Army size graph
 

What exactly does the army size graph indicate? Is it based on number of units, hitpoints, gold cost value?

When I look at those graphs and how diverse they are in the early game I can only assume that they aren't a good judge of army power, adn one has to weigh in what each nation's army is likely to be composed of to get a fair sense of relative strength? My initial guess is that nations with high resource troops are underrepresented, and therefore guess it goes on gold or hitpoitns, but that's only a guess

Re: Army size graph
 

It's number of units only. It doesn't show the power of those units in any way.

Re: Army size graph
 

rote number of units, IIRC.

its worth ignoring that graph. some nations use a few high powered units, and will look weak on the army graph.

others use chaff, and will look strong; though they aren't necessarily.

provinces, gems, dominion, forts, and research are the important graphs. army is virtually worthless IMO.

this is all assuming army is absolute numbers, but I'm pretty sure it is.

Re: Army size graph
 

I'm actually pretty sure it measures size in the literal sense, so big units count more.

Re: Army size graph
 

thanks, feel much better about my abyssian army now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Army size graph
 

There are uses for this data, usually in combination with other data you have. Spikes and dips indicate some activity, which is can be useful to know about. Changes in recruiting patterns, build ups and beat downs, all give you information you can use.

Comparing nation to nation may not be useful for the reasons discussed, but comparing a nation to itself can be more directly useful. If you destroy 100 enemy units in an army that is typical of your experience with that nation, then look at the graph. Did they lose a third of their army? How fast do they re-build? How can you use that?

You see a spike in unit production, then face an army of milita. What does that say about their ability to produce good units? How can you take advantage of this?

Never ignore intelligence on the enemy, even if it is not the best or easiest to use.

Re: Army size graph
 

Agreed. The graphs in the game are more useful for watching the changes. The sudden climbs and dips.

But if you turn on scores.html then you get a file which shows things in hard numbers. It only shows the one turn and not the changes from turn to turn. Like this one...
http://old.dom3minions.com/~domgames/scores.html

And of course scouts are useful, spies are more specific, some spells are great, and an attack with some throw-away unit on retreat orders is the best.

Re: Army size graph
 

Definitely do not ignore the army strength charts. It is, in fact, the most important chart to look at.

It cant be denied that the chart only shows the raw number of units - and so can easily be skewed by large numbers of chaff or undead. But if you consider it with a critical eye, it will tell you a great deal about another nation. Of particular importance is the dip in the graph due to battles. If two nations fight and one's graph drops FAR faster than the other, then you know there was a clear winner. Additionally, if you fight with an enemy nation and inflict serious casualties on them, but thier graph does not drop significantly then you know that the damage you did has not outpaced thier production of new troops.

Re: Army size graph
 

Gandalf,

That is a neat feature. Can you advise how to get that file? Also, is it avalible in MP games or only if we chose it as an option?

Many thanks!

Re: Army size graph
 

Any game host can create those, with the --scoredump option. I've parsed the files and then generated 2D graphs from them.

Re: Army size graph
 

If you start your game with the --scoredump option then you get a new one generated every turn. Of course I think you have to be doing the hosting so if you are in a mp game its up to the host to generate it and make it available

Re: Army size graph
 

I've heard the AI cares quite a bit about those figures when deciding who to attack. If so, it's a good way to tell who's going to be targeted. If you're the guy on the bottom, be careful.

Does PD factor in at all?

Re: Army size graph
 

I think that the AI will choose who to declare war on based on the relative strength as shown by the army chart. So keep your numbers up or you will be ganged.

PD doesnt effect the decision to declare war, I dont think, but rather which provinces the AI will choose to attack once it is already at war.

Re: Army size graph
 

Mmh, I was sure I read somewhere (and in different places probably, as I was taking it as a fact :\ )that it was unwise to let a province, close to an enemy nation, without an army or 11 points of PD, as the AI would have seen this easy prey as a reason to start a war.

Of course I may be totally, horribly wrong ^^

Re: Army size graph
 

Tifone,

My experience is that this is correct. PD 1 everywhere gets me in wars with the AI a lot quicker than PD 10 (with pockets of 30). Or at least it seems to, I haven't measured it rigorously.

-Max

Re: Army size graph
 

It is my experience too. When I first started I didn't read the manual (or visited this forum!) and did not know about PD. So I had PD of zero everywhere and got wipe out by the AI's pretty quickly.

Re: Army size graph
 

Games with no graphs on are much more interesting. Makes getting those scouts out to everywhere and using scrying spells much more important... also makes diplomacy more useful.

And in my experience getting pd of 21 on border provinces with AI makes them much less hostile.

Re: Army size graph
 

Scouts don't replace graphs. Or vice versa. With graphs on, you still need scouts to find nations and see army movements. With graphs off, scouts can't tell you income, research, gem income, etc.
Spies and scrying can give you detail on individual provinces, but not on the empire as a whole.

Having graphs on tends to work against those who take the lead, which is, I think, a good thing. Though you could say they advantage those who develop in ways they don't track: Blood, clams, luck income, smaller elite armies, etc.