi2!+ Rp++ Tcp+ Fq+++!@ M+++ Fr= P+? A+++ Sf= T++--

Checkout your Geekcode :-
.Zip &lt;HERE&gt;
.Rar &lt;HERE&gt;
.Ace &lt;HERE&gt;

Re: Tech Council
 

the TDM guys (Tampa Gamer, Mephisto, and who was the 'D?') had something like this at one time. the TDM council took advice and requests for the forums, and the ones that did not fit within the TDM mod (ai mod only, did not change game settings) were picked up by Devnullicus.

I think that concept died out since those people stopped modding, or slowed down anyhow, and the community kept wanting things done. I think there are alot of good ideas out there, but what i would like to see is a central place that takes all the mod ideas, including existing ones, and breaks it down into a.. well, a 'modular' fashion. for instance, maybe i like the P&N hull sizes and new components, but i dont like the actual pirates and nomads racial traits. maybe i like newtonian motion, but not the organic armor fix.

the problem with this is, that most of the AI races will only play inteligently with the basic technology tree and an unmodded game. which is the problem TDM ran into.

Maybe sections could be setup, where you have a list of standard mods. then you can have a 'base components' section, where the data for new components or techtrees could be posted. also, an AI section, with each AI and shipset for download, but also with a flag indicating which mods they work under (if any).

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"...the green, sticky spawn of the stars"
(with apologies to H.P.L.)

Re: Tech Council
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>and who was the 'D?') <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Daynarr

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 22 August 2001).]

Re: Tech Council
 

Puke : I like the idea of a modular approach.
Indeed a program could be written eventually (I have my hands full at the moment) which could take 'modules' and create the mod from whichever ones you select.
I dont know how plausible it is.
Think of it as a 'plug-n-play' mod system.

------------------
The Unofficial Space Empires 4 Mod Utility V2.0
------------------
Download as a .ZIP &lt;HERE&gt;
Download as a .RAR &lt;HERE&gt;
Download as a .ACE &lt;HERE&gt;
Check a Screenshot of it&lt;HERE&gt;

Check an Alpha Shot of my Mod Editor (Unreleased) &lt;HERE&gt;

My Geekcode : RNmPeOr MpPi2!+ Rp++ Tcp+ Fq+++!@ M+++ Fr= P+? A+++ Sf= T++--

Checkout your Geekcode :-
.Zip &lt;HERE&gt;
.Rar &lt;HERE&gt;
.Ace &lt;HERE&gt;

Re: Tech Council
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Puke:
I think that concept died out since those people stopped modding, or slowed down anyhow<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Slowed down (arguably yes), stopped modding (never) http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

We are all still here, still modding our races and even as of yesterday, still sending Aaron suggestions about how a few changes/tweaks can greatly increase the level of AI customization and "intelligence". We are also posting a small update this week. Our major releases tend to coincide with patches. . .

Re: Tech Council
 

As a suggestion, why not attempt to follow guidlines similar to what they did for the TDM-Modpack, restrict the mod to modifing the various data files so that any changes could be used by existing AI's with no modifications to the AI files. Work at things like balancing weapon damage/size/and research cost so that some weapons are not used so extensivly, and others that are seldom used gain popularity; adjustist the facilities so that the temporal shipyards are treated as an upgrade to to normal shipsyards, modify the output of extraction facilities and monoliths so they will actually get used by the AI, etc...

Re: Tech Council
 

The problem with doing that is it restricts (quite badly) what we would be able to do.
What I'm putting forward is a resource where people can ask for something to be done, and it will be (if possible)
This way, if people want a mod that can be used with any AI, they can have one.
Wheras those that want a mod that realistically can only be used for multiplayer can have theirs as well.

------------------
The Unofficial Space Empires 4 Mod Utility V2.0
------------------
Download as a .ZIP &lt;HERE&gt;
Download as a .RAR &lt;HERE&gt;
Download as a .ACE &lt;HERE&gt;
Check a Screenshot of it&lt;HERE&gt;

Check an Alpha Shot of my Mod Editor (Unreleased) &lt;HERE&gt;

Re: Tech Council
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Atraikius:
...restrict the mod to modifing the various data files so that any changes could be used by existing AI's with no modifications to the AI files...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps have two sets of mods on the site-- one that AI's could use without tweaking (for solo games) and one that AI's could not use not effectively (for PBEM/PBW games). Thus we would not be limited by what we would want to implement, just in the environment the mods would be effective in.

Quikngruvn

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Stay alert. Trust no one. Keep your laser handy.
--from the RPG Paranoia, now my PBW mantra

Re: Tech Council
 

Good idea, I was going to have this sort of divide as well http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Just waiting on Richard to reply to my e-mail inquiries about hosting here.

I *could* host it in the uploaded files section but it would be nicer to have a proper site http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

------------------
The Unofficial Space Empires 4 Mod Utility V2.0
------------------
Download as a .ZIP &lt;HERE&gt;
Download as a .RAR &lt;HERE&gt;
Download as a .ACE &lt;HERE&gt;
Check a Screenshot of it&lt;HERE&gt;

Check an Alpha Shot of my Mod Editor (Unreleased) &lt;HERE&gt;

Re: Tech Council
 

I'd like to be part of this. It's just too much work for one person to re-implement everything.

Perhaps the council could divide up the mod files. The owner of a file could have final say in what mods go into that file. Where there are different opinions, there can be more than one owner / Version of a file. Council votes could really come down to "which Version am I going to support in my mod file".

For example, if we have two competing vehiclesizes.txt files, the owner of Components.txt can support one, both, or none of them.

This creates a cooperative forum that recognizes the reality that no person can really force anyone else to do anything. Everyone's ideas, good and bad are welcome, just roll up your sleeves and start modding. The best Versions of each file will automatically be incorporated into a larger whole.

--LT

Re: Tech Council
 

Agreed.
We just need somewhere to host it now http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
If Richard replies with a negative, I wonder if Hadrian would mind hosting us at SpaceEmpires.org

Re: Tech Council
 

This will probally be much better than the HB "Universal Tech Council", which I was a part of (it never was finished). I would like to help, how can I (or just can I)?

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Grand Admiral Dravis
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&lt;SEIV Code&gt;
L&gt;L* GDX $? Fr! C-- SdS T!+ Sf* Tcp A% M++&gt;M+++++ MpH RTY Pw++ Fq&gt;Fq+++ Nd+++ Rp++ +/2 G%
&lt;/SEIV Code&gt;

Re: Tech Council
 

As soon as I get a site up I'll let you know.
I never knew HB had a tech council though...
what was it for?
what were it's aims?
and who was in it?

Re: Tech Council
 

Where's the link to it!

[ June 15, 2003, 06:25: Message edited by: General Talashar ]

Re: Tech Council
 

Dravis : That's what I was thinking.
We could possibly host the site there and store the MODs in ShrapnelGames' uploads...
would be a bit of a pain though.

Still no word from Richard so I'm sending another e-mail to him.

Re: Tech Council
 

Ok, have e-mailed and ICQd him http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
now for the wait http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon10.gif

Re: Tech Council
 

Richard's horrible with getting back to people, isn't he! lol

[ June 15, 2003, 06:27: Message edited by: General Talashar ]

Re: Tech Council
 

Will the site fit in under 1 meg? I don't think so because the site will have to have the MOD available for download. Unless you find another place for the MOD.

------------------
Grand Admiral Dravis
------------------
&lt;SEIV Code&gt;
L&gt;L* GDX $? Fr! C-- SdS T!+ Sf* Tcp A% M++&gt;M+++++ MpH RTY Pw++ Fq&gt;Fq+++ Nd+++ Rp++ +/2 G%
&lt;/SEIV Code&gt;

Re: Tech Council
 

Actually I am planning on making some DNS changes to launch a community.shrapnelgames.com to offer hosting for guys like you (and the tech council). Let me get to that.

In the mean time there's always our banner exchange program http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif.

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Sarge is coming...

Richard Arnesen
Director of Covert Ops
Shrapnel Games
http://www.shrapnelgames.com

Re: Tech Council
 

Ok, for now I'll look to getting it hosted on SourceForge.

Re: Tech Council
 

Matryx, sounds like everyone likes your idea, in the meantime while waiting to find location, how about setting up the system for the council to use: example. breakdown into areas such as

1. Mods for those areas that are moddable for incorporation into current or new mods
a. mods with Ai's
b. mods for multiplayer only
c. text file changes/additions/deletions

2. changes to be made in the original game itself. Remember not all of us are modders or like to tinker with original games.
a. hard code
b. patchable

3. New Ideas
a. maps
b. races/traits/designs/etc
c. ships/designs/capabilities/etc

4. Make up of the council. How many, (my opinion should be odd number in order to break tie votes). Should include both Modders and non modders.

5. Guidelines to govern the council and voting so everyone knows ahead of time, to eliminate any in house problems. This way everyone would know ahead of time how the council would work.

6. guideline to submit ideas to the forum members for their vote, etc.

these are just some of my ideas as examples, please don't misenterpet what i'm saying, I'm sure everyone has their ideas as well. Take the best ideas from everyone and incorporate into the council guidelines.

just some ideas mac

Re: Tech Council
 

I will help where ever I am needed. Don't mind doing grunt work either.

Like the idea and where it is going



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L? GdX $ Fr C++ SdT T+ Sf* Tcp+ A M++ MpTM ROTS Pw+ Fq+ Nd Rp++ G+

Re: Tech Council
 

Mac: in response.
1. I was thinking of 3 main areas of modding
I) AI
II) Tech
III) EyeCandy
That's all the areas available to modders as far as I can see so those will be the main "departments" of the tech council

2. Covered by 1. (and 5)

3. Covered by 1. (and 5)

4. Make up of council:-
I was thinking 5 modders. ONLY
Non-Modders shouldn't really have a place on the mod council. They can make suggestions, but since it's the council who will be coding it I dont really see a need for a non-modder there. (sorry if this sounds discriminatory but there are other jobs)

5. Guidelines will be set out when the site goes up. There will be set procedures for submission of AI requests, Eyecandy ideas, and tech ideas etc.

By the way, 'Tech' consititutes everything from new components to new tech levels.
'Eyecandy' refers to planet images, black holes, system layout, and other things that dont require changes to the AI.

'AI' refers to new shipsets and the related AIs or modification of existing AIs to use new technologies.

As for guidelines to the council, I'll work that out soon.
It'll be along the lines of sorting through the requests, taking tasks you can do yourself, and marking other tasks that you think require more than one person or some sort of discussion.

For people like Tesco Samosa we can find jobs organising / writing Tutorials based on interviews with modders, or reviewing existing mods etc.

Comments / Feedback?

------------------
The Unofficial Space Empires 4 Mod Utility V2.0
------------------
Download as a .ZIP &lt;HERE&gt;
Download as a .RAR &lt;HERE&gt;
Download as a .ACE &lt;HERE&gt;
Check a Screenshot of it&lt;HERE&gt;

Check an Alpha Shot of my Mod Editor (Unreleased) &lt;HERE&gt;

Re: Tech Council
 

Matryx, Sounds good to me, the only reason I mentioned non-modder is sometimes someone from the outside looking in can see something those working with the problem would not see because they are to close to it. 5 Modders is going to be tough with all the good modders out there like SJ, Tampa_Gamer, Daynarr, Atrocities and the rest, how about maybe 7? tough call anyway you look at it.

just some ideas mac

Re: Tech Council
 

I was thinking 7 originally but I don't know how many people will want to be part of this.
Anyway, I have put in the request to SourceForge for hosting and we'll hear the result within 72 hours.
I'm not sure if they'll host us because they are very "Open Source" related *only* and mods for SE4, while being Open Source themselves, are not exactly helping the Open Source community...
anyway... with regards to non-modders, by all means they can make suggestions, but the council is really just the coders...

Re: Tech Council
 

Well as I expected, sourceforge turned it down. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif
We'll just have to wait for Richard to set up the ShrapnelGames community.

Richard : will the URL be http://community.shrapnelgames.com/&lt;hostedname&gt;
or the snazzier and better http://&lt;hostedname&gt;.ShrapnelGames.Com
?

Re: Tech Council
 

Then there's always USEfans if everything else fails or we need more space for downloads. I think a 11 person council will be better, so there is enough space for the non-modders. Also I think there should be 1 or 2 ameture modders because they can always come up with different ideas. just an idea...